jediduo Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 *shaking head* No, no, no. I think you misread me, TG. (Actually, I probably didn't word it well.) When you said that "dating gives you experience for dating, like where to go and where not to go, what to say and what not to say, and what to do when", that's exactly right. Dating and marriage are two different animals. I know this. I'm just saying you need experience in dealing with the opposite sex (dating) before going off and getting married. Sherack in the post above me provided a great explanation for what I'm trying to say. *bangs head on wall* Why *smack* can't *smack* I *smack* make *smack* them *smack* understand? *smack smack smack* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Sherack, i disagree (of course, eh? ). If you don't get married and stay together then how can you call it true love? Sounds more like a passing daydream. Jediduo, prepare yourself for a rant. Dating isn't the only way to interact with the opposite sex! But the belief that it is is one of the major problems in our society. Far too many people think that a guy-girl relationship has to be more than what it is, a friendship. Its that kind of thinking that makes girls think they have to go out with someone to be popular, or have friends. Thats what causes them to wear short skirts and revealing shirts, the belief that is they aren't a guys girlfriend, they aren't anything at all. Thats just wrong. The proper way to treat a lady is to befriend her, make her realize she's who she is, nothing more or less. Being a friend to a girl is a thousand times more usefull than dating will ever be. Sure, you'll take your wife out, but not every night. Don't forget, you have to live with your wife too, and that means every night. If you don't know how to befriend her, how to treat her, how to get along with her, then your marriage just went down a hell hole. Dating can teach you the things i mentioned in my previous post, but thats not how you live your life or your marriage. Dating merely teaches you how to handle special occasions, if even that. As opposed, friendship teaches you everything you ever need to know about the girl herself, and your parents can teach you what to do in marriage. Dating isn't good for anything but treating kindly the girl you love, and if you don't love a girl then why are you dating her? Is it because you want to look cool to your friends? Or dare I say sex? Girls don't deserve that, that is using them. If you date and you don't truly love, then what other reasons are there? Fun? If so then why do you have to date, why not just be friends? Then at least you don't have any pressure or exclusiveness. Girls have more delicate emotions. You may be just dating for the heck of it, but chances are they aren't. No girl deserves to have her heart broken, no one does. Would you break it "for the heck of it"? Sherack? If you truly honor a girl, be her friend. If you find your true love, be her friend. Any girl can be your date, but if you plan to have a sucessful marriage, then you better be her friend. *Note: Don not take offense to the above, I'm generalizing. I can't speak for your personal life, for i have no knowledge of it, I only know your opinions as expressed in this thread. Please don't be angry. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jediduo Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 So, what do you do? Go straight from being simple friends to spouses? It seems to me that you're saying dating is wrong because it might not result in marriage. Dating is supposed to be the prequel to marriage. If it doesn't work out, are you saying that it automatically means that you are using the girl(boy)? That is what you seem to be saying. *resumes head-smacking* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Rhett Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 For someone who claims to have no knowledge on the subject, you sure have come to quite a few of your own conclusions on the matter, Tie. You also speak as if they are the only conceivably correct ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 *cracks knuckles....shakes head mumbles something about men* Some of the things you guys have said I feel are true and some of the things you guys say makes me mumble stuff. So here I go... "Being a friend to a girl is a thousand times more usefull than dating will ever be. Sure, you'll take your wife out, but not every night. Don't forget, you have to live with your wife too, and that means every night. If you don't know how to befriend her, how to treat her, how to get along with her, then your marriage just went down a hell hole. " I believe that behind every good relationship there is a good friendship. As dating develops into a long standing relationship friendship is the elasticity that holds people together through hard times. Relationships fade from the "hot honeymoon" stage to the more monotonous "day in day out" stage. When your relationship takes this turn...you will soon find out whether or not it will survive. Because usually this is where breakups happen. One person looses interest, other things look new and fun and it isn't just about the romance anymore. "Dating isn't the only way to interact with the opposite sex! " Duh.... "The proper way to treat a lady is to befriend her, make her realize she's who she is, nothing more or les" Actually some of actually realise who we are before prince charming steps into our lives. If you enter a relationship with the ideal that you are going to "make us realise who we truly are" you are going to have some...problems. "If you date and you don't truly love, then what other reasons are there? Fun? If so then why do you have to date, why not just be friends? Then at least you don't have any pressure or exclusiveness." You have to truly love before you date? Ack. Let's get this straight. You date a person to get to know whether or not you want to be in an exclusive relationship with them. You don't just go to a club and say "Hey you wanna be my friend?"