obi Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Allrighty folks, I know most of you have been following htis story of the Raelians and CLONAID. The deal is, the say they have cloned a human. These people who believe that humans were made by scientists cannot show proof, however. What are your thoughts on the subject? Links: http://www.clonaid.com/ http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,57001,00.html http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/12/30/human.cloning/ Frankly, I think they're nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mex Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 They are nuts.. No one can clone humans, its impossable. Oh and by the way, Obi you posted 2 threads by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by obi-wan13 These people who believe that humans were made by scientists cannot show proof, however. These people? Are you referring to the "Raelians"? They believe life was seeded by aliens, not scientists. And no, they cannot show proof of that, but no religious sect/cult have been able to do that (and by cults and sects, Christianity is also included). Cloning? It had to happen, but reproductive cloning is utterly pointless. Stem-cell cloning is not, however. They are nuts.. No one can clone humans, its impossable. Of course it isn't impossible - think before you post, Flanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SettingShadow Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Well, those guys are sick, cloning humans, thats actually, SICK. A clone would look just like the originall host etc, how would that be for the "clone"? This is the most sick of it all: from some sicko "Cloning will enable mankind to reach eternal life. The next step, like the Elohim do with their 25,000 years of scientific advance, will be to directly clone an adult person without having to go through the growth process and to transfer memory and personality in this person. Then, we wake up after death in a brand new body just like after a good night sleep!" Raël disturbing, just disturbing that they can even consider to do those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Squater Well, those guys are sick, cloning humans, thats actually, SICK. A clone would look just like the originall host etc, how would that be for the "clone"? Why is it sick? Are identical twins "sick" as well? And no, clones wouldn't look completely like their "hosts", nor would they think the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Squater Well, those guys are sick, cloning humans, thats actually, SICK. A clone would look just like the originall host etc, how would that be for the "clone"? This is the most sick of it all: disturbing, just disturbing that they can even consider to do those things. Obi, I was thinking of AOTC when I saw that too. A clone army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mex Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I can see it now Terminator 6577: When human-clones strike back Then all the robot humans start killing the real humans and a guy has to go back in time to kill them b*tches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SettingShadow Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Cjais Why is it sick? Are identical twins "sick" as well? And no, clones wouldn't look completely like their "hosts", nor would they think the same way. No Identical twins arnt sick, but theyre natural. But the fact that they want to create human beings with technology disgust me, and how fun would it be being a clone? propably, they would get attention their entire childhood (maybe life) just for being the first clone to be created. Some people would love that, some would hate it. And that thing about die and then just wake up in a new body is IMO sick, I may of course be wrong but I dont think anyone would really want eternal life (ok maybe some but the most I think dont). And just because we have that technology to do it, does it mean we should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted December 30, 2002 Author Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Cjais These people? Are you referring to the "Raelians"? They believe life was seeded by aliens, not scientists. And no, they cannot show proof of that, but no religious sect/cult have been able to do that (and by cults and sects, Christianity is also included). I wasn't referring to their beleifs, I was referring to them cloning. They can't show proof they have, because they won't give out any info. :\ about me posting two threads by accident, the server had a hiccup and gave me a database error. I love server hiccups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-s/<itzo- Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 i think cloning is possible but the state of our technology is not that advance to achieve clonning just yet. they were just yankin our key chain plus they're a cult so you definetly know they are up to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by obi-wan13 They can't show proof they have, because they won't give out any info. :\ A third-party scientist is soon going to prove whether what they did was real cloning or not. i think cloning is possible but the state of our technology is not that advance to achieve clonning just yet. Explain Dolly, and a boatload of lab-mice. Cloning is very possible, and the technique for doing it is just the same as for animals. they were just yankin our key chain plus they're a cult so you definetly know they are up to something. Yankin our key chain? Every religion is a cult. Watch where you're going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted December 30, 2002 Author Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Cjais Explain Dolly, and a boatload of lab-mice. Cloning is very possible, and the technique for doing it is just the same as for animals. Ah, but Dolly's clones had birth defects that would not allow it to live beyond a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by obi-wan13 Ah, but Dolly's clones had birth defects that would not allow it to live beyond