ET Warrior Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Now when you first look at it, the obvious answer is yes. If he knew about luke he must have known about Leia. But he says something interesting in ESB. As Luke flies off to Bespin Obiwan Says to Yoda "That boy is our last hope." To which Yoda replies "No, there is another." It is implied by that exchange that Obiwan was unaware at the time of Leia, and only learned about her in after ESB. But in RotJ he acts like he knew all along that Luke had a sister when he's explaining that Vader is his father. Was obiwan 1. Unaware of Leia's relation to luke and anakin 2. Simply unconfidant in her ability to become a jedi 3. Sexist or did he just have a really stupid moment.......? Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 He was unconfident in her ability AND sexist imo. If Leia was trained as a Jedi, she would KICK A$$!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Ben Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 You took that from the starwars.com poll. But I'm guessing he just didn't know that Leia had the same force power as Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted September 8, 2002 Author Share Posted September 8, 2002 Yes, i did take it from the poll. I found it very interesting and thought i'd ask it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icepool Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Maybe obiwan believed Vader going against his son would have been more personal like a father and son relationship. Maybe he thought leia wouldn't have been able to bring out the good in him or something or wouldnt have caused as much conflict as seeing his son like he himself was and therefore he wouldnt be able to kill luke and this would give luke the edge to defeat vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icepool Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Just thought of something else. Maybe if you screw the EU universe maybe since they were twins luke was the dominent force carrier! Maybe leia got some but no where the amount to be strong enough to bring down vader! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Icepool you have a very good point but I do think the father& son is the best explanation. I mean she wouldnt of gotten the proper training that luke got cause of Obi-Wan being dead. Luke had the personality that best fits a Jedi. Leia is to calm and isnt the action type. She's a princess. Luke had a harder raising so that is why he was chosen. He was more like his father than his mother like Leia was to Amidala. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weapon X Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Originally posted by ET Warrior Now when you first look at it, the obvious answer is yes. If he knew about luke he must have known about Leia. But he says something interesting in ESB. As Luke flies off to Bespin Obiwan Says to Yoda "That boy is our last hope." To which Yoda replies "No, there is another." It is implied by that exchange that Obiwan was unaware at the time of Leia, and only learned about her in after ESB. But in RotJ he acts like he knew all along that Luke had a sister when he's explaining that Vader is his father. Was obiwan 1. Unaware of Leia's relation to luke and anakin 2. Simply unconfidant in her ability to become a jedi 3. Sexist or did he just have a really stupid moment.......? Comments? i think he meant that if luke died then leia wouldn't have been trained, yeah they coulda come back as spirits but i don't think it woulda worked, but luke was there to train leia, her kids (when she had them) and his kids (when he had them) to be jedi and then it just went from there, this is the only time i'm gonna bring in EU cuz i hate it, but if luke had died leia wouldn't have been trained but since he didn't die he was there to start a new jedi order and bring the jedi back into existence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 I'm thinking it's about the opposite of what Ratmjedi said. Leia isn't the calm type, she's the shoot first, ask questions later type. She was savagely tortured by Vader, do you think that if she were in Luke's shoes on the Death Star II that she would have held her hand instead of striking Vader down? I don't. She has too much of a temper to be a Jedi. Added to that she's a leader of the Rebellion, a building block for the New Republic, add to that that she's in love with Han Solo... Jedi can't hold that kind of social rank, Jedi cannot marry. She's completely wrong for a Jedi. She has the Force, yes... maybe she'll do in a pinch... but Luke's perfect for a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Well Jedi_Monk I guess that was what i was trying to go for. But if you look at the way they were raised it makes sense. Leia was raised in a good house on a big city and she was royalty. Luke on the other hand was raised on Tatoinne(Sp?) like his father. So Leia was a more shoot first then later. But if she would of gone through Jedi training then I think she wouldn't of struck down Vader. Remember that Luke was the gun ho type that just wanted adventure. After his training he changed and stopped being as reckless. Hope you agree with me Jedi_Monk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro The Hutt Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Well, I think the reason was that Obi-Wan said that Luke was their last hope is simply because, if someone isn't initiated in the ways of the Force at all, they probably can't see nor hear Jedi spirits. So if Luke died Obi-Wan couldn't just go ahead and contact Leia for a second and ask her to come to Dagobah for training in the ways of the Force, not to mention that he'd have to explain the entire deal on how she's Force sensitive to her IF he would even manage to contact her. (and a small note: about the Jedi cannot mary thing, apparently that was just the rule around the Episode II period, the rules of the Jedi order have changed around alot over the many millenia of it's existance, and besides *semi-spoiler alert* Luke gets hitched to Mara Jade*end spoiler* ^_~ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Halcyon Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 I think he didn't know. It will make ESB coherent. Yoda is the only one, and bail organa could too (he sends leia to tatooine to get Kenobi AND luke. i hope that in EP III we will not see Leia being born, and Anakin becoming vader (i mean a scene where Vader is built) to not spoil the other movies to