... you know since you don't truly love them....hell you just met them...you liked the way she looked in her skirt....you liked the way she smiled at you...her voice etc. No...you do not just go make friends. You exchange numbers and you ask if she'd like to go out sometime. You date to get to know people. Most times Dating comes BEFORE the friendship. k that's enough picking on Tie guy and I could do a lot of picking on too. "When you said that "dating gives you experience for dating, like where to go and where not to go, what to say and what not to say, and what to do when", that's exactly right. Dating and marriage are two different animals. I know this. I'm just saying you need experience in dealing with the opposite sex (dating) before going off and getting married" yup - Dating is a lot different then marriage. We all agree. Right? But I do not feel that you need to go out and date random women in order to prepare for your future wife. You go out and you have fun - you meet people. That's all there is to it. Yes you gain experience. But one does not need to date a crap load of woman in order to know how to treat his wife to a good time or with respect. He learns it from his friends and family like Tie Guy said. "Everyone needs chances to see what they want in a soul mate, and they also need chances to mess up and learn what NOT to do. You can't just dive into marriage with your very first girlfriend/boyfriend and expect it to last. (Again, there are exceptions to this." So your saying....go out and date woman. If she turns out to be the wrong one...don't just stand there crying. Chalk it up for experience points and go get another one tiger!!! okay.... You still have to pick people that you are INTERESTED IN. Don't just go around hurting woman because you feel hey at least I'll learn something!! Meanwhile get a little sumthin sumthin. That is using. "Anyways, I would just remain to be her friend. Try going out with her. It does not have to be a date or anything big. Grab some food and see a movie or a hockey game or something. Just because you go out on a date with someone does not mean you are in a relationship with them. That comes much later. " I couldn't have typed it better myself! *hands fall off - eyes squinting - sighs* I've said my piece..for now. Hope it turns out for the best Clefo! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfmanNCSU Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Originally posted by STTCT *cracks knuckles....shakes head mumbles something about men* ....... "Anyways, I would just remain to be her friend. Try going out with her. It does not have to be a date or anything big. Grab some food and see a movie or a hockey game or something. Just because you go out on a date with someone does not mean you are in a relationship with them. That comes much later. " I couldn't have typed it better myself! *hands fall off - eyes squinting - sighs* I've said my piece..for now. Hope it turns out for the best Clefo! " Hey, I said that Alright! Good luck Clefo. Its not near as hard as it sounds in this thread. I am sure things will turn out for the best for ya, and above all, just have fun and enjoy yourselfs. Enjoy her company and dont let anything keep you from remaining friends. You will know it if the time calls for a more involving relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 oh no ! did i complicate things and make it sound all hard. ack. please forgive me. BTW Clefo are you going to give us an update or...are you scared to now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfmanNCSU Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Originally posted by STTCT oh no ! did i complicate things and make it sound all hard. ack. please forgive me. BTW Clefo are you going to give us an update or...are you scared to now? No no no. I was just telling Clefo that dating is not as hard as every says it is. And with lots of different advice coming from this thread, it can sound a little intimidating and make you get nervious....not just you STTCT or anyone else here. You will do fine Clefo, now go forth and have fun. Update on how good things are going (thinking positive for ya). And I suggest the hockey game date. I love those. Assuming you like hockey, you can teach her the game, or hell maybe she can teach you if you dont know it Go grab a burger, watch the game and you will have loads of fun. Or just go out and do something you enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc Stryphe Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Ahh love. The elixir of our happiness and the bane or our existence. We are stirred to love, yet we are forced to stumble through it's murky waters. Confused and frustrated we wander until, if we are fortunate, we blindly come across that fragrant meadow, littred with nature's colors and a soft golden bathing of evening sunlight and there, we revel in the comfort and pleasure, until the vision vanishes and we are left standing amidst the dark and dreary night of lost love. Plagued by questions and doubt until we happen upon another love, to start the cycle all over again. If you're really lucky one time the golden meadow and precious warmth stay with you until your last breathe and leave this world in contentment, and most importantly, in love. Love is the most confusing, misunderstood, frustrating, scary, and yet ironically, most saught after ideal of