a few days. Dolly's clones? Dolly was the sheep cloned, not the one they made clones off, as far as I know. And Dolly was perfectly healthy, she died of a disease completely unrelated to cloning (the English name of it escapes me). But you're still right - currently, cloning takes many attempts before getting it right, and as well as the odd miscarriage, birth defects etc. Those problems are probably going to be solved as we learn more about it. Yet, I find the idea of reproductive cloning ignorant, with regards to the world's overpopulation problem. I can't see it bringing any good to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pisces Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Not only that but when the clones also suffer from various other problems. Dolly's clones have aged prematurely, have severe arthritis etc. and they are still quite young for sheep. To think a human 10-year-old clone having those problems because someone decided to clone the original is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted December 30, 2002 Author Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Cjais Dolly's clones? Dolly was the sheep cloned, not the one they made clones off, as far as I know. And Dolly was perfectly healthy, she died of a disease completely unrelated to cloning (the English name of it escapes me). But you're still right - currently, cloning takes many attempts before getting it right, and as well as the odd miscarriage, birth defects etc. Those problems are probably going to be solved as we learn more about it. Yet, I find the idea of reproductive cloning ignorant, with regards to the world's overpopulation problem. I can't see it bringing any good to the world. Wowsa, you're right! I need to go watch more of one of them 24 hours a day news channels. I do remember hearing some sort of clones dieing of birth defects. I am sure of that. I ain't goin that crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegetto Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 the Raelians? LOL! i just heard about those guys earlier today when i was chillin with my cousin. he told me about this group that thought their leader was an alien, and he goes to interviews dressed in alien attire. what an idiot! it really makes you worry about the sanity of some people...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-s/<itzo- Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Cjais Explain Dolly, and a boatload of lab-mice. Cloning is very possible, and the technique for doing it is just the same as for animals. Yankin our key chain? Every religion is a cult. Watch where you're going. i was refering to human cloning. human genes are much more complex than animal genes. "yankin your chain" is a terminology for decieving (lying). and about the cult comment no not every religion is a cult. a cult is a religious group whose practices and beliefs differ from those of the dominant or mainstream religions. and i think you didn't get what i meant. Some cults are clearly dangerous. They provoke violence or antisocial acts or place their members in physical danger. A few have caused the deaths of members through mass suicide (remember People's Temple, 913 died) or have supported violence, including murder, against people outside the cult. i'm just saying there are some cults out there who commits this senseless acts and i after i've seen this on the news, i know theres something about to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 1.No Identical twins arnt sick, but theyre natural. But the fact that they want to create human beings with technology disgust me, 2.and how fun would it be being a clone? propably, they would get attention their entire childhood (maybe life) just for being the first clone to be created. Some people would love that, some would hate it. 3.And that thing about die and then just wake up in a new body is IMO sick, I may of course be wrong but I dont think anyone would really want eternal life (ok maybe some but the most I think dont). 4.And just because we have that technology to do it, does it mean we should? 1. Naturality doesnt make a flying **** of a difference(sorry for the language). Really,what's the difference in a clone and a twin? None,besides the way it was produced(really,really,minor if you ask me). Also,a clone has alot of good stuff that comes with it. You can take away diseases from a bloodline,and just combine the one(two) DNA(s) of the parent(s). Also,what about if the couple couldnt have kids naturally? Does that mean they cannot have thier own children?(And they want a kid of thier own DNA,not a orphan). 2. Hmmm. It seems it isnt the clone's fault for the attention. Mostly,it's us "naturally created" humans who will do most of the trouble. 3.Um..I think you got the internal life thing wrong. You dont actually become immortal(your conscience(sp?) doesnt), you go "immortal" via your DNA clone,ect. like a child. 4. Yes,that's one of the biggest flaws of humanity. We have great technology,but we use it for evil. Splitting of the atom? Great,but used for destruction(A-Bomb and Nukes).(Sure,they were used to end wars,but still you get my point). Same with cloning. We can use it for great purposes(organs, un-diseased children, and children for those who cannot reproduce naturally),but can and proboly will be used for evil,sadly. *ahem* To think a human 10-year-old clone having those problems because someone decided to clone the original is wrong. Bad point,in my opinion. It's the same natually born. To think that a human 10-year-old clone having aids because someone decided to have a child is wrong. See my point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Human cloning is not just making new people, it has tons of medical purposes, for example when someone loses their arm, it is possible to grow a new one by cloning, but they can't get their arm back because of all the people who still relatates cloning with mass-producing monsters in creepy labratories. Also, just think of the new things scientits would learn, just by trying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by -s/<itzo- i was refering to human cloning. human genes are much more complex than animal genes. no we aint .... we are no more complex than sheep ... just different also it doesnt matter how complex the genes ... we dont actually copy them ... we just nab em from a cell and put em in another cell (of an embryo) ... which then grows into a baby ... with the cloned genes cest tres simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I've met these people, that is to say, people who believe in the raelian movement. I've also talked to them, from what I've observed, they don't have a true philosofy, this movement chooses to replace God with aliens and subject the idea that we were created by those aliens. It's interesting, but not very deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reb Starblazer Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I don't normally join in these debates, but I just want to touch on some things. Personally, I think cloning is a good idea. It could be a useful technology, if we could only get over ourselves and actually put it to good use. Imagine, someone has been diagnosed with heart disease, and they are told that they have months, maybe a few years to live. In this time, a new heart could be created, cloned from his own. This heart may eventually suffer the same fate, of becoming infected with heart disease, but it will most likely last just as long as the original. And, as it is an exact genetic replica of his own, it will be accepted more easily by his body, than a donor heart. A clone is something that has the exact same genetic structure as another. This, is also a definition of a twin. Twins are naturally created clones, nothing more. Twins, are not the exactly the same people, and generally hate to be treated as such. DNA usually doesn't make a lick of difference when it comes to who the person really is, their personality, their likes, their dislikes, heck their "soul". We are more than just our genes, we are shaped by our experiences, and our own choices. Don't it make you sad to know that life is more than who we are? As for eternal life, that's just strange. The people who want to live forever, are usually the same ones who can't find anything to do on a rainy afternoon... As I said, cloning is a good idea. Whether it will become practical, or even useful, is entirely different. But right now, people making clones simply because they can, that I don't agree with. As R. Buckminster Fuller once said, "Humanity is acquiring all the right technology, for all the wrong reasons." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weapon X Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 cloning is not sick, it is in fact a good way to actually build an army (insert jokes about me watching AOTC too much here) but seriously, why waste the lives of 1000's of different americans that knew a life outside of the military and have fear, why not clone people who are in GREAT physical condition, that are very agile, strong, fast, etc. and train them from the beginning how to shoot and fight hand-to-hand, it would be a great way for an army, because alls they would know was how to kill and we would get wars over with quick and we would only lose the copys of people, while the hosts have the option to stay safe at home and just give their "blueprints" to make another one it's also a good way to see how a baby would've been if it hadn't died of a miscarriage or something else like that, parents would no longer have to deal with losing a child forever but to think that you can clone a body and just transfer everything over and it'd just be like waking up from a nap or something like that is just stupid, if i was cloned he would have his own personality no matter what happened, there is no way around old age, there is no way to transfer someone's unique personality over to another body and have it be the exact same person, THAT'S impossible, but cloning isn't, and imho it's a great thing, because it's a revolution in humanity and i have a feeling that it'll advance (in the DISTANT future) to the point where it gets like AOTC or Multiplicity, either half the time to grow them, or it'll be instant, either way, we'll see in time, i've wanted them to start cloning people ever since i heard of dolly the sheep, cloning: a beautiful thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by ep2 Anakin cloning is not sick, it is in fact a good way to actually build an army (insert jokes about me watching AOTC too much here) but seriously, why waste the lives of 1000's of different americans that knew a life outside of the military and have fear, why not clone people who are in GREAT physical condition, that are very agile, strong, fast, etc. and train them from the beginning how to shoot and fight hand-to-hand, it would be a great way for an army, because alls they would know was how to kill and we would get wars over with quick and we would only lose the copys of people, while the hosts have the option to stay safe at home and just give their "blueprints" to make another one Um... 1 Army of Clones + another army of clones = Big war Sorry,but clones,if on both sides,dont end a war quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehomicidalegg Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Cloning technology that we currently have is only at its infancy, with developments and progress being achieved every year that passes. Presently there are many faults with the technologies, and thus faulty clones have been produced. I have no doubt that once the technology has been fully developed or advanced enough that such problems would not exists. However, i cant see human cloning being associated with anything but trouble. The problems it brings surely outweigh any advantage they may bring. Unless, there are some drastic circumstances, totally unforeseen this day of age, occurs that strictly demands the need for human cloning, I believe this path should not be explored. Genetic engineering, Yes, Human Cloning, No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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