Theory to the Ending

[SamNMax]

Originally posted by Yufster

No no no. Let's make this a little more SIMPLE. When the VOODOO INGREDIENTS ARE MIXED, GUYBRUSH FAINTS. Let us PRETEND Monkey Island ended there. IMAGINE the ridiculous THEORIES that would float the net. I'm not saying it DID end there. Jesus. Don't start picking holes in theories on a theoretical situation. I was using it as an example!!!

 

I'm not going to say it again.

[RicardoLuigi...]

I'm not going to say it again.

 

What the heck? Then don't. You've already posted your idea about 5 times, so you've gotten your point across. If you believe that we are so wrong and you're just going to keep posting the same thing, just don't participate. All you're doing is racking up posts for yourself. So just don't post it again. We acknowledge your idea.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I'd just like to say that Jorrin's article is a tad glib and skates around it's obvious problems with a nod and a wink.

 

I posted this as a comment to his article, but no-one actually seems to be reading anyone elses theories, so I'm posting it here in the hope of remind people why Jorrin's "conclusion" is total nonsense (but only because of the contradictions explained below).

 

To Jorrin Quest:

 

Well done Jorrin (QueZTone/Ralgath) Quest, a great article! I completely agree with all of your evidence! (You forgot to mention that the dog's name on Phatt Island is WALT (as in Disney!) and Guybrush's parents are in the "Lost Parents" room (just like the signs in Disneyland) and that Melee Island is "closed for repairs".)

 

I think RemiO said it best though: The "kids dream" theory MAY have been the original intention but they made it so it could be taken BOTH ways (REALITY or fantasy).

 

Two things support the "reality" theory (which you cleverly skated around :

 

> "Chuckies" glance at the camera at Big Whoop (where he's suddenly all "voodoo" again) which, basically, says "I am REALLY LeChuck - Muahaha!" and of course:

 

> The cut back to Elaine on Dinky (AFTER Big Whoop, no less) where she says: "Gee, I hope LeChuck didn't put a SPELL on Guybrush or anything".

 

So basically it's clear that MI1 and 2 left it OPEN to interpretation... both arguments contradict so openly that there CANNOT be ONE clear explanation.

 

It's clear to me that the makers wanted to leave it OPEN -- you can CHOOSE whichever theory you prefer, but NEITHER of them is 100% conclusive.

 

Which of course means your CONCLUSIONS are a load of old tosh. QED

 

Just my 2c!

 

~ JW

[Yufster]

That's the best theory I've heard so far. I just wish Ron had stayed for Monkey Island 3 so we could know for sure whether Guybrush was a kid or not. I guess we'll have to accept Monkey Island 3 4 and 5 when it's due out, as the future of Guybrush, therefore not a child.

 

It's really annoying though. It's like, you know, I read Gormenghast (Don't ask me to spell it right) by Mervyn Peak when I was 14, and the first two books were BRILLIANT, and then he went mad when he wrote the third book. So the 3rd book was like it was written by somebody else, and sorta sucked, so you got the feeling what was happening to the characters shouldn't really by happening to them, and that the story ended at part II. It just wasn't the same. But SOME ending is better than NO ending, so all hail MI3. I may weep openly.

[Joshi]

Let’s all just agree to disagree. I think we'd all feel better if it was true that Guybrush wasn't just some stupid kid in a theme park. fact of the matter is that Guybrush is a fictional character and therefore we ourselves can mould him into anything we like and make him able to do anything we like in our own head (has anyone forgotten the phenomenon of fanfic, check them out wherever you can find them, http://www.worldofmi.com has some good ones). many people here including me have been coming up with theories of what exactly happened there and yes there is evidence pointing to this all being a dream in a theme park, but we can easily disregard that as just funny jokes of two worlds colliding when they're not supposed to, in other words, hilarious jokes. Please remember that we did exactly that in MI1 and MI2 up until the point where the ending happened. When we first played the games, we were all easily able to think that this was all real. The ending of MI2 came along and completely messed that up and I think if Ron were able to do mi3 we would get a better view on things now instead of debating over what was meant to happen.

