CaptainRAVE Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I think that there are 2 things that are not being taken into account as far as Star Wars (and incidentally, Star Trek) have gone in recent years: 1.) Evolution of special effects. - You have to remember that when Star Trek TOS was on the air, there was NOTHING like it anywhere. Let's be honest, the special effects was the hook and only after people started to get used to the effects did anyone (most anyone) notice that the STORY was trying to make a point. Now days, SFX are getting to be so amazing (CGI) that spaceships fighting is "old hat". If you don't have an incredible story (Star Trek's main themes ARE decades old) you ARE NOT going to get people interested in your movie. I watched Fellowship of the Ring for the first time last night and while the effects and visuals were absolutely stunning, the reason that I am now itching to see Towers was the STORY! This is also true for Star Wars. 2.) Changes in our Society - Let's face it, there are now more people out there who think that if anything tries to impart some kind of moral or moralistic view, it's trash. If you don't have lots of sex and scantilly (spelling?) clad women you aren't going to sell unless your story is incredible. We Star Trek/Star Wars fans have mostly been relegated to "cult" status and no one new is looking because all they see is a preachy show without real drama. We all know that Picard/Kirk/Janeway are going to win somehow. The only series that didn't automatically guarantee this was DS9 in the latter years. But this theme is very rarely continued. How can you hold an audience if they know that the good guys are going to win, no matter what? I think that we should take some lessons from anime. A lot of the time the "good guys" win but at a high cost. Maybe this might spark some interest though it's probably too late. Let me end by saying that as of this date, I havenot seen Nemesis. I will see it this weekend and no matter what I will remain a die hard fan but until we can find someone who is willing to put some kind of edge back into our storylines, we are DIW. (Dead in the water). And Note: I know Star Wars films still do well, but they dont do as well as they used to. What are all of your opinions (Star Wars and Star trek fans)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Glorfindel Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 a very interesting point you have just raised. Everything you have said is true, the newest ST stinks, It has no real storyline and STE is sinking like a rock in a lake, and your right about SW movies too, their doing good, but their slightly declining, but SW has EU which is getting more, and more popular. I think ST will go down long before SW goes down if the movies are badly written (though some TNG movies are well written, ST Enterprise is losing viewers every week). TPM? Badly written, AOTC? Better than TPM, ESP? Ok, ROTJ? Best out of them all, TNH? Bad. But yet all SW movies makes 100 Million in Box-office alone. And ST Movies are not doing so well as SW Movies. So my analysis is ST is on its way down if they don't get a decent storyline or script, than all is lost for ST TV fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I think Star Wars will go down before Star Trek, simply because, what will happen after Episode 3? Will there be a TV series? Will there be any more movies? I highly doubt it, and if there are, I can tell you now that George Lucas won't have anything to do with them. ST however will go on to make even more series, and the films will go on and on. There are too many limitations with Star Wars, and after the next film, there will be no room for expansion. (Just a quick note, Rave - not sure it's a good idea to post two threads about the same kind of topic, in this case SW and ST. Try and merge them next time if possible:)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 It's very true that if the good guys always win then it reduces the tension and involvement alot. I thought that for instance Star Trek: First Contact was good because you got the feeling all the way through that the good guys couldn't possibly win. Empire Strikes Back is most peoples fave Star Wars I think it's fair to say (tho not mine), partly because its more dark and the good guys lose. Interestingly.....Episode III is likely to be fairly depressing because almost all the good guys get killed, and the whole thing has to end with something along the lines of: Obi-Wan "Damn it, everyone is dead except me and Yoda. I am so fed up of this I'm just going to live in cave. Stupid galaxy" (Film ends) (Silent Pause) (Crowd Jeers) The original SW trilogy obviously had a massive appeal that ran across every group, although the new trilogy is successful (commercially at least), it doesn't seem to have quite the same wide appeal for some reason, possibly due to the increasingly complexity of the plot issues, and the need to know some background to really understand it - ie - it isnt as accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Star Wars is going to go down first and Star Trek next. LoTR is gonna be the next big thing along with Harry Potter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast Star Wars is going to go down first and Star Trek next. LoTR is gonna be the next big thing along with Harry Potter. Harry Potter will go down first. Compared to its start, it hasn't been as popular. LotR next. Its been around for 50 years, and now it's just getting popular. Remember, after RotK and the Hobbit (if they do it...), its over for them. Star Wars will be next to