Attack on Iraq- Debate

[idiot00001]

He was pulling the same stuff 'till we kidnapped some of his family. Once he realised that we could and would do such things, he quit. It may not work with Saddam, but it'd show him that we could get into his country and do whatever we wanted without his knowledge. His experiance with the Persian Gulf War shoulda taught him not to mess with us.

 

I don't know whether that would bother Saddam since he has executed his own falmily before, but capturing some high ranking officers might work and also demoralize his army and give us information on nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons capabilities.

[Breton]

The UN is to political, look at Israel. They sit around doing nothing while that country is in at center of many middle east conflicts. Instead of doing something they expect the US to handle it.

 

It was more like UN tried to get negotiations and peace talk, but then the US comes in, supporting Israel and giving them weapons and the conflict was expanded so the US destroys all that UN have done already.

 

I don't know whether that would bother Saddam since he has executed his own falmily before

 

That is what the US goverment wants you to think

 

Admiral, Russia is no enemy of yours, that was a really long time ago since the cold war, and I have less respect for a country when they worship their flag.

 

I still want to know why you are so willing to trust Iraq. What has Saddam done to show he can be trusted?

 

I trust Saddam as much as I trust Bush

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Heh heh, good point.

[Admiral Odin]

Cazy_dog: If you do not like what I say, don't tell me to shut up, respond intelligently, with why you think I'm wrong.

 

JM Qui-Gon: Please don't say who is not an enemy to me, you don't know me.

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With that out of the way, saying that Russia is an enemy might have been to harsh, but they certinally are not a friend. (I will say here, when I say Russia I refer to the government, and not to the citizens). They give aid to enemies of the US, most of the time they oppose actions the US takes. Examples Kosovo, the Gulf War, I could go on.

 

It was more like UN tried to get negotiations and peace talk, but then the US comes in, supporting Israel and giving them weapons and the conflict was expanded so the US destroys all that UN have done already.

 

1. The UN, had a plan and it failed. It was rejected by the Arabs.

 

2. With out the backing of the US, Israel most likely would not exist.

 

3. The british also support the Israel, just like the US.

 

4. The conflict expanded because of the Arab community, they wanted to destroy the country, like I said before without the backing of the US, the Brits, and other countries, Israel wouldn't be around.

 

Don't believe me go here and read the section called history:

http://www.historychannel.com/cgi-bin/frameit.cgi?p=http%3A//www.historychannel.com/perl/print_book.pl%3FID%3D93781

 

That is what the US goverment wants you to think

That is what happened. Don't believe me, well more it has been documented enough, and by sources outside the US.

 

Other things you said:

1. Saddam has shown he can't be trusted, Bush has done no such thing.

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Want more evidence about the chem weapons:

1. British photographs show planes equiped with tanks that would allow them to spread chemical, or biological weapons. Now why would he have them, if he didn't have anything to put in those tanks.

 

Anyways, Bush is going before the UN, to presant all the evidence against Iraq.

[Clefo]

This is an interesting article that relates to the Iraq skankiness, and good for all you wannabe tacticians out there

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Cool.

[darthfergie]

Personally I don't like it that Bushy is already turning to Iraq. "We got bombecd by terrorists and we wupped 'em. Now for #2 on the list...eheheheheh."

 

Don't get me wrong though. I think we need to get Sadaam out of power. We should have done it a long time ago, but we need a Casus Beli (Reason for war).

 

Thus I DO think that we should establish Casus Beli through the UN investigations. Issue an ultimatum if they stop any investigations. They must be checked. They are still under agreement NOT to make any and are under strict military powerdown, but they seem not to notice this. It's like we never even had Desert Storm. Their military is still large. They still commonly shoot down our jets for the heck of it. Clinton had the last militaristic say in the matter with the bombings a few years back and I personally think that the bombings may need to be repeated or military action is needed.

 

 

 

BTW, Afgan screw up looms large on the horizon...(headline-"We changed governments, but we didn't change polocies.")

[Darth Homer]

Funny thing is, during Desert Storm, we tried on numerous occasions to assasinate Saddam...we missed every time...we got a crap-load of his doubles though. Just couldn't get the real one. He's a slippery little guy...

[Paragon_Leon]

erm, Fergie: bombing IS military action. Or do i misread your last post ?

 

This may shock you, but i wholeheartedly agree with military action against Iraq. This is a leader who has a track-record of deceiving inspections (remember the 'baby-powder-factory' ?), publicly SUPPORTING terrorism (Saddam pays the Palestinian suicide-bombers) and in general creating incitement in the region. We're talking about one of the key engines / regimes behind the trouble in the region.

 

Why is everyone insisting that America should be more actively involved in solving the middle east-problem, but when they intend to do it, they shouldn't ?

 

Just the rumblings of a dutch journalist who can't stand the own European hypocrisy any longer.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

*shock*Leon! *shock*

 

The closest to military action I would be OK with is like commandoe strikes to take out key positions.

[JEDI_MASTA]

*masta walks in with a fire in his eyes intending to MAYBE knock some sence into the people that dont understand a few key things and to keep their mouths shut about what they do not know*

 

Ok... i have a reputation of being the extreme right of the forum... a title I will uphold in this post :-D

 

First off, Im amazed our leftist hippie community dosent love CNN... its far too biased for my taste (to the left BTW)

 

I wish you people would grow brains and see that Bush is anything but an idiot, U do realize that NATO and the UN have FAILED MISERABLY in response to september 11 and the war on terror. SOmewhere in the nato charter *not sure where... and im far 2 lazy to find out* it says that an attack on 1 is an attack on all have you seen ANY of the nato troops doing anything in afghanistan? And now to the UN, they seep content to just let Sadam sit back and develop his weopons, unhindered even by the very inspectors that are supposed to have unrestricted passes to everything and everything that Sadam has. They fail in this department miserably.

