ArtifeX Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 As a thanks to all of you who are being so patient for the release, I've decided to let the cat out of the bag on my new saber vs. guns balancing system. My thanks to everyone who's been helping me beta test so far: ZeroWingZero, Lazarous, Fatalstrike, Azraelt, and some I'm probably forgetting. Big things that are in Beta 3 so far: The balance system (below pics); The style trumping system; Double-glow RGB sabers; Tons of little stuff. Here's a couple of gifts for all of you who have been helping me support ProMod: Let the conjecture begin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Holy f***! *wets pants* *looks down* Uh... Damn you Artifex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 http://members.rogers.com/zwz/pics/JO/supersecret.jpg MUHAHAHA! That's right! i h4xored myself into ArtifeX's server! Or i know the password... btw: v3 rocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Holy Chit! The method shown in those pics is brilliant for balancing things out. Me thinks JKII is about to get a whole lot better! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Warrior Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 and the download link is...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break_dF Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Is kicking double jump or single?...in promod of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariners2001 Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 WOW! Can't wait to find out how much the system affects the guns... Must...... have..... mod.... now......Why you gotta torture us like that? Is it in final stages now with touch ups and stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kstar__2 Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 looks cool artifex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 You're a genius Artifex. It's amazing how simple the fix for balancing things out is. We all just accepted that in order to wield a lightsaber, we'd have to put skill points into it, lest we want to fight just with crappy blue stance all day. But we took forgranted the fact that we could also wield over 10 weapons, all of which were different designs that functioned differently from each other, especially the higher up models, with maximum proficiency. I could fire a blaster all the way across a level and accurately bombard someone with it, but I wasn't able to master certain lightsaber styles just because I wanted more force powers? Your system, as you've promised from the beginning, brings all skills and puts them into the equation. Two things though. First, what about that new force power. I'm guessing it's not going to make it into version 3. Also, i'm assuming the jetpack, which will also come later, will also take skill points, or perhaps that will be at the maximum levels of gadgets. If so, I think that's a pretty good price to pay to have, considering that at the end it's like seven points. That's a whole lot of skill points, leaving you pretty much with one good gun skill and then a whole lotta mess. Anyway, your system finally allows the true 'jedi wannabe' be a master of the jedi ways, and not have to worry about 'you have to use all tools sam' out doing you because he not only has your same master force configuration, but he likes to use all the guns too. Now, if he wants to rule with guns, he can't share the same mastery of the force at the same time, meaning that I can finally play my way and be a threat to his way. He can't just have both ways and choose which one is easier or more efficient. Lastly, please give me the force power. If anything, with all this new system stuff, I'd love to try out a little new force power stuff. You da man Artifex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted October 27, 2002 Author Share Posted October 27, 2002 If I don't add any more functionality, then b3 is about 95% done. I have a small server side bug left to fix, and support for saving your weapon configurations in the same manner you save your force configurations. No, i'm not going to add a separate list box for force configurations. I'm going to just use the one that's currently there. You'll end up with two files for each "configuration": one for the force powers, and one for the weapons, but with the same name and two different file extentions. Both files will load when you load from the force config list box. Glad you guys are pleased. I'm probably not going to put the new force power in before I release 3.0 (no more betas!). I'm going to release a 3.1 version very shortly after 3.0 that will include the new force power and the new jetpack. After that, I'm going to work on getting some Saga support, and putting some cool Saga maps together. I consider the core game now pretty much fixed. I don't see anything left over from 1.04 that's still broken. --aside: man, that pushable blaster bolt thing was so stupid...