go, with only books, comics, and video games driving it forward. That's actually alot to make it continue! Star Trek will go on forever. The story is infinate. Just look at it, James Kirk to Picard was like 80 some years, Enterprise skips back hundreds of years, and then look at this Temporal Cold War in the future. The death of all of these things is some time away, fortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Harry Potter is already nothing. It died instantly. Both movies sucked and the books were ok. Nothing like LoTR. SW is on the brink of dying, and LoTR is just starting its rise to fame. Those are the facts ppl, lets face them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 If we the fan participate in all of this stuff for SW (these boards are participating...) then it is bound to live on for a long time yet. LotR, as great as the books and movies are, will die within this decade. The AD&D guys, however, have been around for as long as LotR practically, will always be doing that stuff, keeping it alive as we SW fans are doing for SW. Like I said, ST will always be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova_wolf Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Below is what I posted for the 'EpIII - 'vation' Thread. Feel it applies here, for SW & ST. I have to agree with various points at once... Yes, okay - it may be unfair to compare Prequels with LOTR due to their comparative ages as stories, but having said that, LOTR still needed to be made viable for movie usage - there is a lot o material there, ad not all of it CAN be covered in a single 2 1/2 or 3 hr movie. I am also in agreement with people such as Darth Yoda™. I was once of the opinion that SW was the ultimate film series. Then EpI happened, followed by the release of something that I canot fault, and cannot find anything other than superior to SW. Does not mean I am abandoning SW, I will still follow and watch, but it has been diminished AND beaten. Makes we think of the frequent thread The Future of SW... - GL has maybe cemented SW's future amongst the new egenration as a LOTR wannabe rather than the generational landmark. It was gonna be beaten to that acolade by LOTR - it had to be for it to be fair. Bond doesn't hold the same sway anymore - thats just life. But it's lesser quality form did not help this. To call LOTR better is not evil, or stupid - is a natural progression. Our parents had SW, we have LOTR. We still love SW, but things must change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 what about the sequels to th OT anybody think about that. i remember GL saying there is gonna be sequels but hes not gonna be doing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Never. It'd conflict with the EU. GL is proud the the EU and movies have very few flaws, unlike some other things we know of. *coughs STAR TREK cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova_wolf Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Yeah - cuase GL hasn't allowed ANY continuity errors into the SW continum through the way he introduced Boba Fett or the Death Star... EU - Boba Fett was a disgruntled JourneyMan (Think thas right job title) who then went bounty hunter. PT - Boba Fett was a bounty hunter. Period. EU - The Death Star was designed by Bevel Lemelisk at the Maw installation. PT - The Death Star was designed by the Sepratist Movement during the Clone Wars. GL has really let things go to the galactic equivialnt of the dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Jango was raised by Jaster Mereel, a Journeyman. Since Boba wears his armor, he is often confused to have once been Mereel. The DS plans were sold to the Geonosians. Raith Sienar had the holos in Rouge Planet, it was sold to a bunch of people and ended up in the hands of the Sith. They then had that guy design the final thing and prototype. Make a new thread to bring these things up for us to correct them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I think the bottom line is that SW is falling, and LoTR is rising. That's my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Yes I agree with Darth Yoda... Sw is going to die soon after the next movie but LoTR will still be going strong... heck it may even become so popular that someone would write a sequal movie about the troubles of men!!! that would be sweet... but of course they would have to do the Hobbit first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I was thinking and I came up with a thought that made me laugh my ass off....this is Lucasforums and we all seem to be turning down GL...oh well, nothing lasts forever...sorry GL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Warrior Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Yoda™ I was thinking and I came up with a thought that made me laugh my ass off....this is Lucasforums and we all seem to be turning down GL...oh well, nothing lasts forever...sorry GL. lol, yea I know it is pretty funny. I think there are more LOTR fans here then Star Wars. And I agree with what you said. LOTR is taking thw world by storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 As did Pokemon and Harry Potter. Pokemon lasted no longer than 2 years (thank God!) and Harry Potter is dying. LotR has always been popular among "geeks" who play AD&D... That's pretty much what that game is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 whats AD&D? Lol I guess i'm not a "geek"... YES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Glorfindel Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 LotR next. Its been around for 50 years, and now it's just getting