Your thoughts on running/instant lunge

[Aoshi]

Originally posted by cjais

Aoshi: What you described is the exception that proves the rule - You rely on lunge to win and proved me right. Yet relying on supermoves to win the day is just silly IMO.

 

Here's the deal on the lunge and running lunge: A lunge can give upwards to 80 damage FYI. No, that isn't "a lot", but compared to the puny yellow and blue swings, it's monstrous. I suspect you play with red stance mostly since you feel 60-80 damage isn't "a lot".

 

Lunge is unblockable, how fun is that? You cannot strike the lungist from the front, or the sides - how fun is that? You can only strike him from behind,

 

uhh. actually a friend and i have tested this out alot. lunge does approximately 65 damage with a full hit and penetrates defense. you can hit a lunger from anywhere except for like a 10 degree margin in the front. ie. if the lunge comes straight on you just sidestep and then lunge back. i've fought a buncha people in just this manner and it's not really that hard to do. on a side note, why the hell wouldnt you use super moves? if you just run around and use regular swings you will get owned 99% of the time. if you dont believe me why dont we look at this from a logical perspective?

 

light swing = 25-30 damage

med swing = 30 damage

heavy swing = 70-110 damage (cept the buggy horizontal swing that sometimes passes through your body without causing damage)

 

now, special attacks

lunge = 65 damage unblockable

med special = instant kill unblockable can rotate in midair and when you hit the ground. leaves you very vulnerable

dfa = instant kill, unblockable, leaves you very vulnerable

 

when i duel (and i'm not a duelist i'm a ctf player mainly) i only use light swings, lunge, med special, red special, red swings, kicks, throws. i hardly ever use red swings unless i know that my opponent will die soon and i can take whatever damage he can give out. i only use light swings when im facing another lunger or when i'm behind the person. i use lunge if my opponent has just used a super move, i've baited the person into chasing me, the person is ducking and is obviously gonna try to do the lunge, the person is on the ground from a kick, the person rarely strafes. dueling is all about faking your opponent out and timing your attacks. if you continually get hit with lunge then you really suck at faking people out, and if you cant hit them back then you really suck at timing your attacks. if you can do neither of these then i suggest you go play something else cause you will suck at this game no matter what. if you only run around with medium or something swinging like a moron then either you have no common sense, or you are a complete n00b that doesnt know wtf he's doing. when will you people learn that you have to use what's available to you. if you dont wanna do this then create a server and restrict those moves that you are too ignorant to learn properly. then you can have fun owning other ignorant people that are in your ballpark and leave the skilled people to their own games.

[Aoshi]

at the risk of possibly making you guys better i will tell you the most powerful combo in the game. kick- lunge - throw (if these are enabled. if only one is enabled just do x-lunge-x). kick does 20 damage and sometimes knocks your opponent down. even if it doesnt your opponent normally gets a bit confused and is still holding the forward key. you can take advantage of this by lunging directly into them and then holding down the throw button afterwards. you may notice that after a lunge your defenses are momentarily off cause you are wobbling around trying to recover. if you immediately throw it is always unblockable causing additional damage. all in all this combo does approximately 115 (kick - 20, lunge - 65, throw - 30)damage thus being an almost instant kill and almost unblockable combo. try it out sometime and you will truly see the usefulness of lunge.

[thehomicidalegg]

ok my stance is that some1 cannot constantly kill you with running lunge unless he's spamming it, in which case he'll be too predictable to be much trouble. if nothing else when he lunge spams, throw spam him.

 

for the moves damage, i believe blue stance does 24 damage, while the down chop can hit twice and do 48 damage

yellow does 30 damage some of the swing hit twice thlike that sweeping move, NOT backsweep.

red does 55-60 damage but if you keep the sabre in one's body long enough you can do hit twice or more

lunges hit twice, 30 damage each, how ever you may receive more damage from stationary sabre

yellow dfa does about 80-130 damage depending on where you hit also stationary sabre damage if you twist around

red dfa does 200 damage if hit directly plus any additional stationary sabre damage

front kicks does 18 damage thats pierces armour

sidekicks does 20 damage that pierces armour

throw does 30 damage

not sure bout backsweeps never used them since july when 1.04 came in

 

your defalt hp is 100 plus shields so you wont die from 1 lunge(while u will from both dfas and some red attacks) unless you got scraped by your opponent before that, on which case you will be extra careful upon dropping to or below 60 hp. When you survive his lunge you can do your own lunge or whatever other strategy to continue fighting. another thing dont let anyone run directly to wards you, cuz not only can they do the running lunge but a lot of the cases they do the front flip kick. stopping them running towards you in a direct route will limit their opportunities to catch you offguard by lunging. Another thing is that most ppl dont have the timing to press those three buttons at once, and they either stop or walk(for an instant) before lunging. that is a sign to you to avoid and counter before they actually perform the action.