people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Hm... I think Pedro might be on the right track... never thought of it before, but Ben's spirit did seem to become more and more evident as Luke grew in the Force. When Luke was first contacted by Ben's spirit, it was only a voice in his head. The next time he saw Ben, Luke was nearly unconscious, on death's door and probably that much closer to the spiritual side of the Force (in other words, a near death experience connected him with Jedi heaven--where Ben is--and let Ben talk to him). Third time we're back to just hearing Ben. Fourth time, after Yoda's training, just before Luke leaves, Ben makes his first real manifestation to Luke when he's not dying. So maybe Leia, without any training in the Force, wouldn't be able to be contacted by Jedi spirits. It's a very interesting theory. However, Luke is not married to Mara Jade... that marriage is EU, and has absolutely no bearing on this movie discussion. As far as we know, canonically, Luke never marries and his New Jedi Order is just like the Prequel-era one. Now, Ratmjedi... I don't really know... Leia was a tomboy... her upbringing doesn't restrain her. Emotionally, she's been through hell, not just with Vader's torture, but with Alderaan being destroyed and Han being frozen in Carbonite by the end of ESB. Luke's also had a hard time, the death of his aunt and uncle and Ben and Biggs... but the Skywalker twins are two completely different people--it's a study in how environment and events effects a person. I still think that there's something... deeper about Leia's pain and hatred of the Empire than Luke's. Also, we can't say that Bail Organa sent Leia to Tatooine for Ben and Luke... her message was to General Kenobi, if she had gone to Tatooine herself like she planned, she might never have come into contact with Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckcsaber Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 I think when Ben said "that boy is our last hope" he meant hes gotta stop Vader and Palpy soon or things are going to really go bad. So if Luke died there would not be enough time to train Leia to be able to stop Vader and Palpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bodle Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 To answer the question, yes Obi Wan knew about Leia but as said earlier she wouldn't make a good Jedi, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taos Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Originally posted by ckcsaber I think when Ben said "that boy is our last hope" he meant hes gotta stop Vader and Palpy soon or things are going to really go bad. So if Luke died there would not be enough time to train Leia to be able to stop Vader and Palpy. Well, to make it short and sweet....I agree, good point ckcsaber! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Halcyon Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Originally posted by Jedi_Monk Also, we can't say that Bail Organa sent Leia to Tatooine for Ben and Luke... her message was to General Kenobi, if she had gone to Tatooine herself like she planned, she might never have come into contact with Luke. Ben says to luke: 'You must learn the ways of the force if you want to come with me to Alderaan'. and then, 'is for you she has come for, i'm too old for these things'. I think Bail sent leia to get kenobi because kenobi wans the only one who knew about luke and should have been training luke during that time (think that owen didnt let to happen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Actually he says, "I need your help Luke. She needs your help. I'm getting too old for this sort of thing." Kenobi was probably the only Jedi that the Alliance knew survived the purge, which is why he would have been the one they turned to for help. I'd guess the Alliance knew nothing of Luke (other than possibly knowing he'd been born). As for Leia, she was already a key factor in the Alliance so she probably wouldn't have had much chance to train anyway. Granted they might have started her training when she was young, but given that her "family" was in the public eye, it probably wouldn't have been wise for Kenobi to train her since the Empire would likely discover and execute him. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mez1109 Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 I think its ALL 3, NOT REALLY. Obi Wan must know who both Leia and Luke are, as he probably hid them from Vader, Specially Luke who he watched over as Old Ben Kenobi. When Like brings R2D2 to Ben(or Obi Wan), he sees the princess Leia's message, who addresses Ben as Obi Wan. As you can remember before-hand, Ben says: I have not heared the name Obi Wan since before the clone wars (or something like that). The point???? Well if Leia addresses him as Obi Wan, the name Obi Wan has not heared since Episode 3 of SW, then obviously Leia has never seen Obi Wan personally, only as a Legend of a Jedi. Obviously only R2D2 knows Obi Wan, while C3PO must have damaged his memory, or it was erased by purpose, we find out in 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro The Hutt Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 Well he said "Obi-Wan Kenobi...... Obi-Wan Kenobi.... now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time... a long time... " (and I think Leia knows about the Ben Kenobi name since when Luke gets her out of prison he says "I'm here to rescue you I'm here with Ben Kenobi." To which Leia yells.. eh .. replies "BEN KENOBI WHERE IS HE?!" ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 More likely Leia just instructed R2 to "Deliver this message to Obi-Wan Kenobi at these coordinates." She knew where he was, but that doesn't mean she's ever seen him since she was too young to retain the memory. This is what happens in the ANH radio drama... yes, it's EU, but this is one occasion where I'll go along with it. and I think Leia knows about the Ben Kenobi name since when Luke gets her out of prison he says "I'm here to rescue you I'm here with Ben Kenobi." To which Leia yells.. eh .. replies "BEN KENOBI WHERE IS HE?!" Well Kenobi seems to be a pretty rare name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mez1109 Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 I really don't know what to reply to those messages. OH WELL. How are you doing Jedi_Monk, you too ET Warrior, haven't spoken to you two for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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