 

 

 

Now to the fact that 1 or both of these leaders are MAD

 

In this corner you have George W Bush ha has a 70 some percent approval rating of his people, has stated time after time that war is not a good thing but when it has to be done it simply must.

 

In the other corner you have Sadam, who viciously attacks his own people, hides in caves, supports everything terroristic, is a radical Islam (religion is the worst thing to have a clash over because Heaven/Hell is ultimately at stake), has weopons of mass destruction witch he uses on his own people.

 

 

All of you are too afraid to say it... so you hafta be shown up by a 14 year old kid that breaks the truth to you and is going to watch with laughter as you try to prove my statements false.

 

*o i need say more... with pleasure*

 

To make the argument that troops will be lost and lives will be taken, the losses will be minimal for both sides, and would be even lower if Sadam would just step aside and let the UN do their job. You dont join the armed forces not expecting to have to give your life for your country. I will close in the immortal words of some dead guy, Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country (in this case the world)

 

Because the world is too blind to see the problem does not make the problem go away

 

*bring on the criticism*

[Havoc Stryphe]

Originally posted by JEDI_MASTA

*bring on the criticism*

 

Whew! You have shown incredible courage, and for that I tip my hat, but perhaps you were a bit... abrasive. Surely you are simply debating and not purposely inciting flaming, right?

 

Oh well, I guess this thread is about to become toasty!

 

 

*walks away quietly and quickly*

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Ok, then, critisism u shall get.

 

*clears throat*

 

Over on this side of the Atlantic, tons of coverage was done on US troops in Afghanistan. However (even people whatch CNN or whatever should know this), British troops were got tons of coverage too (tho not as much as American). The UK is a NATO country.*

 

Secondly, in an issue of Scientific American (note that this is an American magazine with patriotism and all), there was a review of some book an American wrote, about experiments on human subjects. There it says that the FBI admitted to using biological weapons in a populated area . Though this was a test to check the nation's readiness to a full-scale biological attack from us (the Russians ), it also means the US government used chemical weapons against it's own people . Besides this is genuine stuff, there is no evidence to support that Saddam has chemical weapons.

 

Lastly, are your sources reliable?

[Admiral Odin]

Evidence:

 

1.Recon pictures taken from British spy planes showing Iraqy planes equiped with tanks that can spray chemical and bio weapons.

 

2.During the Gulf War, and before we know that Saddam has Chemical and Biological weapons, they just didn't disappear.

 

3.IF he has nothing to hide, then let the inspectors back in.

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What Issue is that magazine, because this is the first I have heard of it. If it was true, I'm sure the press would have it all over. They love to blow the whistle on the gov. and cause possible scandals.

 

Finally, if this is true the FBI, was not trying to kill people, but to test readiness (most likely there wasn't even an agent used, but pretended).

 

Saddam on the otherhand, was out to kill the Kurds. That is a big difference.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

OK, this is like the only thing me and Admiral can agree on (exept that SW is cool ). Indeed, if he hasn't anything to hide, why doesn't he let in weapons inspectors.

 

Also, do ya want the number of that magazine. I can get it to ya and I won't post in this thread till I find it.

 

Also that was a spelling mistake when I said it was chemical weapons. I meant biological.

 

Also, agent it was not. 3 people died (I'll have to check)

 

Is the Kudar or whatever a rebel group? If it is, evil or not his intentions may be, he has every right to use them against rebels.

[JEDI_MASTA]

ok ok... so there were brittish troops in afghanistan ... last time i checked NATO is bigger than us 2...

 

and havoc... i didnt invite a flame war... it was just kinda like how you hold on at the top of a roller coaster

[Admiral Odin]

Originally posted by Crazy_dog no.3

Also, do ya want the number of that magazine. I can get it to ya and I won't post in this thread till I find it.

 

Also that was a spelling mistake when I said it was chemical weapons. I meant biological.

 

Also, agent it was not. 3 people died (I'll have to check)

 

Is the Kudar or whatever a rebel group? If it is, evil or not his intentions may be, he has every right to use them against rebels.

 

 

The Number isn't necessary, but check to see when this happened. It is a fact that some experiments were conducted on people (GIs), post WWII (don't know the exact date, around the Korean war I think). Since then, laws have been passed that have banned this (with out consent that is).

 

When I say agent I mean a chemical or biological agent. Basically chemical or biological weapon.

 

The Kurds are not a rebel group. They follow a different sect of Islam then Saddam. They are also in a different tribe. That is why they were killed. He killed innocent people, including women and children.

 

Also read up on how chemical weapons kill, it is very painful way to die.

[JEDI_MASTA]

I allways think of the best facts after i post... but in response to crazy dogs fact that there were brittish troops in afghanistan... that alliance was made... britain pledged help...

 

 

 

 

WHERE THE H*LL IS NATO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Darth Groovy]

Suadi Arabia is going to allow the US to use the land for Airbases for a strike on Iraq now. I feel something terrible is about to happen. Prayer would be put to good use now.