 

sidekicking lungists are always fun.

[thehomicidalegg]

while i understand alot of you saying lunge is powerful enough in someways (eg unpredictability, defence breaking, in combos), I have to agree with teutonic knight that there are ways to counter that after you've been bitten once.

 

try the move on other players see how they counter it(good ones so they can counter:))

[C'jais]

At the risk of making you guys better at posting in a forum, here is a little tip:

 

Stick to the subject.

 

This has already gone too far out and you're now discussing using specials or not, and discussing the regular lunge - for some bloody reason.

 

I only play NF SO duel, so there's no silly force powers to take into account. If there were, I'd happily use them.

I use mainly yellow stance (95% of the time) and in normal matches never use specials. I won't call myself a master, but I will def'ny go as far as saying that I'm no "n00b". I win more than I lose, and that should be enough.

Well, now you can all decide if you want to believe it's possible to win without using a single special and only sticking to yellow stance, or if you'll discard it as a blatant lie.

 

And if I witness any more silly personal attacks, I will delete this thread.

[Sith Maximus]

Next time state that it is a no force duel match that you are in and that is what you want an opinion on. All of these remarks are based on an ffa or force enabled server. People just want to state how and why the lunge works and why it is a good tactic. You cont come across as someone who wants powers nerfed because you do not like them.

 

A no force duel server might as well be a game of "Connan" the barbarian. You are a Jedi and should heve force powers to deal with people. And sure you can win duels in a single stance,. Thats because you have only one opponent to deal with.

 

On the whole a lunge is not even in question in a duel. Yes it can do damage, but as you say you are no nOOb, then you should know how to get out of the way.

 

People like to use specials, and the lunge is a favorite. Its quick, easy and destructive. The whole point of combat is to saurprise your enemy and give them damage. thats why this tactic works and is so destructive.

 

If you want to delete this thread go ahead, but do not delete something because you do not like the answers or attitude your getting. People are sick of the complaining of moves or the mere hnit that another one is too strong. Raven reads this crap again and we will lose another tool. So delete it if you must, but it is simply an abuse of your power to do so.

[leXX]

Originally posted by Sith Maximus

A no force duel server might as well be a game of "Connan" the barbarian. You are a Jedi and should heve force powers to deal with people.

 

Actually, alot of ppl prefer NF SO duels because they want a good saber fight and nothing else. That is our preference so don't be dissing on it ok. I prefer a good saber fight to a battle of the forces any day, I think it requires alot more skill than pushing someone away from you everytime they get too close or chucking a bolt of lightning at someone. NF saber duels take alot of skill and timing. You have your preference, we have ours, leave it at that.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Sith Maximus

If you want to delete this thread go ahead, but do not delete something because you do not like the answers or attitude your getting.

 

Yes, I will delete the thread if I don't like the attitude that I'm getting.... it should be obvious. With the blatant flaming and personal attacks, I'd say that I had grounds for deleting.

 

With that said, sorry for not stating what gametype it was I wanted responses based on. But what this thread was about, was the running lunge spammage I've witnessed lately - maybe you haven't squared off against someone good with this, but I'll tell you that I've fought against the guy placed No.1 on the NF duel ladder.

 

I have *nothing* against the usual lunge, even if spammed to death, simply because it's easy to strike back at the lungist and it leaves a weak point open.

 

Yet the running lunge, as you all stated, there's nothing to do against that except sidestep like mad. And as true as that is, it doesn't exactly leave you in a position to fight back.

 

On another point, my experience thus far with lunges, is that it's very hard to hit the lungist in the side, sometimes also in the back. Try for yourself, no doubt you've all witnessed the same bug with the DFA: The guy doing the special is somehow able to block the attack with his body, seemingly. Several times I've struck someone lying on the ground after a DFA, and he has miraculously only taken 1 damage (or blocked it), even though my saber was buried deep within his body.

 

Now, my opinion on *running* lunges still stands: They eliminate the usual weaknesses of doing a lunge.

