griff38 Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Here we are begging the world to let us disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction and today here in Florida the Airforce tested a 21000 lbs bomb. Does anyone smell Hypocrisy? And if you got the fleschette secondary fire to say it is not a weapon of mass destructrion let me drop one you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Well its the whole principle of the thing. The US has proven that they won't use bombs for the sole purpose of destruction, therefore we are trusted in this area. Saddam on the other hand... I think you see what I'm getting at. And the bomb was mostly used for psychological purposes. It will however, be used against Iraq under dire circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 hahahahaha duh thats the whole point of this the US government wants everyone except itself to have nuclear arms and other weapons of mass destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast The US has proven that they won't use bombs for the sole purpose of destruction, therefore we are trusted HAHA i doubt that anyone in the world trusts america. we freakin bombed japan all over the place with nuclear weapons. for what a few hundred american soldiers dying. thats stupid. if anything they should have just blown up a japanese harbor not melt all those citizens alive. thats cruel not to mention evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Two nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan. Nagasaki was an industrial city, so a viable target. Hiroshima was just a population center I believe, but if your intention was terror, it was a good target. Blowing up a harbor when all the ships are at sea is not really a good choice for one of the few nuclear bombs you have. Also, the invasion of Japan would have taken more then "a few hundred american soldiers" lives. It was estimated in the millions, and years of time. Yes the bombing was bad, but you are seriously incorrect in your consideration of it. I'm curious as to what this bomb is. Could someone offer up a link to it? Or at least give a name? The largest bomb that I know of is a "daisy cutter", a fuel-air bomb. I reckon a 10 and a half ton bomb might be bigger then a daisy cutter. But it wouldn't surprise me if they were one in the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Munik here is a link and yes it is bigger than a daisy cutter. Here it is. And Insane you hav eto understand. Japan destroyed many ships, put the Pacific fleet out of commission, and killed many many lives BECAUSE THEY FELT LIKE IT. The US was actually TRYING and was succeding in being neutral and staying out of the whole war altogether. Then Japan attacked them. What else was the US supposed to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I did a little searching for information on this, since that's one thing that seems to sparse in this forum, and I came up with a couple of links. This fatty bloom blatty of a link is about a daisy cutter This ball swinging link is to a page with many news links concerning the Massive Ordinance Air Burst (MOAB) bomb that this thread pertains to. So I think it I was somewhat right, this is just the new version of the daisy cutter, with more power. Edit--I started typing this before your post Reborn, but I reckon I'll still post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvader28 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 And the fact that Japan was losing anyway, knew it, and was planning on surrendering means nothing i suppose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast Insane you hav eto understand. Japan destroyed many ships, put the Pacific fleet out of commission, and killed many many lives BECAUSE THEY FELT LIKE IT. The US was actually TRYING and was succeding in being neutral and staying out of the whole war altogether. Then Japan attacked them. What else was the US supposed to do? uhm not kill millions of innocent people for one. plus so what it was a military fleet the us had no right MURDERING Billions of innocent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 *Is wondering if InsaneSiths little brother got online* InsaneSith, you seriously need to stop skewing the facts. First off, it wasnt billions of people killed. (Did it even top 1 million? I dont know, someone clarify a death couth) Secondly, skewing the facts and numbers of out proportion make your argument look juvenile. "A few hundred american soldiers..." What, are you stoned? There were a few hundred american soldiers on a single ship alone. Do you think we intended on atacking with a single ship? "billions of people" Dude, there's 6.5 billion people in the WORLD. I highly doubt that a third of that lived in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Finally, they werent innocents, not really. Japanese culture teaches that all citizens were warriors. I've seen footage of the Japanese military training women and children to throw grenades, or train them as suicide bombers. The A-bombs were needed so that the Emperor would make them surrender. Only he could keep them from fighting to the last person. Are you ok? You're not usualy this... childish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 This is how I feel about it: (And sorry for using a star trek episode for example, but it's a good example) In one episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, William Riker was collecting data on a planet with a species that has no warp drive technology. Later in the episode, the species realizes that Riker is an alien, and that there are more of him. Captain Picard, in an attempt to save Riker, had the leader of the planet beamed aboard, and asked him to join the Federation. The leader said: "And you will share all of this technology with us?!" Picard replied: "No, I am afraid not." The leader then says: "Is this your way of maintaining superiority?" Picard answerd: "No.....You must understand, to give a primative species new technology could be.....dangerous." Now, giving a cave man a machine gun or rocket launcher is not a good idea. Letting a madman have a nuclear missle is not a good idea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Originally posted by dvader28 And the fact that Japan was losing anyway, knew it, and was planning on surrendering means nothing i suppose? Actually, Japan may have lost... and many of the Japanese government and military may have acknowledged their eventual demise, but they were commited to going down fighting. This was the country that used Kamakazee pilots on a frequent basis. That's commitment. A conventional win in the war with Japan would have cost both sides hundreds of thousands of lives. I would contend that, while two bombs was probably one too many, the nuclear bomb saved the lives of many more times the number killed. I don't recall any mention in History classes about Japan being ready to surrender... but I could be mistaken. SkinWalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Originally posted by griff38 And if you got the fleschette secondary fire to say it is not a weapon of mass destructrion let me drop one you. One would also have to consider the bomb's purpose. Dropped on a target and detonated several feet from the ground, the previous daisy cutter could clear a 900-foot radius of mines. It could also defeat heavily fortified positions. Each of these are the type of obstacles that can cost hundreds, and likely thousands of lives, to clear / overcome prior to continuing on to the next objective. If such