greedo626 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 everytime I see a picture of a person or people burning the (U.S.) flag, I get infuriated. the flag is a symbol of my country and by burning it you are saying that you hate my country. it's also saying that you hate me simply because I was born and live in this country. and it seems like the only flag people burn is the U.S. flag which make me even more infuriated. there's so much anti-Americanism in the world and that pisses me off:mad: . it seems like if something goes wrong in your country it's the U.S.'s fault for not doing anything, but when we do do something people get mad because we're interfering in matters that do not concern us. what are your feeling on flag burning and anti-Americanism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__CKY__ Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 We should burn whoever burns our flag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 As for people doing it elsewhere in the world... hey, it's stupid, but thats their opinions. They choose to express their opinions in savage, primitive ways. They'd rather riot and burn flags (and, consequently, themselves in the process) than talk or protest nonviolently (worked for Ghandi). As for people inside the US... that makes me mad as well. If you feel that this country is doing something so horrible that you feel it necessary to burn its flag... then you have two choices. Do somethign constructive with that anger, like lobbying for changes, getting petitions signed, and writing your congressman/woman. Or you can get the hell out. Dont sit there and enjoy the benefits the country provides you while claiming you hate it. "God, I hate this country it sucks wtf america sucks aaargh!" Sure, go ahead and TRY to say that in China or Cuba. See how fast you end up getting taken out of your home in the middle of the night. Maybe you'll come back. Maybe. Be critical, thats fine. But dont be blatantly disrespectful. Burning the flag does nothing except peg you as an ungrateful dreg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoguePhotonic Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Hey most country's hate the U.S......and with very very good reasons...that's about all i'll say about that.. The U.S. was great like 150 years ago but today there's nothing left of a once great thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I agree with the earlier statement. If you don't like our country - get over it and work to change what you don't like, or get out. Go live in China. You'll be free to voice all your opinions there, I'm sure. Freedom of speech is one thing; burning flags is another thing entirely. At that point, you're disrespecting the very symbol of what America is. Regardless of the problems America has - and it has a lot, since about the 20's admittedly - it's still the best place to live in the whole world. You don't believe me - look at the statistics. Only one or two places, like Switzerland, have higher average wages, and we've got a whole lot more people than they do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedo626 Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 petitions and letter writing do actually work. I've written letters to the local gov. and several companies and almost every time I've gotten the desired result. burning the flag and behaving in a violent and disrespectful manner just makes people mad at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunClown Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Usually when one country sets out to invade another, flags get burned. Everybody isn't happy about the situation. Its natural. People do it to our flag to like Indonesia, Phillopines and Malaysia, get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by RoguePhotonic The U.S. was great like 150 years ago By comparison... By comparison. Only one or two places, like Switzerland, have higher average wages Two words: Social security. Actually, I don't think that burning flags is constructive. You cheer up those that are already convinced that you are right, and alienate those who aren't. Note: Hating the country doesn't mean hating the people. The country is an organisation. The people are its members. It's like hating a corporation, like Microsux. You don't have to hate its workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 They usually burn flags to show they hate the government,not the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 But very often, you'll see the people get hated along with the government. Heck, go to france sometime. A friend of mine went there once and she was spit on in the streets. Another lived there for a few years, and would often take flak just walking to her apartment. They can protest the government, that's their right. But very often their hatred of their government passes right along to the people. They stop seeing the separation between "American gov't" and "American citizen" and just see "American." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 But very often their hatred of their government passes right along to the people. They stop seeing the separation between "American gov't" and "American citizen" and just see "American." That is very, very dangerous. That's like spitting on a Muslim because you don't like Islam, because of bin Laden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Exactly... and that's probably a big reason why terrorism exists as much as it does... because the terrorists hold accountable the citizens who probably had nothing to do with what the terrorists are fighting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedo626 Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 look at September 11th. the world trade center was in no way a military or government building. that was an attack on the people, not the government. bin laden and those like him hate everything about America, including me. that's just stupid:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 Exactly... and that's probably a big reason why terrorism exists as much as it does... because the terrorists hold accountable the citizens who probably had nothing to do with what the terrorists are fighting for. The way I see it, terrorism is a way to fight a war that you have no way of winning if you fought according to the rules... Speaking of rules, will someone please tell el Presidente to cancel his crusade against Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunClown Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 It was US citizens that voted in their government wasn't it? Whats the difference? Its not like you are subjects as in a dictatorship, then it would be very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Not necessarily. I voted against Bush. I generally speak against him. In addition, I dont support many of the things the US has done in the past (which is often a motivation for the terrorists). Furthermore, when most of that happened, I either wasnt alive, or was too young to even understand what was going on. Why should I die for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 Why should I die for it? Fair point, really. Regarding flag burning and anti-"Americanism" - just ignore them. Yes, it's stupid to burn flags. We can all agree on