Why Jedi's are going to be a uber guild only sport. Being Hardcore just isn't enough

[Shailoh]

After reading the Jedi info, the two factors used to stop the over population of Jedi's are going to be the only two that will allow members of Uber Guilds/Associations to all have Jedi, while the average Jo-bob doesn't have a chance, No matter hard core or not.

Flagged to become Force Sensitive. In the process of playing most of the hardcore gamers will find a way one way or another to get themselves flagged, If it requires starting over half a dozen times or following some internet written guide to do it. People will figure it out and do it, When most people bought star wars They considered at least once having a Jedi Knight. But no one wants to see 500 jedi and 2 bounty hunters. So a huge percentage of those people have to be eliminated.

Sadly that percentage of people is going to include alot of Hard core gamers without a Guild or Alliance.

Permanant Death. For Jo Bob The hardcore gamer without a guild, is going to be a almost insurmountable challenge, taking great care and dedication to achieve such a goal. Jo bob's efforts and time and patience will pay off in the achievement one day with a Master Jedi.

Although UberGuilded Mike, Permanent death isn't going to be a problem he is going to have the access and resources to have guild mates and protect and "powerlevel" his Jedi safely, Like a machine these guild's will produce Jedi and use those Jedi to produce more. Greatly lowering the neccesary skill and dedication needed to achieve Jedi status by using guild strenght to mass produce these players. The achievement of Master Jedi status isn't going to be something earned by in game playing skills, but rather social skills and guild alliances with little time or effort.

One of the things I hated the most about Everquest was the neccesity to be part of a "Raiding" guild to even get all your spells or the armor you needed to be on-par with other players in zones built for these people with Uber Armor. These guild's would mass produce enchanters and clerics and powerlevel their own players. A newbie could suck up to some of these people long enough to gain entry into the guild and in a matter of weeks have a full set of gear that was meant to take someone years to gain.

I dont mind the permanent death, or the having to get flagged to start a Jedi. But Its going to suck 1 year after release to see a whole guild of Jedi who can produce one pretty much at will, and other players who REALLY want a Jedi to be set with a choice. Do I A. do this the old school way, earn this and prove I deserve to be a Master Jedi. or B. Kiss some ass for a few weeks group with some of these people, donate some armor and my skills for free and have this guild mass produce one for me in a matter or weeks - Too many people are going to be tempted to just do the guild route, which after a short amount of time will have the Jedi Class flooded, by the Uber guilds. Keeping Jo bob out of the loop.

I would suggest to the Developers that they consider the fact a Jedi while part of the process would have help from another Jedi to learn and level. Would not be able to be helped or Mass produced by guilds.

Also just a side note, while I have nothing against guilds or social groups and I feel there should be special benifits to belonging to one of these organizations and opportunies to advance your character through that association, A player should not be at a complete loss without one like on Everquest. Epic? Thats not a personal quest. Its clearly a guild quest. Takes one to get one. Jedi? Hopefully that's a personal quest, not a guild one.

[TyrX]

I am reading this and maybe I am blind but have you forgotten Vader in your equation? The way it stands now, you sound absolutely right, however lets say someone in the PA gets jealous because someone else became Jedi, and everybody is fawning and protecting said Jedi, so this person decides to "report" or whatever they do to the Jedi. Next thing you know the whole PA is under attack by all sorts of Imperial factions and not to mention Darth Vader and a million and a half bounty hunters.

So as advantageous as being in an uber PA might be it still will be very hard for Jedi to advance.

 

[BlackDove]

Actually the devs really control the NPC's and they can most likely pull a search of all the jedi available, and then hound the NPC's onto the Jedi they want cut off.....so stuff like the mentioned above should be impossible. And it's a perfectly legal and straight way to do it.

[Shailoh]

The Gm's or persons working as NPC's slaughtering masses of fawned jedi is slim to none, These jedi will be training in possibly the safest places possible without doubt. Probably guarded buy at least One Jedi master and 2 support classes. I know if it was my twink getting the love treatment, and I could only die once, I would no go anywhere I could not level my twink without having any worries of mobs in the immediate area training me or being trained onto me. Im sure there will be classes with suffiecient "stopping" power to insure a twink could be safely levelled.