 

Originally said by our God, Ron Gilbert

"So, with The Secret of Monkey Island™, I wanted to create a game that had the same flavour, but where you could step off the boat and enter that whole storybook world. The pirates on Monkey Island aren't like real pirates, who were slimy and vicious, the terrorists of the 17th century. These are swashbuckling fun-loving pirates, like the ones in the adventure stories everyone grows up with."

 

which means that Ron gilberts was trying to tell a pirate story, not the story from inside the head of a small boy in a theme park, he got the idea from a theme park, not used the idea of a theme park.

 

Also, you went all the way to the Scumm bar for this when you could have looked at home here. This was a mixnmojo interview with Ron.

 

Just Click Here

 

I haven't been able to read all of it (the server went down before I could get past the first page, I was lucky to get this) but one part of the first page said.

 

Originally said by our God, Ron Gilbert

Mojo: Will we ever see a more "adult" adventure games from Hulabalee Entertainment, or are you going to focus solely on your younger audience?

 

Ron: I would love to do another "adult" adventure game. My dream is to buy the rights to Monkey Island and do the true Monkey Island 3. I'd call it "Monkey Island 3a: The Secret Revealed or your Money Back".

 

Told you. I think there is more monkey island reference in there somewhere, but I’ll be damned if I can find it now. Maybe later.

 

The debate goes on.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Hmm, I'm not really disagreeing with anyone, I'm just pointing out some more things that are missing from the article that (almost) everyone seems happy to ignore.

 

Damned strange if you ask me.

 

~ Johnny

[Joshi]

Im guessing you were all too lazy assed to actually click the link and read the artical or you would have come across this little snippet from the second page (the page i couldn't get to at the time because of server problems on mixnmojo).

 

but i'm a nice guy so instead of you actually scrolling and clicking (i know, hard isn't it) i'll just post it here.

 

The Interveiw

Mixnmojo: Okay, I’ve gotten a lot of requests and bribes to ask this question, so here it goes… in MI2... what is up with that ending?

 

Ron: See my previous answer. I had a plan. Money Island 3a. Write your congressman.

 

in other words, he had already planned for there to be an MI3 and wanted the story to continue. it would haev been quite lame if it just continued inside the head of a small boy so of course there would have been an explanation. and talk about straight from the horses mouth, Ron Gilbert Himself said that, can't really argue can you.

 

and if you're wandering what his plan for Mi3 was, you'll just have to read the artical 9or better yet just read ahead)

 

And again

Mixnmojo: You’ve mentioned many times before that you had a story for your own Monkey Island 3 in your head. I’m not going to ask you tell it here (but if you want to, I wouldn’t stop you!) However, do you think you ever will tell fans what you had in mind? Or is that a secret never to be revealed?

 

Ron: See my previous answer.

 

in other words, we can only hope that ni the future, he will buy the rights to monkey island and all will be revealed.

 

also, Crazygod had a theory abuot the whole brother issue which may heklp some. Guybrush and lechuck are brothers because they were both created by the same programmer. but not brothers in the story.

[Remi]

Originally posted by Neil Joshi

in other words, he had already planned for there to be an MI3 and wanted the story to continue. it would haev been quite lame if it just continued inside the head of a small boy so of course there would have been an explanation.

 

See my earlier post in this thread about reality vs. fantasy. Not to say that it might have changed over the past ten years of course.

[Joshi]

i don't know, i suspect there would be an explanation ffrom ron to please all of his audience, he's just good that way. i mean the reality may be that guybrush was dreaming the entire thing and he is just a kid, but wouldn't we be more pleased if that wasn't the truth. and i thin ron see's that so it would only be logical that gubyrush wasn't just a kid in an amusement park. please rememeber that to the most imaginary mind (and we can't get farther than ron) all this evidence people ahve been throwing at us could just as easily be circumstantial evidence.