a weapon were used on a population center... that would be bad. And would serve no purpose or offer no advantage, therefore it wouldn't be used in that manner. I'm against the U.S. being involved in a war with Iraq, but I'm very interested in it being finished with the lowest casualty count possible. SkinWalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Weird, me and my friends were playing Halo tonight and we were kind of discussing this same topic....it got pretty heated.....crazy. uhm not kill millions of innocent people for one. plus so what it was a military fleet the us had no right MURDERING Billions of innocent people. Yeah, a military fleet that WASNT GOING TO ATTACK THEM. they MURDERED innocent soldiers. We were demolishing their military, and they still weren't surrendering..should more allied lives have been lost because the Japanese were too proud to admit defeat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTeddyPaul Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 The reason that the US decided to use the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was because the Emperor told the people of Japan to fight to the last man and they would have. Could you imagine taking on every single person in an entire country? I don't care if it is the smallest country that is still a lot of people. America also struck 3 days apart so as to give the Emperor time to think it over. If he would have given up sooner one city could have been spared. Not trying to say Japan made us drop the second bomb but there was no way our army could have taken an entire country thousands of miles away. It was a necessary evil. The projected casualties were in the 100 millions to take the country by the way. Still say a little prayer every 6th and 9th that that never happens again. BigTeddyPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 This bomb is just a larger version of the daisy cutter a fuel air bomb. For those who would like to know, the bomb does not rely on shrapnel like standard iron bombs. Instead it releases a cloud of vaporized fuel that if not ignited would be like gasoline rain. But after the fuel is released into a cloud like vapor, a small charge attached at the rear of the bomb flies into the vapor cloud and ignites it. This creates a fireball in the air about the size of a city block above the target, a shockwave is genrated from the explosion that is unbelievable. This is not a new idea, it does nothing regular bombs can't do, very few aircraft can carry it. Why was it made? To put money in the pockets of weapons manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedo626 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I believe the whole idea behind dropping the A-bomb on Japan was so they wouldn't attack again in the future (like Germany). Japan was close to crippling the U.S., if they had destroyed the Pacific fleet there would have been nothing between them and the west coast. invasion would have been likely. then the Japanese would have been killing innocent people left and right (look what they did in China). we dropped the bomb so they would know that if they ever tried to attack us again, we wouldn't wait till the end of the war to drop the bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 There were three main reasons to drop the bomb: Batter Japan into surrender. Establish US superiority on a global scale. Testing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelBanner Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Another one of the reason that the bombs was used is psychological. That is the same reason for the mother of all bombs and for the daisy cutters that were used in to mountians of torrah borrah. We want to scare the heck out of the Iraqi troops. Will it work? Probably not but, you never know. PS: ShockV1.89, the total death count was approximately 100,000 total for both of the atomic bombs dropped on Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I've unearthed some info on the Hiroshima Bomb on another occasion (someone asked in the Stories Forum). I just thought that I'd link to it. The main site is on Japanese, so you probably won't get much out of it (I don't, anyway, I just found the subsection I linked to on Yahoo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 im very sorry i regret acting childish. the reason that the bombings of japan are serious to me is because my grandfather was injured and sent to japan for rehabilitation and he left only a few hours before the bombing. the bombings were to take place while he was still there but they had a delay on releasing the bombs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by JoelBanner Another one of the reason that the bombs was used is psychological. That is the same reason for the mother of all bombs and for the daisy cutters that were used in to mountians of torrah borrah. We want to scare the heck out of the Iraqi troops. Will it work? Probably not but, you never know. Yep, seeing one of those big suckers floating down would scare the crap out of me. I've seen video footage of daisy cutters used to clear out helicopter landing zones in Vietnam. Very intimidating. Reduced a section of dense jungle into a circle of dirt. Thats it, just dirt, it completely blew away everything. But I don't think the moab would get much use, only with stationary targets. I'm assuming they are deployed with a parachute, just like daisy cutters. Easy for troops to avoid. I reckon these bombs can just make bigger LZ's then the daisy cutters, but I doubt that's gonna be a problem in the desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 No i dont think that they're deployed by parachute. Thats what makes them effective against moving targets as well. In fact, that site I linked to you explained all that I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 The bomb I believe is pulled out of the cargo plane carrying it by deploying a parachute behind it and letting the parachute pull it out the back, then the bomb has satellite guidance, allowing the bomb to be guided wherever they want to hit. MOAB, privately known in military circles as "the mother of all bombs," has been under development since late last year. The bomb carries 18,000 pounds of tritonal explosives, which have an indefinite shelf life. It replaces the Vietnam-era "Daisy Cutter," a 15,000-pound bomb with 12,600 pounds of the less-powerful GSX explosives. As originally conceived, the MOAB was to be used against large formations of troops and equipment or hardened above-ground bunkers. The target set has also been expanded to include deeply buried targets. But military officials tell CNN that the MOAB is mainly conceived as a weapon employed for "psychological operations." Military officials say they hope the MOAB will create such a huge blast that it will rattle Iraq troops and pressure them into surrendering or not even fighting. Officials suggest perhaps the Iraqis might even mistake a MOAB blast for a nuclear detonation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 I had an oportunity to see a fuel air bomb from about 2 miles a way back in 1983. It was closer to the daisy cutter than the new moab. Honestly I was not impressed by the single big explosion, i don't think it has the effect a carpet bombing run from a b-52 which can drop 36000 lbs of bombs at once does. Man when that happens the earth shakes the air vibrates and you feel like you can't breath. And thats from miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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