mankind. Just remember, love, though very much similar in most respects, differs from person to person. We each envision our perfect love, our perfect mate, our ideal, if you will. Love is self-destructive, but at the same time, it completes us. It is the conundrum of our existence and the paradox that we shall never solve. But hot damn! Does it feel good! Well, my wife may tell you differently, but I think it's the most fun I've ever had being scared and confused! My advice to you, Clefo, is this: Nothing... "Why nothing?", you ask. Simply for this reason, love advice is cliché and condescending at best. One must experience love and the dilemmas that ensue for themselves. rather than listen to our own self-righteous opinions, follow your heart, Clefo, it won't steer you wrong... that much! Smile, for what you are about to experience will be a roller-coaster of emotion of unfettered bliss, coupled with frustration and endless doubt. But in the end, you wouldn't have it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Originally posted by Boba Rhett For someone who claims to have no knowledge on the subject, you sure have come to quite a few of your own conclusions on the matter, Tie. You also speak as if they are the only conceivably correct ones. I have never dated anyone, and i don't plan to in High School, either. But i have lots of friends who are girls, two sisters, and mom. Thats more than enough for me to draw conclusions, i think. As for what i've said, it is all my opinion. I would have thought that was clear, even without me putting IMO at the end of every sentence. I did put a note.... Jediduo, i never said dating was wrong in all circumstances, i just said it wasn't worth anything for marriage. Your date should always be your friend first, that's all. STTCT, i think we are confusing what dating is here. Dating is not going out an having a good time with a girl, or a guy. "Grabbing something to eat" is not a date IMO, at least not neccessarily. You go out with your friend who is a girl and get something to eat and enjoy their company without going on a date. Heck, i do that with my cousin all the time, shes a great girl but i think you can see why we wouldn't date. The same goes for my friends who are girls, but i never "date" them. You can still have fun with others without dating, so don't think you can't. Dating, in my eyes, is a serious, exclusive relationship between two people. And i think it should be saved for courting only. If you aren't courting, then why does it need to be exclusive? You can have fun with them, but why can you only have a good time with them, and they with you? In that light its pointless, restricting. You have to truly love before you date? Ack. Let's get this straight. You date a person to get to know whether or not you want to be in an exclusive relationship with them. You don't just go to a club and say "Hey you wanna be my friend?"... you know since you don't truly love them....hell you just met them...you liked the way she looked in her skirt....you liked the way she smiled at you...her voice etc. No...you do not just go make friends. You exchange numbers and you ask if she'd like to go out sometime. You date to get to know people. Most times Dating comes BEFORE the friendship. First, in my eyes, dating is an exclusive relationship, not a precurser to it. Second, you would date someone you don't even know?! IF I wer going to meet someone at a bar, i certainly wouldn't say "wanna go on a date" or whatever, i would get to know them first, isn't that logical? Be a friend, then you can decide if you love them and thats when a serious relationships begins. I honestly don't see how it can be the other way around. Havoc, the problem here is that he doens't have any feelings for her, he's just doing it "for the heck of it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 well in the real world....strangers do date. yes friends of opposite sex can go grab a bite to eat. Its called grabbing a bite to eat. But grabbing a bite to eat with someone you are interested in is more like a date to me. Unless you already know eachother and you have established you are going out as friends. But if some guy at work came and asked me to the movies....and lets say ...it was b4 I was engaged....I would consider it him asking me out on a date. Not just that he wants to go hang out as friends.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc Stryphe Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Tie, first of all, let me say I respect your opinion, and actually on many levels I agree wholeheartedly with you. Having said that: Originally posted by Clefo Being a semi-geek this is all very new to me, From the above quote from Clefo it would suggest that the dating/love/girlfriend territory is , for the most part, new and unexplored to him. Now, an example, if you will. How do you know what cold is? Because you know what hot is, and vice versa. How de we know what light is, unless we experience darkness first, or vice versa. How do we know "like" from "love" unless we experience some feelings that show us the difference. Now first of all, Clefo classifies himself as a semi-geek, and apparently women is pretty much new territory to him, to an extend. Let him explore a few different relationships to see what Love doesn't feel like or maybe he'll be fortunate and find out what love is. Now before you pick my arguement apart, yes I know we all experience love with our family members, a pet dog, a best friend and a favorite food , but I think you'll agree with me that there are different types of love. I shun to think that we wouldn't marry someone until we find someone who makes us feel like we're with out mother! It's a different, romantic