[Yufster]

Okay I concede....

 

Lets face it. Nothing in this game makes sense. Sorta. Use staple remover on magnificent yak. use Monkey with Pump. use Jolly Roger with Pot. Need I say more? The only thing that makes sense is USE SHOVEL WITH X.

 

So probably, the solution to the end of MI2 made just as little sense. But if we played it, it'd probably be like, "Oooo that's so obvioussssss!"

 

I mean, for instance, where else do you use a rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle, other than a cable to cross to the next island?AND it works both ways!!!

 

I've given up usng logic to figure it out. I think Remio and Neil are right, and the closest to a good answer. Especially the part about LeChuck and Guybrush being Brothers.

 

Damn, Ron Gilbert is SO SELFISH. People are commiting suicide EVERY DAY over this puzzle. Well, that's a slight exaggeration. Well that's not true at all, actually. Actually, hardly anyone cares. BUT STILL.

[Joshi]

i'd have to say that, going off on a tangent, whoever came up with teh rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle was pure genius. and then it made a cameo in MI4 which i thought was great tribute to ron.

[RicardoLuigi...]

in other words, he had already planned for there to be an MI3 and wanted the story to continue. it would haev been quite lame if it just continued inside the head of a small boy so of course there would have been an explanation. and talk about straight from the horses mouth, Ron Gilbert Himself said that, can't really argue can you.

 

What do you mean, "can't argue"? He said absolutely nothing except "see my previous answer". So what if he was going to make a MI 3a, that tells us nothing. How do you know there would be an explanation? Maybe it would be as a small boy, you have no idea unless you are Ron Gilbert himself.

[Joshi]

you're just looking at what he said and taking it as what it is, not what it could be. think about it. someone asked him the question we are all asking each other right now, what was the deal with the MI2 ending? and he said that he had planned for there to be a MI3 or MI3a or whatever. and also, think about it, if the whole monkey island game was meant to be inside of the head of a small boy, then it was finally reveileed, or at least opened for questionning at the end of MI2. we didn't know up until that point that he was meant to be a kid. so if he were to make and MI3 as inside the head of a small boy or as a small boy or whatever, then at that point we would know and therefore ti would be as good. we'd just be thinking, 'oh no, another monster from the dead to test little guybrishes mortality. oh hang on a minute, he can't hurt him because it's all in his imagination.' it wouldn't work would it. so either rons interpretation of MI3 was meant to be that guybrush was and always will be the pirate we know and love, or guybrush is just a kid and things happen to this kid now that aren't in his imagination,but still have some referance to the other games (the only story i can think of from the top of my head is that he has no brother and from his imagination lechuck comes alive along with elaine and the voodoo lady and undead pirates begin to infest his world and suddenly a whole loada crap happens). think about it.

[Yufster]

Go NEIL! go NEIL!

 

I agree completely. Ron said (A) There was to be an MI3 and (B) The 'Guybrush is a Kid' theory is cold. Why are we still arguing? We may not know what the real story is, but we know what it ISN'T, and it ISN'T that Guybrush is a kid!

[Remi]

Originally posted by Yufster

Go NEIL! go NEIL!

 

I agree completely. Ron said (A) There was to be an MI3 and (B) The 'Guybrush is a Kid' theory is cold. Why are we still arguing? We may not know what the real story is, but we know what it ISN'T, and it ISN'T that Guybrush is a kid!

 

I really don't want to go namedropping, especially since I hear some stuff second-hand, but the "Guybrush is a kid" has been confirmed by people working on the games.

[Yufster]

But not Ron.

 

It's christmas. Don't burst my little bubble.

 

Besides, if you can't prove it (IE show us the interview or whatever) that's as much use as a newbie comin' on here and claiming Ron Gilbert told her the secret and it's that guybrush is an alien.

 

Oh hey! That's a pretty good theory!

 

No, I'm just tired.

[Remi]

Originally posted by Yufster

But not Ron.

 

It's christmas. Don't burst my little bubble.

