Darth Talliusc Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 this is a little idea i came up with. please feel free to add your own to this list or debate it with me (as long as you play nice). the idea is that with all the prequel bashing going on and people saying that the prequels are a mockery of what starwars was/is supposed to be, we think up what would be the major complaints if the situations were reversed. if the prequels had been released back in the late 70's/early 80's and we were just now getting episode 4/5/6: we'd hear nonstop complaints about the title "the empire strikes back" and endless wishes that they had a cool title like "attack of the clones" did. chewie would be known as a "cheap furry jarjar rip off with less lines". people would curse the stupid ewoks and wish for better primitive races like the gungans. the speeder bike chase would be nothing but a cheap podracer spoof with less imagination. people would complain about the overdramatic end to esb saying that GL needed to think up some better endings like he did with tpm and aotc. people would hate having yoda as a happy hyper little midget and complain nonstop. people would be pissed that there werent any more curved/double bladed lightsabers to show off. people would claim that george lucas had lost touch with the fans and the starwars essence. and the big one: my personal favourite..... ANOTHER DEATHSTAR???? you did that already george! would be the rallying cry of angry fans. and there you have the first installment (of many i hope) to the list. i hope that you realize that the prequels arent really that bad and that in time you will forget the little annoying things like the title for ep2. superman and batman seem like common and fine names now but if they were introduced today they'd be laughed out of the industry. i mean look at their names!!! (if this thread has been done before or you have any problems with it please contact me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 I totally agree with the parts of this I read. Jar Jar is no more annoying than Chewie, and AotC is a corny name, just as ESB was! Wow, someone just posted this?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 In my opinion, Lucas is the creator of Star Wars, and only he can say what Star Wars is supposed to be, and we, as fans and devotees of this saga, are just along for the ride, waiting to see what Lucas comes up with next. Some people, like me, love to see Lucas' vision unfold, and others don't (understatement). It's the same with every series. The Phantom Menace couldn't have been made in 1977--special effects weren't up to date enough to create such things as Coruscant and the Podracers, and action choreography had not reached the point where the duels would have been possible. And Attack of the Clones couldn't have been made in 1980, not and have the enormous clone army in action. I think Lucas made the right choice, going to the middle first, and making the story that he could with the limited technology at his disposal. But, more to the point of this thread--some people who loved A New Hope felt betrayed by Empire. Critics bashed Empire mercilessly. There will always be some people who like the original and hate the sequel--we're just hearing more from these people now because they're as close as our computers. And, yeah, the second death star annoys me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Shutt Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Actually, if the prequels had came first, then the series would likely have ended with The Phantom Menace. We sure as hell wouldn't be seeing new installments over twenty years later. The reason the prequels get so much criticism is that they're bad movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon_man Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Ditto to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I actually like the prequels better, tho ESB is better than TPM. i think i like them better cause I got to see them in the theatre without knowing what was going to happen. TPM was an awesome movie, especially the Final Battle. AOTC was even better. so everybody just shut the **** up, it's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I think the thing is with the prequels, is that they are designed to tell part of a story, and not really a totally "seperate" movie. Unlike ANH, which was made without the knowledge of the other movies being made, it stood up well. TPM and AOTC are more in the mould of you have to watch all the other SW movies for their entire depth to be made clear. I am sure that when the opportunity comes around to watch 1-6 all in the one sitting, TPM, AOTC and Ep3 will make a lot more sense when you see the events in ANH, TESB and ROTJ. Remember, we know the ending, it is hard to watch movies that are trying to get us to the start of another three movies. These prequel movies MUST HAVE certain things, which have been gossiped and talked about for 15-20 years. Anakin must fall to the Dark Side, the Skywalker twins must be born. Obiwan must train Anakin, etc. Cut the guy some slack, and take these movies for what they are, a way of telling a back story to get the events of the OT to have more meaning. That may mean in some ways a totally different set of movies to set things up, but it is still SW..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarn07 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Originally posted by Rogue15 I actually like the prequels better, tho ESB is better than TPM. i think i like them better cause I got to see them in the theatre without knowing what was going to happen. TPM was an awesome movie, especially the Final Battle. AOTC was even better. so everybody just shut the **** up, it's all good. What he said. Although, I don't like them better... Hey, for all those who think EU isn't real, (Jedi_Monk), Coruscant appeared in a book like that, and GL copied it! And the Rishi Maze that is mentioned in AtotC, Rishi is a planet in the Thrawn Trilogy, the 2nd one I think... Obviously his vision has changed, because I doubt GL would have had that duel on paper and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Actually, if the prequels had came first, then the series would likely have ended with The Phantom Menace. We sure as hell wouldn't be seeing new installments over twenty years later. We're jaded because we have seen the Original Trilogy. But if The Phantom Menace had come out in 1977, it would have been as big a blockbuster as A New Hope had been--and for the same reason that ANH was so successful: nobody would have seen anything like it before. It still would have blown people away. But then, as I said, Episode I would have been impossible to make in the 70s without making serious concessions, such as no Coruscant and a droid army made up of people in costume like 3PO. Hey, for all those who think EU isn't real, (Jedi_Monk), Coruscant appeared in a book like that, and GL copied it! And the Rishi Maze that is mentioned in AtotC, Rishi is a planet in the Thrawn Trilogy, the 