that. And yes, it's a lame way of getting attention. Burning flags is not going to solve anything. However, as soon as you punish them, you're the one who's looking immature. They have the right to peacefully protest. By hating them, I also assume you hate the average, childish preachers. They don't deserve hate. Direct only pity and ignorance their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by FunClown It was US citizens that voted in their government wasn't it? Whats the difference? Its not like you are subjects as in a dictatorship, then it would be very different. In a democracy the people (voters) are the control institution that is supposed to make sure that no crack-pot el Presidente gets into office. But the people cannot be held responsible for the actions of el Presidente if he ****s up, only for failing to see it coming. This would be like holding the Minister of Justice personally responsible for a sheriff who busts people who shouldn't be busted. That's wrong for a number of reasons. What the Minister is responsible for is the fact that the sheriff in question is (still) in office. Also, you can't blame the entire citizenry, simply because they may not all have voted for the el Presidente in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daring dueler Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 they burn flags to show they dont agree with what our govt. or country syands for and personally i get infuriated too but its there rite i guess to protest things ,but they should think,we in this country have the rite to protest our own govt. but in most of the countries who burn our flags if they protested there own govt. the would probly be killed , that isnt rite and we have the rite to here in the u.s.-now if we werent run by greedy polititions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Eh, I guess we do have to let them do it. It is their freedom of speech being excercised, even if all they're doing is showing themselves to be ungrateful bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunClown Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Let me say that for the record that I am not anti-American. I think that the citizens of the USA have more burden on their leaders actions because that was the person whom the majority voted for, in your case, of those that voted. People may vote in who they think will represent their views more than the others. However, in a dictatorship, people don't have these rights. Yes, you could say Hussain got 100%, but what would happen to those who opposed him? The same issue is with Mugabie(sp?) in Zimbabwia who only stationed polling booths where he had strong support and put way less polling where he had little. Then once the voting was finished, people who supported him the most had more votes accounted for. And the fellow who opposed him is on trial for treason for planning to assasinate Mugabie. I never said anyone should die. But I do say that the government should be representing the majority of people. Mobocracy? Our government at the moment is actually opposing the majority of the population yet it is the one in power. This would be like holding the Minister of Justice personally responsible for a sheriff who busts people who shouldn't be busted. That's wrong for a number of reasons. What the Minister is responsible for is the fact that the sheriff in question is (still) in office. I know of corruption within the Education department in my state through the FOIA (The principal who failed a test each year which you had to pass to be principal was only able tostay in that job because he knew someone high up in the Education department). Plus teachers harrassed me at school because I wouldn't confess to something I didn't do, which meant another teacher could get into trouble. So who would you say would be responsible. The teachers, the Education department or my state government? In letting this happen, or even myself? They protect themselves basically. I was a very well behaved student at school actually. So basically, would you conclude that democracy simply doesn't work then? Wouldn't blame you, I guess nothing works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omeo7 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Regardless of the fact that it may make some of us "sad" it is completely within someone's rights to burn a flag in protest. If you feel that a symbolic piece of cloth is somehow connected to your physical persons than you are delusional. Lots of people do not like america for a number of good reasons:deal with it. Furthermore, those who talk about the "men and women that died for your flag" should also realize that those people died to preserve people's freedom. Part of that freedom is a freedom of political expression. Flag burning should not only be tolerated, but you patriotic Americans should be proud of the fact you live in a country where people can burn a flag, and angrily oppose their government without getting whacked by some government agency.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonces Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Originally posted by omeo7 Furthermore, those who talk about the "men and women that died for your flag" should also realize that those people died to preserve people's freedom. Part of that freedom is a freedom of political expression. Flag burning should not only be tolerated, but you patriotic Americans should be proud of the fact you live in a country where people can burn a flag, and angrily oppose their government without getting whacked by some government agency.. Well said... And I am extremely Patriotic American, who's family and friends have fought and died to protect my freedom. Part of that freedom includes the right burn my flag, just as I have the right to condemn them for doing so. Is it Anit-American, yes and no. It's a bit of a paradox You burn the Iraqi flag in downtown Baghdad, you will get executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Oh, like I said, it should not be made illegal. It's protected under Freedom of Speech, pure and simple. It's just incredibly ungrateful and stupid... thats my right, to have that opinion. I think much of this post was in reference to outside flag burning (like, in every single middle east country, and France ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedo626 Posted February 6, 2003 Author Share Posted February 6, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 I think much of this post was in reference to outside flag burning (like, in every single middle east country, and France ) they're burning the flag in France? ... grrr, damn French people:mad: j/k:D it's pretty much for both. people in other countries burning the flag make me madder(word?) than when someone in this country does it... for some reason:confused: . I can just imagine how people in another country would feel if I burned their flag on international tv (heh heh:p they're heads would probably explode:D ). which is another thing, why is it 'alright' to burn the American flag but not other countries? I can't tell you the last time I saw another country's flag being burned:bdroid1:. or an American buring another country's flag for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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