Psionic Jedi Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 The money is an object in the Matrix, they're earning nothing o.O If they werent killed then they would've been possessed by the Agents anyway, so it was better to be dead than be a shell for an Agent like that poor hobo in the Subway. S'long as their in the Matrix they are the enemy right? Just like fighting a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Ok fine "The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it." You can still discuss, but your bikering is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by teutonicknight You can still discuss, but your bikering is pointless. hehe all i want is a nice debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by teutonicknight Ok fine "The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it." You can still discuss, but your bikering is pointless. Was I listening to you...or was I looking at the woman in the red dress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Was I listening to you...or was I looking at the woman in the red dress? Look again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 AH! IT'S A MAN IN A DRESS!!! Seriously, think about it...would you rather get taken over by one of the Agents and shot by Neo/Trinity? Or would you rather be taken over by one of the Agents and get hit by a train TRYING to kill someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by Divine Spirit hehe all i want is a nice debate! Here is my debate: "The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Knight Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 morale + movies don't add so don't try to put them together, you guys are so stuuuuupid(not in a mean way) it would ahve been so lame if they didn't kill them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-[MotU]-Lyger|=- Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn "There is no spoon" 'NO! no spoon! Fork, or Chopsticks. There is no spoon.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Man sits in a restaurant with an order of soup. He calls over the waiter and says to him, 'taste the soup.' 'What's the matter,' the waiter asks 'is the soup too hot?' 'Just taste the soup.' 'Why? Is it cold, too salty, what?' 'Just taste the damn soup!' 'Ok,' the waiter gives in '...where's the spoon?' The man waves a knowing finger 'Ahaah, ahaaah!' Ok, that was besides the issue at hand but all this 'no spoon' bitnez called for it. Here's how I view it all: When going in to rescue Morpheus from the clutches of the agents time was of the essence. He was holding the access key to Zion's mainframe; the safety of the remaining human population rested upon this key not falling into the hands of the agents. Against the odds of a military guarded building and 3 agents (of which none had ever been defeated) there could be taken no risks in favour of a more morally correct approach. The stakes were just too high. Although these guards were not aware their opposition was in conflict with freeing mankind from the grasp of the Matrix they had to be sacrificed for the greater goal. The decision to sacrifice pawns is the curse of a leader in war. As for the dilemma presented to Neo concerning the death of either Morpheus or himself, the prophesy of the oracle comes true through and through, perhaps in a way she didn't forsee herself. This is revealed in her sentence, and I quote to the best of my memory 'I'm sorry, but it looks like you're waiting for something...another life perhaps, who knows.' To me that sentence is a clear reference to Neo being shot and killed (yes, killed, as in D E A D) before being ressurected by Trinity's loving kiss. As I see it Neo had to die to gain enlightenment to perceive beyond the illusion of the Matrix. The Matrix has a buddhistic theme to it; trancendence through enlightenment to a higher, truer state of being. In buddhism death is the door, which has to be entered to enter a higher level of the karmic wheel, Dharma I think it's called. With Neo's death the faith of Trinity is tested. In that moment she decides too fully believe in her personal prophesy of falling in love with the One. Her faith in Neo being the One because she has fallen in love with him makes her kiss him and trust in his resurrection. Morpheus gets his faith in Neo fully confirmed through Neo's death and ressurection. His faith actually never wavered but he and the others see the old prophesy begin its unfolding. In the world of the Matrix death is the illusion most difficultly overcome. Once that ultimate test is passed Neo has truly trancended to being essentially the One. At least, this is what makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Well I am a security guard and I don't like to see security guards wacked either, but it is still really cool watching Neo and Trinity bust up the joint all sureal and CG. Personally my favorite character was mouse. If you want to debate, let's debate what he was debating. If the matrix was real....how did the matrix no what chicken tastes like? Why does everything taste like chicken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Also I am surprised that none of you mentioned all the cops that got wacked in the beginning. They all had families too right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by Jubatus When going in to rescue Morpheus from the clutches of the agents time was of the essence. He was holding the access key to Zion's mainframe; the safety of the remaining human population rested upon this key not falling into the hands of the agents. Against the odds of a military guarded building and 3 agents (of which none had ever been defeated) there could be taken no risks in favour of a more morally correct approach. The stakes were just too high. Although these guards were not aware their opposition was in conflict with freeing mankind from the grasp of the Matrix they had to be sacrificed for the greater goal. The decision to sacrifice pawns is the curse of a leader in war. As for the dilemma presented to Neo concerning the death of either Morpheus or himself, the prophesy of the oracle comes true through and through, perhaps in a way she didn't forsee herself. This is revealed in her sentence, and I quote to the best of my memory 'I'm sorry, but it looks like you're waiting for