--- Anything that I'll be adding from this point on will be to solely add to the gameplay value. Twin sabers and model scaling will factor in at some point, but not before the jetpack and new force power. The athenagt.net tournament going on in Italy right now has been beta testing for me a bit (if you can call 5,000 people a beta test), and from the feedback, they're having a ball with the current build. ZWZ, Laz, or Fatal, feel free to answer anyone's questions about the gameplay that you've seen so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Originally posted by Break_dF Is kicking double jump or single?...in promod of course Kicking and sidekicking are single tap, while wall kicking is double-tap. The difference in promod beta 3 is that you can backflip off the wall as long as you are still going up, which leads to spending the first 5 min doing nothing but wall jumping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Well now I can no longer contain myself. I know I told you to take your time, but when do you think beta 3 will be released. At this point, no one is playing beta 2 or 1 or whatever. there's only four servers running it, all of which i can only get a good ping from on a like a friday night. I need to start playing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Belive me, you'll want to wait to put more stuff in, the more things added, the more interest will be sparked and the more servers will run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonces Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Yeah, I'm very intregued by this new balanceing system, but extra time will only make it that much better I wish this game had more coders with a great vision like you do ArtifeX, there are far too few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 I tryed to learn C! i really did! I had to settle with beta testing and making a bot for his server which neither of us know how to use. Anyone know how to add custom bots to a deticated server with min players set at 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonces Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 heh, I can't code a lick either, I just don't like all that logic, besides, I've been an artist my whole life so I figured why not learn how to do art in 3d? no idea on the bot problem, I think all bots have to be client side too so you probly have to include them in the mod. I've made plenty of custom bots, but I'm not sure exactly how to do what you guys want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 The bots are done, and they will only be on ati's server, the problem is we don't know the commands for adding custom bots to the server, only random ones. The one i made are part of the Promod "staff" and "help" people out. heh heh heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 I thought Artifex was supposed to be trying to win the CTF Pro's over with Promod, so why go the wrong way? All the CTF Pro's have spent months building up a mastery in ALL the weapons, now in order for use to stand a chance in a CTF match we have to forfeit nearly all the weapons and powerups just so we can use the necessary force powers? I haven't put any force points into saber (except level 1 offense to get the actual weapon) for several months, i've spent ages refining my force config. As intriguing as this mod looks, I don't see it winning over the CTFers with its current direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 as of now, you can be: a lv3 jedi with lv1 guns, (slow, primary only) a lv2 jedi with lv2 guns,(inproved, secondary) a lv1 jedi with lv3 guns,(regular) and jetpack (pending) with lv4 guns (kickass) Heh, it may seem guns get the bum deal out of this, but me vs artifex proved that either the new guns rock or he sux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Why don't we just call it Version 1.05!!! NOW, why am I not playing??? Oh! that's right, it hasn't been released..... C'mon! gimme, gimme, gimme! Originally posted by zerowingzero the more interest will be sparked and the more servers will run it. You make a good point, but right now we don't need more servers running ProMod. We need MORE players on the servers that are already running ProMod. Yeah, I want to see more servers running it, but lets give some props to the guys who have kept ProMod going on their servers even though their servers have been empty for the most part. From the moment I started playing beta 1.0, I could tell that ArtifeX was on to something significant that the guys at Raven had missed (I have never felt that JO was finished. I think Raven had to hurry up so that JO could be released with EpisodeII ). I think ProMo---errr Version 1.05 could be the important thing to happen for JO since the release of JO itself! And I wish JO, the JO editing community -who have put in so much work making great maps, skins, and models- and ProMod, a long and substantial life. I also want to give a shout to the good folks and Lucasarts, and Raven for releasing the source code, so that things like ProMod can be created that will add new life and new dimensions to their games! How 'bout it guys? You help the community, the community helps you! Now how about releasing the animations or the SP source? Looks great ArtifeX! Can't wait to take it for a spin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 In response to the being good at ALL weapons, keep in mind, while the players are good with ALL weapons, there's really no way to balance those weapons out without limiting what you can use, or making everything have a long range, explosive secondary ability. Promod has certainly gone a different way about things, and I think it's for the better. First, it will get rid of the common "put my points into speed and jump, ignore all saber skills, have max defense force measures, charge with guns stradegy". You can't beat that setup, it's the best way of doing things, unless you exchange the pull push thing for absorb, or better yet, add it in. You can't balance that system out. By it's very nature, if players want the best possible performance, it's max force defenses, speed, and your favorite explovsive gun of choice. People say you get good at all the weapons, but that's really saying, "I have good aim with all the weapons, I use the lightsaber as a shield mostly because that's what it's best at, but in the