These wont be mass operations with 20 people standing around raising one Jedi, that wont be neccesary. Just 2 or 3 people probably all with Jedi taking turns. People with gear and equiptment earned on their Main's that have them well above the Power norm.

What about Bounty Hunters? Well out of good old common sense, by time someone has been flagged for a Force sensitive character they have a alt of higher level, now if its on of these guildlings that's being guarded and probably twinked to the teeth, I wouldn't suggest even dreaming of attacking a powered up jedi with his guardian posse healing and buffing him. That im sure would be the eqivalent of sticking your funboy in a blender. You'd be having visions of Light saber flashes and body parts hitting the floor for weeks.

I say if its gonna be this way, at least add some added nerfs like making a Jedi unbuffable except by his own Jedi master, and getting rid of the perma-death. Instead of Perma death increase the exp needed to master Jedi hood by100% 150%, or change the cost of a Jedi death to be a entire level. But perma death is very extreme. There will be Jedi. Within a Year seeing one every time you log on will be almost guaranteed. If the system left how it is now, only uber guilds will have them, and raise them. The hardcore soloist or a very dedicated part time player have to pay the price on this one. All the things in place right now keep them from reaching that goal. While making it easier for these guild's to freely expand a Jedi base to a extreme percentage with little effort other than power levelling.

[Trahern Valley]

On the one hand, I can see how annoying it can be when, once the 'trick' is figured out, everyone will be trying it. On the other, it's just a game and therefore unable to keep anyone from figuring it out.

 

I liked the idea I read somewhere that Jedi were chosen by the SWG equivelant of GMs. Not sure if that was ever a possibility, or what.

 

What I specifically don't like is the die-this-many-times-and-you-lose-your-jediness idea. I always assumed you'd have to die at the hands of a bounty hunter or sith lord for that to happen.

 

It's a MMORPG. There will be unintentional dying due to lag, connection interruption, and so on. It's just not a good idea.

[Wraith 8]

I think it is all really intersting discussiong and so.. and im glad you people are really discussing this... but could you please limit the Jedi talk to 1 or 2 threads... not make millions more.

 

and about the way of the Jedi. i think the devs will keep an eye on the ammounts

[Shailoh]

Originally posted by Trahern Valley

I liked the idea I read somewhere that Jedi were chosen by the SWG equivelant of GMs. Not sure if that was ever a possibility, or what.

 

 

Man I hope thats not true. Having GM's, volunteers, or anyone else determine who is going to get flagged force sensitive would piss me off enough to stop me from buying this game. I can't say for sure they would be fair, compare people on even scales, or even take the time to investigate what type of player they would use. I would hope they have a in game system in place that once you perform certain tasks or make certain achievements you get flagged. I dont care if its 1000, hours played or 2000 hours played or something just rediculous. It's probably going to be a combonation of a few things, probably completing a few quests, talking to the right NPCs, and maybe even meeting a skill requirement. Everyone doesn't even want to be a Jedi. I think the fact that alot of people will start on a Main character and play that one to the bone is going to be the only factor stopping the flood of PA created Jedi. Perma death doesn't scare anyone who has their mindset on it. To quote Yoda "Do or Do not, there is no try".

[Jan Gaarni]

There probably wont be just one action that will unlock the Jedi slot, but several. Only that way will it ever be possible to make it so everyone has a uniq way to become Force sensitive.

[Trahern Valley]

I guess I liked the GM's-choice idea because I doubt any amount of programming could see the potential in any unfolding story of a character. Perhaps it's just the RPer in me.

[Xago7]

I have some thoughts on this subject. I doubt GM controlled jedi selection just as I doubt GM controlled NPC for jedi wipe. GM's will be lucky to log in and run a nice event or scavenger hunt once a month. They will be too busy responding to never ending feedback, bug and exploit report and watching high level PA's attempt major wars or epic battles to check for exploitation.

 

Besides that; it just can not be. The game would have no claim to fairness or equal opportunity. I really believe that FS is a matter of meeting prerequisites. Total time played over this number, no warnings or bannings against account, specific quests to known jedi at known locations and following sub quests. Maybe even faction.

 

But automated server side. One day you log in and there is another slot at character select screen.