something...another life perhaps, who knows.' To me that sentence is a clear reference to Neo being shot and killed (yes, killed, as in D E A D) before being ressurected by Trinity's loving kiss. As I see it Neo had to die to gain enlightenment to perceive beyond the illusion of the Matrix. The Matrix has a buddhistic theme to it; trancendence through enlightenment to a higher, truer state of being. In buddhism death is the door, which has to be entered to enter a higher level of the karmic wheel, Dharma I think it's called. With Neo's death the faith of Trinity is tested. In that moment she decides too fully believe in her personal prophesy of falling in love with the One. Her faith in Neo being the One because she has fallen in love with him makes her kiss him and trust in his resurrection. Morpheus gets his faith in Neo fully confirmed through Neo's death and ressurection. His faith actually never wavered but he and the others see the old prophesy begin its unfolding. In the world of the Matrix death is the illusion most difficultly overcome. Once that ultimate test is passed Neo has truly trancended to being essentially the One. At least, this is what makes sense to me. *stands up and applauds* I must say, that is the best explaination I have heard so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Did they have to kill those guards? They were doing the least expected thing, trying to take on the agents without hiding from them. After all, the Matrix is a computer program, so giving it data that it least expects, is something that may lead to events that will test the boundaries of the Matrix and what it can do. After all, the previous attempts against the agents were trying to keep away from them, or do things very quietly, so perhaps a degree of complacency was evident. My anology would be Sept 11 - the US had their eyes on events off their own shores that they missed an up front attack in their face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Groovy Well I am a security guard and I don't like to see security guards wacked either, but it is still really cool watching Neo and Trinity bust up the joint all sureal and CG. Personally my favorite character was mouse. If you want to debate, let's debate what he was debating. If the matrix was real....how did the matrix no what chicken tastes like? Why does everything taste like chicken? "Do you wanna buy some deathsticks?" That was Mouse too. Same actor at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 ok, new debate: On a scale of 1 to 10, how lame was the part where Trinity's kiss brought Neo back to life? I dont like this idea of love prevails! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by Divine Spirit ok, new debate: On a scale of 1 to 10, how lame was the part where Trinity's kiss brought Neo back to life? I dont like this idea of love prevails! ohhh puuuuhhhllleeeeaaassseeee.... I bet you didn't play kiss chase at school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by lexx ohhh puuuuhhhllleeeeaaassseeee.... I bet you didn't play kiss chase at school! mummy mummy, lexx is making me feel left out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Groovy If you want to debate, let's debate what he was debating. If the matrix was real....how did the matrix no what chicken tastes like? Why does everything taste like chicken? Mouse doesn't say everything tastes like chicken, he says chicken tastes like everything. How did the Matrix know what chicken tastes like? I reckon it knew the same way it knew what every food taste like; by analyzing the molecular components and the chemical setup of the food, then, like with everything else, simulate it. There is no magic trick or unexplained phenomena to what food tastes like, it's a simple matter of molecular configuration. I think Mouse refers to chicken being especially undefinable because chicken is very receptable to spices making it easy to have its taste vary greatly. Any meat doesn't really taste of much, but salt usually brings out what flavour it has (why it's popular to roast an animal in its own salty fat), and spices add.....well, spice. Damnit boy, you've gotten me all hungry now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by Divine Spirit mummy mummy, lexx is making me feel left out! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by Divine Spirit I dont want to sound like those whinging political correctness people but im just suggesting this as a theory! After watching the Matrix yesterday was thinking about the Lobby scene and i think its morally wrong what Neo and Trinity did. They shot dead many of those security guards who only had handguns and didnt look physically fit. Why did Neo and Trinity have to shoot them to peices when they didnt need need to? Instead they could have thrown sleeping gas canisters into the room or something, and then go in there and tie up the men! It doesnt matter if the alarm goes off becuase it went off in the original plan so its not as if theyve lost anything! Like many men, im sure these security guards had a wife and kids at home who will now remain widowed or fatherless thanks to the gun-ho attitudes of Neo and Trinity. Just think how much pain and suffering this caused the the family and friends of the security guards? Imagen how distraught you would be if your father was shot to peices just because he was a security guard! I think it would be ok for Neo and Trinity to kill the special guards because they were obviously better trained and had better armour and weapons. And in a different part of the Matrix story, the oracle told Neo he would be in a situation where he would have to decide between his life and morphius'. This event didnt happen in The matrix 1 because both Neo and Morphius survived so this means the event is likely to take place in one of the next Matrix films. Who do you think will die? Will it be Morphius, the more predictable person who we assume will be the one to die or will it be Neo, a big twist in the storyline and a far more unexpected person? Discuss Sorry I was too busy yelling "KILL THAT FAT LARDASS" to notice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 LOL!!!! Sorry I was too busy yelling "KILL THAT FAT LARDASS" to notice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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