end we're all using the flechette at high competetive levels". As I said before, we've all taken forgranted that you need force points in the saber ability in order to defend and attack, and yet we just didn't care that you could also pick up every other weapon in the game and use it like a madman. In CTF, tons of people, at least the ones who most often excelled at CTF, or had half a brain, would have only one level of saber abilty. Why have more, it isn't going to do much against the other weapons and the speed and defense abilities everyone posseses. But you may also be right, CTFer's now may not like that style of play. But in my opinion, that's an indication that they aren't seeking Promod, and probably don't need it. 1.04 is just fine for that kind of action. If you like stronger sabers and more speed as well, try JK2++. I like the direction promod is going though. If you want your high speed and explosives, you have to sacrifice a few things. It was getting ridiculous that guns were so heavily favored. It's not that they did too much damage, had too much ammo. It was just that you got all of their fantastic abilities, and then you didn't need the force, at least offensively. So you just pump up your speed and defenses, and fire away. This balance system will force you to make choices. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathain Valtiel Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 ..I have only one thing to do now. *Proceeds to worship ArtifeX* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ I thought Artifex was supposed to be trying to win the CTF Pro's over with Promod, so why go the wrong way? As intriguing as this mod looks, I don't see it winning over the CTFers with its current direction. My first thought is that ArtifeX isn't trying to win anyone over with ProMod. It's not his job to win people over, it's the games job. What I see ArtifeX doing is trying to correct the serious flaws in the games original design. I haven't played verson 3.0 yet, but as of version 2.0, I was impressed with how I was actually able to use a light saber as a primary weapon, and not just be target practice for every gunner out there. Keep in mind Detritic, you aren't the only person who has worked for months to fine tune their skills... Secondly, it appears to me, that ProMod isn't saying there is anything wrong with mastering ALL of the weapons. What it's doing is asking you to specialize. You CAN have it all, just not all at once. It makes sense that you don't get to play both light and dark sides of the force. And even within the two sides of the force, you have to specialize by distributing points. The philosophy behind that is pretty simple: You aren't allowed do EVERYTHING well at the same time. What do you think the game would be like if you could have max points for every force power (both light and dark)? It seems to me that any gunner can have any gun any time. The philosophy that has guided Force powers has never applied to guns. Well, now it does. This doesn't scrap the skills you've worked to aquire in the game thus far. It looks to me like it's asking you to develop and fine tune them to a higher degree. This way, you don't need to rely on every gun to win. Instead, you can be a formidible opponent with few guns -or even just one gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 The flaws are only evident in the game if you play it for the sabers. The majority of saberists play sabers because they like the whole role-play feel to it, hence they are in favour of having point-allocations to as much as possible, ie to create a unique character with unique abilities. Gunners however play in a different way, they utilize the level and the weapons to their fullest potential. This is precisely why the majority of levels, no matter how good they look aren't favoured by Gunners. Its very hard to make a map that works well for FFA since too many people focus on eyecandy. In my time i've made about 10 maps, only one of which I think was of high standard, and that was a JK1 map for MLP4. This new weapons point-allocation system is bringing the game closer to being an rpg and further away from being an FPS. Hence the reason why you will never be able to satisfy both the gunners and the saberists. Now don't get me wrong, I love RPGs, especially ones such as BG2, Fallout etc, I will probably buy KotOR and SWGalaxies if I can get my hands on a broadband connection. But I don't think multiplayer JK2 was ever meant to be an RPG, if it wasn it wouldn't have been based on the Quake 3 engine. I mean just look at the first screenshot, almost nothing in Saber abilities, yet choosing weapons, all of which are essential in a CTF game (yes, even the bowcaster) means you literally are about as useless as an inflatable dartboard in CTF. JK2 is about utilizing Saber, Force and GUNS. Kyle is a mercenary and supposedly a very good marksman. JK2 is about KYLE, so therefore the game is about the saber AND the guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 I missed out a point, Imagine you have decided to be a gunner, now in order to survive in CTF you need level 3 in pull and push to prevent being knocked to your doom. So that's already some points you've got to find from somewhere. Now, at least one enemy will have Force Speed, so you need force speed in order to stand a chance. What i'm getting at is that if the CTF community were to play this mod, they would nearly ALWAYS choose speed, rage, pull, push and jump over any specific weapon. However the CTF community LIKE using guns, so as a result there is no incentive to play the mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.