love we feel towards our opposite sex, particularly our life mates. But to first know that it is love you're feeling you must make sure you don't, or haven't, felt that way about every relationship/girl (i.e. puppy love, or enfatuation). Now, let me say for the record, that dating for the hell of it is, indeed, wrong and I do not condone such dating behaviour. Like I said earlier, I agree that serious, exclusive dating should be reserved for marriage prospects, not just for fun. But let him experience women at least, so that he knows what just friendship, enfatuation, puppy love, and lust are so that down the road he doesn't confuse them with love eternal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Originally posted by STTCT well in the real world....strangers do date. In the real world people kill themselves and others and bomb buildings and buses with children in them. It happens, but that doesn't mean its right, or that i have to agree with it. I get what your saying exactly, havoc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc Stryphe Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Originally posted by Tie Guy I get what your saying exactly, havoc. I figured you would. We pretty much think along the same lines. Most stuff we agree on, or at the very least, we can compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfmanNCSU Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I think its time for a group hug. AWWWWWWW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Don't touch me you State fan! Really though, Havoc makes a good point. You need to experience what love isn't and what it is in a romantic sense, and i guess you really can't get that from family, but that doesn't mean that you have to date people you don't love to find out. Sure, maybe if you do date out of lust and think it is love, you learn something when that falls apart, but that doesn't mean its neccessary or that you should date out of lust just to show yourself what you shouldn't do. I guess its just that if you do date then you can learn what aren't good reasons to date, and if you don't date until you are truly in love then that obviously works out too. But i still think its better just to wait and develope meaningful friendships. A matter of opinion for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherack Nhar Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Originally posted by WolfmanNCSU I think its time for a group hug. AWWWWWWW I think Wolfman nailed it right there. *hugs everybody* I LOVE YOU GUYS!! *cries* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I just love these threads:) So much happyness, so much joy, so much confusion on the true meaning of real love;) But it all works out in the end without any bannings*...isn't that nice. *note that I didn't say flame wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artoo Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Wow there's alot of good stuff in this thread. Dangit Havoc you took the words out of my mouth, the eternal conondrum, that which completes and yet sestroys us. But once you know it, it's really hard to go back. Also the distinction must be made between the different types of love. Lust - physical attraction. Admiration - attraction to others achievements. Agape - Always wanting the best for someone else minus the romance. "True" Love - Some combination of the above though not depending on any one of them. This is my take on it, it's the best theory I've come up with for love, some of the parts have to be there, just not all of them, for instance you might like someone who wouldn't be considered "hot", but there's no one else in the world you'd rather have a conversation with. Of course once you are truly "in love" then everything gets distorted due to the "rose-colored glasses" theory. This is not bad because he who is in love can only see perfection in that which he loves. Of course if this state of being in love is going to last then he must shuck his "rose-colored glasses" usually at the exact wrong time (time's of trouble between the lovers) and still be as in love as he was before, despite the flaws he can see. Have I rambled too long on about my views on love? Sorry, just being in love with the person you consider your soulmate tends to make you think heavily on things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jediduo Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 My my, Artoo......Care to share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artoo Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I just did. Weren't you reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 lol i think clefo died, no worries... he will be back to tell me that the steelers really didnt win the supa bowl when they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted January 6, 2003 Author Share Posted January 6, 2003 Well, I wouldn't deny if the Steelers won the Super Bowl, I also wouldn't deny the reports of Food Poisoning to the opponents before the games.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 it is funny to read men's take on love.... now I understand why they were so clueless in HS. J.k ;) only kidding...but seriously...if other woman read this forum...you guys would be in trrrrrrroooouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfmanNCSU Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 I do think its funny that people differ in views about these kinda topics. Above all, I think its a lot like dancing, its not as hard as people try and make it. You just got to feel the groove, but everyone has their own personal style to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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