2nd one I think... Coruscant, the name, was from the EU, yes--but the concept of a city-wide planet dates back to the earliest drafts of Star Wars, but Lucas was unable to utilize the concept because of limitations in special effects technology. There are Ralph McQuarrie paintings of this planet-city dating back to the preproduction of Jedi. Using the name "Coruscant" is a small concession to the EU. I'll also concede that there are other things in the movies from the EU, the most obvious being the double-bladed lightsaber (Exar Kun, the Tales of the Jedi), the holocron (edited out of the movie, Dark Empire) and Aalya Sacura (Star Wars comic series). Do you notice a pattern here? Everything from the EU that has been included in the movies come from the comics (except for the name Coruscant, though it can be found in most of the comics). Lucas admitted that he added Sacura into SW2 because he saw her on the cover of a comic and thought the character looked cool. That's how it works; Lucas does not read every shred of EU literature that comes out. However, clones do not go insane, clones are not defined by a doubled vowl in their name (ugh), the Clone Wars did not take place, what was it? 40 years before ANH? And the Jedi do not fly around the galaxy in a giant ship called the Cu'unthor, and these are just a few things that differ between the EU and the movies. The long and short of it is that Lucas will make small concessions to the EU, however they are mostly background issues, little bones thrown to EU-lovers, and the EU has no effect on the story of the Prequels, itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted January 18, 2003 Author Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Jedi_Monk The Phantom Menace couldn't have been made in 1977--special effects weren't up to date enough to create such things as Coruscant and the Podracers, and action choreography had not reached the point where the duels would have been possible. And Attack of the Clones couldn't have been made in 1980, not and have the enormous clone army in action. I think Lucas made the right choice, going to the middle first, and making the story that he could with the limited technology at his disposal. im sorry but i cracked up very hard reading that. while what you say is true for the most part i still find it very funny. the podracers couldve been created, they wouldve looked ugly and wouldnt be very convincing. probably much more motorcyclish but they could have been made. the duel wouldnt have been as pretty but it couldve been done quite easily.but thats not the funny part for me. you say that they couldnt have had that huge army battle in AOTC back then. well they pulled off hoth and that went fine, i suspect that if it went in the other order (as the thread implies) people would say that it would HAVE to go 123456 because the battle of hoth wouldve looked terrible if made back in the 80's. it just wouldnt do to have the weak armies first with low tech and then go back in time and have better armies with better technology. not to mention the fact that chronological is the general order of movies. im in no way criticising you or your opinions but i do hope you see that with all the parralells between the OT and the prequels many arguements would be the exact same with the sides reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Here is my opinion on this: *insert everything Jedi Monk said here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoCept Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Nope, don't agree. First most of the acting would still be bad. The acting in episodes 4,5, and 6 would be better (other than mark) Of course I don't know how people would react to graphics. Really it's imposible to even consider them switching places without having the movies changed, so we can't really judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pisces Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 No, we can't but I like the prequels better than eps. 4/5/6. I don't know, every episode has a pretty good storyline (I know they're all on the same story but you know what I mean) but I do like those special effects. Something to look at indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by AutoCept First most of the acting would still be bad. The acting in episodes 4,5, and 6 would be better (other than mark) You must be ignoring Leia and 90% of the various extras, most of whom appear to be totally uninterested in being in the movie and/or have little to no acting talent. Of all the people in the OT who went on to lead successful (and noticeable) movie/entertainment careers, there are only 2 - Harrison Ford, and James Earl Jones. Oddly enough, these 2 were the best actors in the OT... seems logical to me, anyway. I think if there's a problem with the acting in the Prequels, it stems from the script, not the actors themselves. They're not writers, they're actors. And their acting is based on the direction of George Lucas (who, i'm sure you know, also wrote the script)... are we following the pattern here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova_wolf Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Talliusc im in no way criticising you or your opinions but i do hope you see that with all the parralells between the OT and the prequels many arguements would be the exact same with the sides reversed. Actually, put like that, may be if the prequels HAD been done back from 1977, less would have been put on the SFX, and the dialgue would have been polished and the characters improved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Slayne Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 I would have to go for Jedi Monk's reasoning on this one. And I would also like to say that I for one am tired of hearing people say "But this EU book said this, and that EU book said that!", and "George Lucas sucks!". As much as I have enjoyed reading all the EU books that I have read, I can't believe the amount of complaining that has been going on. It is this simple: The story belongs to George Lucas! How would you like it if you wrote a series novels and then had somebody complain that you are wrong about certain points, merely because some other person happened to write a few short stories based on your stuff in between your releases. What would you say to them? I for one would say "Kiss my rump!" and "Who the hell came up with this stuff?" Also I would have to say that as a society, we are getting exeedingly picky about the movies presented to us. I mean who amoung you has seen Attack of the killer tomatoes? Now that is a BAD movie with a bad title to match! And yet you get those who would say "Gee AOTC is a pretty lame title." But still, we are all entitled to our opinions. I just wish that more people would appreciate the amount of effort that goes into providing us with such entertainment. Well, that's my rant anyway........*Takes deep breath and steps down from soap box* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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