 

Besides, if you can't prove it (IE show us the interview or whatever) that's as much use as a newbie comin' on here and claiming Ron Gilbert told her the secret and it's that guybrush is an alien.

 

Oh hey! That's a pretty good theory!

 

No, I'm just tired.

 

Ron Gilbert is - and please read this carefully - not the only one who knows the secret, or what the ending means, or whatever. Note that there were more than one designer on the games, and a few dozen people working on it. Now read between the lines.

[Sarah]

Jake logged in as Sarah for a sneak attack (that or I'm just using her computer)...

 

If Ron ever actually told what his secret is or whatever, he'd practically have no reason to exist Its his claim to fame: The "only one" who knows the true ending (though this is false, yet another rumor).

 

Certainly Gilbert at this point knows exactly what he woul do if he had a Monkey 3. He's had eleven years to mull over eveything in the first tw. That doesn't mean anything.

 

Lots of people besides Gilbert (even besides Gilbert/Schafer/Grossman) know what's up with the original storylines in the games. Yes, even the guys who made CMI knew what was up, but took it in a bit of a different direction intentionally (you can still see, especially from CMI's intro, that they were very aware of the influences present in the original games).

[Remi]

Bah, here I'm trying to be sneaky yet open about everything, then Jake comes in and behaves... less sneaky. ¬ ¬

[Yufster]

Well maybe. I don't think the MI games where the same without him to be honest, and that goes to show that he had the biggest influence on them. Actually I should shut up cuz I only ever played MI3 once, for a very short time

[Sarah]

Er, huh? I actually don't know anything about the CMI guys. Ackley and Ahern, worked with Schafer and Grossman on DOTT and Full Throttle, were at LEC for years, etc. Obviously talked to them a bit. Have said in interviews that they loved the first MI games. Think about it.

 

Then they go and make a Monkey Island game with obvious weird supernatural stuff (which was lacking from EMI) and, dare I say, Pirates of the Carribean references (also lacking from EMI)... you would think that all of that combined could lead someone to think that maybe they knew what they were doing and probably knew some other stuff as well (hint: The Secret!!!!).

[Sarah]

Originally posted by Yufster

Well maybe. I don't think the MI games where the same without him to be honest, and that goes to show that he had the biggest influence on them. Actually I should shut up cuz I only ever played MI3 once, for a very short time

 

What about Schafer and Grossman, the other two writers of the dialogue puzzles and story? They didnt work on 3 or 4 either... Surely they had a big influence on the original games and storyline too...

[ThunderPeel2001]

This is all a moot point: The fact is that they left MI2 completely open to be taken as the person playing it chose to. I'm not saying this because I can't face the idea that Guybrush is really a kid (although it did sadden me when I first played it over a decade ago!) but because it's completely undeniable!

 

The stuff in Quezone's article cannot be considered the complete truth when, after the game has finished, we cut back to Elaine Marley on Dinky Island -- ON HER OWN. This isn't Guybrush's fantasy anymore... because he isn't there! Also the same can also be said when "Chuckie" goes all "voodoo" BEHIND Guybrush's back! Again, NOT part of a child's fantasy... because he didn't see it!

 

Does this mean that MI2 WAS completely real after all? Well, I personally think you'd be ignorant to disregard the weath of evidence to the contrary... So where does that leave us?

 

Quite simply: Whereever the hell you want to be! They left it OPEN for us to decide!

 

That can't be changed by anyone. MI2 came out in 1991, it has been set in stone since then and no amount of debating is going to change it.

 

Believe what you want to believe, no-one can PROVE it otherwise because it isn't supposed to be PROVABLE.

 

~ Johnny

[Joshi]

okay, so i'm not going to start naming names (because i can't remember them all) but all of you who soley and whole heartedly believe in guybrush just being a small kid. why do you believe in this so much and why are you trying so hard to convince us all that this is the truth? this is a geniun question so please answer it.

[Yufster]

And now for something completely different. Why the hell am I a corley motors engineer?