 

So then, if you all believe it's a fair move etc, then fine with me - maybe you could even try and tell me how to defend myself against it, other than the obvious sidestep "technique".

 

If you can't do that, then it's still ok with me, as it probably won't beat explaining the stuff ingame during a duel.

 

But don't come here and give me any slack about "just dodge" or, the even better: "you must obviously be a n00b, f00l" and "you are stupid".

[leXX]

Jais, there are alot of ppl in these forums who lack the brain cells required to have an intelligent conversation so they resort to personal abuse.

[Sith Maximus]

Originally posted by leXX

 

Actually, alot of ppl prefer NF SO duels because they want a good saber fight and nothing else. That is our preference so don't be dissing on it ok. I prefer a good saber fight to a battle of the forces any day, I think it requires alot more skill than pushing someone away from you everytime they get too close or chucking a bolt of lightning at someone. NF saber duels take alot of skill and timing. You have your preference, we have ours, leave it at that.

 

I duel all of time on my server, in fact we duel most of the time. As you know in a ffa duel all you have is jump as a forcepower. I love to duel! I am not sure if by "no force" they mean just that. No force at all , just saber skills. I think you need to have jump in order to dodge and weave correctly, without that you are not a Jedi.

 

I have great respect for duels and duelists. I play for fun and not on any ladders. I do not have time for that sort of thing.

 

The lunge would be less of a threat if the backstab damage was back up to where it was in 1.02 or 1.03. The 1.04 patch kills this move and in turn makes the lunge more deadly. Before if someone came for a lunge you could jump over them and backstab them as the executed the lunge. Now, as stated, you’re in a bind. You must roll or strafe just to get out of the way.

 

But with the insane over blocking in regular 1.04 all you really need to do is not hit the attack key as they come in for that lunge. You will block it. Crazy I know but true, stop and block then counter with a lunge. Also the above stated backstab is no good anymore on a lunger because of the blocking in 1.04.

 

You have the ability to block EVEN if your in the middle of a move! This is why it is hard to hit them in the side or rear. Sometimes you will sometimes you will not. This is because of the random generator that is now used even more by the game engine in 1.04.

 

The reason for this is because of all of the statements about moves being too powerful. I am sorry if I got out of line but it just drives me nuts when people "seem" to be complaining, yet again, about the "newest" so called spammed move.

 

I welcome anyone to come over to Crazy Yoda and try out the modified settings that I use to make the saber combat more deadly and realistic. Every single person tells me that the way I have it set is the way it should be. Next to promod, nothing is more deadly. And I play Promod so I do know what I am saying.

 

In a duel a single hit should kill a minimum of 75% of the time. Why? Because you have a lightsaber not a wooden stick. Cjais I do not know if either yourself or Lexx have taken any form of swordfighting or kendo. But if you do (implying you have not) you will learn that certain moves bring a maximum amount of damage in one hit.

 

The preferred way to win a sword/kendo fight is in one hit. This was the way that I think Raven intended the game to be. But after all of the complaining they have patched it to make players feel like they are in a "movie" fight by removing any move that they see as being too powerful. But some moves are like that. The best way to bring balance back to the duel, and eliminate ANY move from being too powerful is to balance it out more.

 

It is possible with the right settings and a little bit of common sense. Again I am sorry to if I upset you, or Lexx, or anyone with my comments. Its just my opinion that a true “no force” duel is a little silly. Perhaps this is because of my limited understanding of the ladder matches and the settings used on them. So have a nice weekend and stop by if you like for a duel with me. Ask for DarthMaXiMuS. Same goes for you Lexx and anyone who has not tried out the modified Jedimod settings.

 

By the way I never have lightning turned on in my server. Its a total joke of a power. I do not want it nerfed, I just find that it brings the wrong kind of crowd in to my "mostly" duel driven ffa server. That "no force" symbol keep sout all of the real hardcore lightning freaks.

 

Also even in a force enabled server I only ever use drain and saberthrow. I drain anyone who lightnings me and will throw at anyone who kicks me too much as they get close. I prefer the use of a saber to make my kills.

[leXX]

Apology accepted Sith Maximus. I thought you meant that you thought a NF duel was completely pointless but you have cleared that up and yes we use jump but that's it. Thanks for the invite, I might just pop by one evening.

[Rad Blackrose]

I return to this forum for only a distinct amount of time, and why do I always happen to see that which brings the game down.