popular. Remember, after RotK and the Hobbit (if they do it...), its over for them. I must remind you Katarn07 LOTR has been popular with people before the movies, and not just AD&D or D&D players, I have never played any of them I love tolkiens work, and also there are couple more books besides the lotr Tril and the Hobbit, there is the Silmarillion (Only read this book if you have read the Lord of the Rings, don't read it if you have just read the Hobbit, the very beginning is boring but after you get past the beginning it is a whale of a book, a must read) and The Unfinished Tales (don't read this book unless you have read LOTR and The Silmarillion). And LOTR and Harry Potter will take much longer, or if ever, to die. Books are impossible to kill but are very easy to neglect. O and also D&D was a mockery of Tolkien, which it took alot of its groundwork from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Between Return of the Jedi and the first of the Prequels, there was a sixteen year gap, and Star Wars came back as popular as ever. There will always be new generations descovering Star Wars, will always be loyal fans like me who will tell his nephews, kids and grandkids to watch these movies, and most of them will probably love them. Star Wars is a myth, something that is timeless and will always resonate with people. As long as there are people who like these movies, the fandom will continue, even with nothing new coming out. Lord of the Rings has been around for the last 50 years, of course it will still be around in 50 more years. It's already a classic, and just like we're still reading Jane Eyre and Dracula, people will still be reading Lord of the Rings just to say they have. There's no competition, art is art, and both of these epics have survived the decades, and will continue to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skate Boy Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Yoda™ I think the bottom line is that SW is falling, and LoTR is rising. That's my opinion. Werd. I agree with you, LotR is going to be very big, one of the reasons is because people don't have to wait 3 years to see a film with no plot, bad actors, bad lines. That's what Ep. II was in my opinion. Nemesis was not like a Star Trek. They put action in it just so it would appeal to the public, but in the process, they lost lots of fans. You were also talking about the cost, well someone did die in the movie, so maybe you should watch the movie before you act like you know everything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I liked Nemesis. It doesn't hurt to put in an epic space battle as seen in Nemesis. Still now where as good as Generations (yes, it's my favorite!) and First Contact. I know LotR will be popular for a while yet, for non-readers. And yes, SW has been gaining strength between the OT and PT, and the PT was just a distant rumor until the mid 90s... It will continue in the EU, and those non-EU people will have to submit and need to catch up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckcsaber Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I look at this thread, and hang my head in shame. We have people comparing Star Wars with stuff like Harry Potter, Pokemon, LoTR, and, ugh, Star Trek. The longevity of Star Wars has already been proven by Episode 1. Ok, so it wasnt as good as the OT, but did that stop ppl from seeing Ep 2? Some people might think Star Wars is going to die, but that is only because George Lucas will not do a third trilogy. Also, consider the fanbase, ie. most of lucasforums. The fans will never let Star Wars die out. I STILL watch the OT, as old as it is. There is also the EU which has been extremly succesful, and in some cases entertaining. There are books, games, comics, and other items. Star Wars is timeless. And please dont say Star Wars is falling and Lord of the Rings is falling. That is just stupid. Yes, LoTR was a good book trilogy, and the movies are great, but dont ASSUME Star Wars is DYING because there are blockbuster movies popping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Originally posted by ckcsaber I look at this thread, and hang my head in shame. We have people comparing Star Wars with stuff like Harry Potter, Pokemon, LoTR, and, ugh, Star Trek. The longevity of Star Wars has already been proven by Episode 1. Ok, so it wasnt as good as the OT, but did that stop ppl from seeing Ep 2? Some people might think Star Wars is going to die, but that is only because George Lucas will not do a third trilogy. Also, consider the fanbase, ie. most of lucasforums. The fans will never let Star Wars die out. I STILL watch the OT, as old as it is. There is also the EU which has been extremly succesful, and in some cases entertaining. There are books, games, comics, and other items. Star Wars is timeless. And please dont say Star Wars is falling and Lord of the Rings is falling. That is just stupid. Yes, LoTR was a good book trilogy, and the movies are great, but dont ASSUME Star Wars is DYING because there are blockbuster movies popping out. What I've been saying. But I still think Harry Potter will die within the decade.... SW and ST will go on for quite some time, regardless as to there being no more movies and how many people hate them. LotR is hard to say. It's been around for 50 years, but it draws in a lot more people with the movies.... I say it'll go on for at least another 50 years. I just saw TTT yesterday and thought it was great. It is sure to go on in company of the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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