Breton Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Originally posted by greedo626 which is another thing, why is it 'alright' to burn the American flag but not other countries? I can't tell you the last time I saw another country's flag being burned:bdroid1:. or an American buring another country's flag for that matter. Well, firstly because they think they don't have reason to burn other flags;), but also because it wouldn't have anything near the effect of burning an american flag. You see, US "praises" its flag much more than other countries. For instance, you can only rarely see flags and things where the flag is the motive in other countries. The same goes with flags in offices, schools, ect. Somehow, the flag is much more important over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunClown Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I can't tell you the last time I saw another country's flag being burned A month or two ago the Australian flag got burnt in three countries. I don't think your media would show it. But I wouldn't get to upset or take it to personally if I were you. By saying I hate French, you've stooped to their level. But I think you were just joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedo626 Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Originally posted by FunClown A month or two ago the Australian flag got burnt in three countries. I don't think your media would show it. But I wouldn't get to upset or take it to personally if I were you. By saying I hate French, you've stooped to their level. But I think you were just joking. I think it's really counterprodutive to burn any country's flag (unless your saying you don't like how the flag looks... maybe...). and I was just kidding, hence the 'j/k' (just/kidding) and the --> smilie if I were serious about what I said about French people, I'd be just as bad as all the people who are anti-American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 The sight of my country's flag burning brings tears to my eyes. I do mean that. Old Glory is a special flag. It's not just a piece of fabric with a symbolic pattern. Old G. was there in many forms throughout my country's history. It's been modified to the point where it now has 50 stars from the original 13. Those 13 colonies that bravely chose not to succumb to a monarch's tyranny, but instead risk life and limb to be free. It was there as we killed each other and oppressed each other (Native and African Americans), but eventually found freedom and end to oppression. It was there as my countrymen (and my grandfather) went overseas in two World Wars to help other nations free themselves from oppression. It was in Korea and it was in Vietnam.... even though it might be argued that it shouldn't have. But it was there with my countryment who did their duty and it often draped their caskets when they returned. It was on my shoulder when I went to the first Gulf War... I wore it with pride! Maybe it shouldn't be in Iraq right now. But my countrymen still try to put it up. They aren't doing this to mark new territory, but to let each other and the local populations know they're going to be safe. This is what a soldier and marine believes. The flag, to them, has that kind of personality. It doesn't change with regimes in America. It stands for freedom. It stands for liberty. It stands for peace. And it stands for all those who shed blood for these ideals regardless of whether you are American or not. So I get especially miffed when what Old Glory represents is connected to the possible selfish goals of one administration. Should Old Glory be burned in public? No. Should anyone who does so be punished? No. You see... Old Glory represents that freedom which permits a person to express his/herself in that manner. To non-Americans, I cannot explain what it feels like to see Old Glory destroyed out of hate. I can only say that if you don't feel the way I do at the sight of your own flag being desicrated, .... well, I wouldn't envy that ability. I'm against the current war in Iraq for the reasons given by the current administration. I am VERY MUCH for my flag and the ideals it stands for. I do think that burning an American flag should be considered free speech and therefore not punished as such. I do, however, think that there should be extremely stiff consequences for having an open fire in a public place without a permit.... that's just unsafe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 You guys want to hear something funny? Some of the people that are boycotting American goods to oppose the war are the same people that burn the American flag. Where do they get the flag? They buy it. A good way to boycott a country is to buy it's goods. Go team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I've thought about that many a times. You know...buying a wagon, filling it with Old G's and going to the middle east to make a fortune. Those people must have a shortage of flags by now! And who can put a prize on "burning the American Flag"?! Priceless, it must be for 'em. (Oh and don't hate me, I'm just a simple man trying to make a living. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuk Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Skin walker, i fail to see how old glory, is bringing freedom, to for example, the palestinians. or the vietnamese in that war. an average palestinian would see the old glory as a symbol of oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Originally posted by SkinWalker Maybe it shouldn't be in Iraq right now. But my countrymen still try to put it up. They aren't doing this to mark new territory, but to let each other and the local populations know they're going to be safe. I know the US soldiers have good intentions, but it is this that might cause resentment among the Iraqi people. All they see is America becoming more empirialistic in the region, and while they may not support Saddam, they're more against the US than against Saddam now. When tomahawks come crashing down the roof in a shopping area, and marines raise Old Glory to mark another area "secured", I think they're feeling invaded rather than liberated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Flags are symbolic emblems. Flags represent ideas and or institutions. When people burn them it's totally symbolic. If someone hates for example, oh i don't know ah.. let's say the US. And they burn a flag, they are using a non violent way of expressing their rage. It's better than them building a bomb. I personally think it takes a tiny dic to burn a flag but at least they are not burning people. Flag burners want one thing. For you to get mad at them. Do this and they win. If someone were to burn a US flag in front of me I would say, "Whatever........ is that the best you got?" I can't remember where, but a few years ago there was a video clip circulating of a mob about to burn a flag and the guy lighting it catches fire! He flops all over the place till it goes out, he didn't get hurt but i think that was his last flag burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by Vuk Skin walker, i fail to see how old glory, is bringing freedom, to for example, the palestinians. or the vietnamese in that war. an average palestinian would see the old glory as a symbol of oppression. Agreed. But that doesn't mean that the spirit of Freedom doesn't exist with Old Glory. In spite of the poor judgment of polititcians, the ideals of freedom will always remain. I fully agree that little has been done by my government to initiate *any* freedom in the middle east since the Camp David Accords mediated by President Carter. I'm hopeful that the Bush admin's "Roadmap" will offer new opportunity, but I'll believe it when it happens. Still... I am hopeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XERXES Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 a particular swampie last week had a picture of a burning american flag with "anarchy" under it. It truly pissed me off, I wonder of the mods got my word about it and took care of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I certainly hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XERXES Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 I certainly hope so. i just checked...they havent, its still there :Pissed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Originally posted by FunClown I know of corruption within the Education department in my state through the FOIA (The principal who failed a test each year which you had to pass to be principal was only able tostay in that job because he knew someone high up in the Education department). Plus teachers harrassed me at school because I wouldn't confess to something I didn't do, which meant another teacher could get into trouble. So who would you say would be responsible. The teachers, the Education department or my state government? In letting this happen, or even myself? Starting with the beginning, I'd say that it's both the principal and the folks in the Education department who are responsible, because the way you described it, they had no reason to believe that they were doing something legal. Furthermore the COs in the higher-up institutions should have noticed that something was fishy, and so should have reacted. And that goes all the way up to the govt, because they are, in the end, responsible for checking such things. But it's important to notice the difference between what they are responsible for: The principal and the ED staff are responsible for corruption. The higher-ups are responsible for not checking them. There is a big difference. Same thing with the teachers. The teacher who ****s up is responsible for the ****up. The teacher who covers for his colleague is responsible for hiding evidence. The principal and everybody higher-up is responsible for not seeing it. But again those are different responsibilities. Thanks for providing a reallife example, and I'm sorry that you got such a bad set of teachers (I know what it's like to have your teachers working against you, when you are clearly within the bounds of the school rules... kinda like being bullied by a supermod). I think much of this post was in reference to outside flag burning (like, in every single middle east country, and France lol. For a moment I thought that you said "including France"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 *looks at title*.... *looks at sig*.... oh ****! *runs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Then there is also those isolated cases where Old Glory Fights Back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Originally posted by SkinWalker Then there is also those isolated cases where Old Glory Fights Back! THats the one, "I can't remember where, but a few years ago there was a video clip circulating of a mob about to burn a flag and the guy lighting it catches fire! He flops all over the place till it goes out, he didn't get hurt but i think that was his last flag burning. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonedemon Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 I can´t see how anybody can take offence by someone burning a piece of cloth. Yes it is detrimental to the enviroment and there´s the risk of people getting burned, but if you do it then you know the possible consequences. Just because it symbolizes a country does not make me feel anything either way. I find it silly and dangerous to have any sort of nationalism above the "I´m from this country and I abide it´s laws" level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I can´t see how anybody can take offence by someone burning a piece of cloth. Yes it is detrimental to the enviroment and there´s the risk of people getting burned, but if you do it then you know the possible consequences. Just because it symbolizes a country does not make me feel anything either way. I find it silly and dangerous to have any sort of nationalism above the "I´m from this country and I abide it´s laws" level. Is anything else offensive to you? Yes, probably, like saying that the victims of 9/11 deserved to die. Well, then how would feel if I told you that "I don't see how anyone can take offense by someone just taking a side like that".. It's all about respecting other peoples' beliefs. If someone's offended, respect that. "Just" because it symbolizes a country?? Why is Just in " symbols? Flags symbolize a whole country; its people, its ideals, its values, its culture(s), and more. Burning a flag is a horrible way to demonstrate hate and should not be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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