 

The moaning about certain specials since 1.02 has continued to reign supreme in this forum, and that moaning has reduced gameplay to ravers with glowsticks quality. Once again, I see that little annoyance manifest right here in this thread.

 

People who can do the running lunge are a high percentage of the time legit players. Hell, it is the easiest thing in the world to do. Now imagine what would happen if there was no such thing as rolling. I bet the amount of moaning there would jump up exponentially.

 

1.02 was the perfect game, minus the fact that DFA was spammed and drain was a bit overpowered. The reason why 1.02 lost its glory was because people came here and moaned for the stupidest reasons in the world. That is what caused the BS era, and instead of people adapting, they just moaned some more. Now we are at what I stated earlier: ravers with glowstick quality.

 

I'm sick and tired of the people whining about moves that everyone can do.

 

I'm sick of practicing a move or style over and over again only to find that I have to adapt or completely rewrite my style due to a bunch of f'ing whiners on these boards as well as elsewhere.

 

I'm sick of not being able to use a good sense of manual dexterity and evasiveness, while a new person in blue stance can hack away just as effective.

 

While the patches and their problems were in part by Raven, it was pretty much at the fault of the PEOPLE WHO WHINED ON THESE GODDAMN BOARDS.

 

That is the main reason why I left these boards and the game, returning to my NWN guild and reforging the love I have for a girl I will one day meet. This game had addictive qualities, but then someone just HAD to be goddamn lazy and start whining about how some person could hand his ass to him with the same move, over and over again, and could not provide a counter.

 

All I have to say is:

 

If you don't like the move being done on you for the damage you are taking:

 

1.) Uninstall now

 

OR

 

2.) ADAPT

 

(This rant brought to you by an overworked, pissed off Blackrose)

[thehomicidalegg]

Cjais: if i have offended you, then i appologise, for i have no intention of doing that. I just get pretty excited when people discuss that they want some moves nerfed, etc. like i said its harder to hit some one with lunge, even running lunge if you are not in a direct line with him. let me rephrase that. if some1 runs towards you facing your way, and you are running backwards or forwards, he'll hit you much better than if you are circling around. it really hard to explain what i mean(i'm doing a pretty ****ty job) but the thing is that dont give him a front target to lunge at. always angle in. prevention is better than cure, it may be less optune for him to do the running lunge if he is ingaged in a intense close up melee.

[Darth Kaan]

No matter how many patches are made, people will always find something to complain about. Any move that is spammed is EASY to avoid, because you know what's coming.

 

Drain, DFA, Backstab, lunge, will the whining ever stop?

 

Not Likely.

[Homosexual Ewok]

I know most of you are NF duel players, but from a FF duel player's point of view, the lunge is probably the most effective "saber related" attack available.

 

When it comes to FF duels there are only 4 saber attacks worth using due to the Heal/Drain factor (anything that scores medium damage or less can easily be made irrelevant with a quick Heal/Drain).

 

1-Heavy overhand chop.

 

2-DFA.

 

3-Medium finisher.

 

4-Lunge.

 

 

 

1-Heavy overhand chop is pretty much only used as a follow up on a knocked down opponent. Granted most people have figured out that a Force push will repel the incoming attacker, but there are still those who fail to use that defense.

 

2-The DFA is best used as a follow up after scoring a knock down with a kick, doing it under any other circumstance is pure suicide against a skilled opponent.

 

3-The medium finisher is best used in "cramped" spaces, using it out in the open will get you kicked out of the air 99% of the time.

If an opponent is close and/or "boxed in" by a wall or crate, use it. Beyond that you do it out in the open; you get put into spec mode really quick.

 

4-Lunge, the perfect counter attack (saber wise, kicks still rule).

Its fast, the recovery time is not too bad and it does enough damage that it can not be "ignored" like standard saber swings in a FF duel.

 

 

My opponent winds up and launches at me in a DFA, I side step and...

 

Heavy swing? Nope too slow. He could recover and side kick off me before the swing connected.

 

 

DFA? Nope, too close and too slow on the wind up, he would move before I was in the air.

 

 

Medium finisher? Nope, too slow and chances are he will side kick up into me before the saber arcs down into him.

 

 

Lunge? Perfect, not only can I land 60 (although it never really seems to do more than 40) damage, I can flip away before he has the chance to kick off me on the recovery.

 

 

Now that's not to say it is a good offensive move in a FF duel, a simple Pull+kick or a saber throw+Pull breaks right through it, but saber wise it is the (tactically) smartest counter attack available.