 

And as to the matter of mega guild powerleveling. If that is the case then you will have it made. You create your new char in FS slot, log in and spam the UberPA's. "Yes I am a FS char. Please send a group to PL me and some food, armor, and a purple, no blue, no a red lightsaber yes that all for now."

 

Obviously the top guild may already think it has enough jedi (right). You may need to let the top three PA's outbid one another for the chance to PL you to Jedi.

 

So it is easy to see that even if that was the case in game that it simply would not work due to being very exploitable by anyone who ever lucks into a FS slot.

 

My best guess is that each sub-quest, quest, skill, and encounter on the road to jedi is already a chosen difficulty. Say for example you have to meet Ben on Tatooine. You do so carefully to ensure he isnt being watched by BH. You go in, talk, train new force power, and exit.

 

Server spawns six Tuskan Raiders along the only way out. Ben has vanished and you must decide what to do. Lets compare this to a PL scenario. You train while you six guildies stand guard outside. You exit, and server spawns (6 x 6=) 36 Tuskan Raiders for you and friends to defeat. As you increase your help you are not increasing your safety due to chances of stray rifle fire. Sure you could have an armored escort and stand inside a force field but you get the picture. The server has scripts to run to maintain the difficulty of the encounter regardless of thesize of the force you bring. Best way through the trails may just be solo.

 

Either way I just dont see a game developed to be casual gamer friendly that would just allow powergamers to power through content. The dynamic spawning system, POI's, and dev's repeated warnings about the major hazards of jedi training just do not convince me that the Uber guild PL method will work. If it does then I will make a uber guild PL me.

[Danlow913]

Shailoh - i am danlow913 as u can see and i posted the idej redro thread. I have watched your posts for some time and would like you to contact me. My email adress is Danlow913@aol.com . We have much to talk about and I will make much clear to you. If you have AIM my sn as u can imagine is danlow913 talking on aim would be easier. I also urge you to visit my website at http://www.theidejredro.com and maybe post on our forums.

[Genesis16]

Just a suggestion for the force sensitive switch. You should make it a option if you even want to become force sensitive or not, so that someone who wouldn't even want to become a jedi or not, can choose, so that the people who would like to become force sensitive actually have a better chance, and would actually do something with it.

 

It would be really lame if their were no jedi, just because everyone who became force sensitive, didn't want to be a jedi.

[RocketPack Jack]

But that's just the thing. If any1 could become a jeedai then most would, if only 4 a while until they found out how hard it was. If u need to work to become a jedi then it allows people who are definitely going to be 1, given the chance, a period of time between starting playing and getting a FS slot that they can use to enjoy the other aspects of the game that they wouldn't c (eg fights every 2 secs, PA wars, etc) if they just became a jedi at the start. It will allow every1 to enjoy and appreciate all aspects of the game, well at least 4 a while.

[Mez'Kro Fellen]

First off this is my first post......

 

Second. No one can rule out or change wether guilds will seek out and PL prespective jedis. Nor can we change the fact that people will gladly except this help who wouldnt, but we can hope. Now the old Rper in me would like to hope and see jedi's following the code of the jedi... by telling no one of their procedures and training of how to become a jedi.. But that is also the foolish dreamer in me... If I personally had the amazing chance to become a jedi I would strive to acheive high lev jedi status on my own. But saying that and doing that are two diffrent things the lure of easy PL to jedi Knight or even Master is great and i belive the true jedi will resist this easy way out.. I mean one finds true enlightenment and balance and peace by doing it on their own, by fighting every inch of the way for it. Not by haveing it handed to them on a silver platter... Any jedi who beilves being PL by an Uber guild is just as fullfiling as fighting for your jedi status on your own then they may be jedi by title and power alone but not by essence or truth to ones self..... and does not desrve to be called a jedi... But as i said to think and hope everyone would follow these steps is foolish. Just like the dark side the lure of this prospect is great and we are only mortal.

[conman87]

I think that it would be rather difficult for Jedis to have a PA...

Since I'm focused on being a Bounty Hunter myself, I can personally say that if I heard of a Jedi PA, I would be over there so fast, it would make your head spin. And no matter how many times I would die, I would still return just to fight them. I'm also in a PA (The Black Faction Bounty Hunters) and I would get every 17 of my members to come to take them out. Hopefully the Devs will make sure that all of the players who will become jedi will have a different way of doing it. Having a set way would be bad, because almost all will try it.

On a second note, I also think permadeath sucks. It sucks because I think accidents happen, and if people are accidentally killed or they die, they are going to be very angry at the time they just wasted. Jedis should not have permadeath...there should just be a really small chance to become one.

[swphreak]

I think Jedi will be randomly chosen by the computer, or if someone does the right thing, they'll become a jedi.

 

and I think Permadeath sucks. You pay 15 bucks a month to play this game, but then someone decides to hubnt you down and kill you all the time, and after you're killed too many times, you die. That would suck.

[setsuko]

Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak

and I think Permadeath sucks. You pay 15 bucks a month to play this game, but then someone decides to hubnt you down and kill you all the time, and after you're killed too many times, you die. That would suck.

 

I actually grown kind of fond of the permadeath idea. First, if you are a jedi, suit yourself. Noone forced you *baddam-dam-DISH!*. And secondly, you have any idea how immensely proud you can become over a permadeath character? In my old Diablo II days, the only real achievement that made you really proud was a highlevel permadeath character. Because it was goddamn hard! The same goes for jedi, without permadeath, a jedi master achievemt would at most meet the response "oh, so he had 5 hours per day to put into it. Impressive. Not!". But if you are a jedi master permadeath character, it proves you had the SKILLS to take you there! Sure, it raised the bar a couple of miles, but that is good. Whining in front of a real challange only proves that you are not jedi material.

[RocketPack Jack]

Havent we seen this discussion b4?

I agree with Set (being an old Diablo 2 player myself) on the permadeth thing, and hope 2 god that this is the last we hear of the old jedi chestnut, cos i know i kicked up a bit of a stink by bringing up long dead issues about jedi.

[legameboy]

yes, permadeath is a good idea, it makes people think when their a jedi not go in the streets with a lightsaber and forcepushing everyone around going "Look at me, look at me!"

[ErikSchierboom]

First of all I think the number of Jedi's will always be limited to a certain percentage of the population so that no Jedi-overcrowding can occur. I can imagine having a percentage of 1 or 2 percent Jedi's in the total population, maybe even less.

 

About the Jedi PA, how wise would that be? You'll have dozens of people after you and fellow Jedi's and restricting yourself to one spot doesn't seem like a very good idea to me. I imagine Jedi's just roaming around, performing interesting and very cool quests but always very stealthily not letting anybody know you're a Jedi. Darth Vader would be thrilled to hear of a place in which many Jedi often reside, in fact he would be at your doorstep with a whole imperial army before you can switch on your lightsaber!

 

No doubt there will be players that will try to abuse being a Jedi, but I think in general it won't really be a problem. I know I'm gonna be a bounty hunter so better watch out you future Jedi's

 

About the permadeath part, I find it a very good idea. Being a Jedi is extremely special and rare and you should be very proud but also careful! The time in which SWG is situated doesn't suit you waving around your lightsaber all the time just showing off. Permadeath will add to the feeling of caution you should have, actually steering the behaviour of Jedi's in SWG towards a more "realistic" Jedi behaviour.

[legameboy]

jedi overcrowding, that would be stupid, im glad the're controling it

[Dradle]

I love the "D2 old school shouts", but we all know you just hack a character or never played with PKers. And before I get alot a "I didn't hack or OperServer all the way" I will move on to SW:G

 

There is going to be Jedi PL, and also Ebay Jedi. There is no way anyone or Derv is going to stop that. So enjoy your Jedi, before they bring down the Nerf Hammer, and make it that everyone are cookie cutted characters just like UO...... or did you all forget about who started the skill based,House building, PVP GAME.

 

Dradle

[legameboy]

so you mean sum1 might hack into the server and make themself a jedi?

[setsuko]

Hacking the servers to alter your character is perhaps the dumbest thing you can do, since

 

A) they'll have pretty damn good security

 

and

 

B) the entire game is logged. They can check up what you said at 11:45 am two years back (once it's been out that long, that is!). If you character would have a sudden change of skills, they'll see it. Easily. And once they're on to you, you'll get a nice fat lawsuit and you'll be banned for life from the game.

 

So, don't try this at home!

[Dradle]

No I am talking about hack characters in D2 in the first paragraph.