co-op MP in JA

[StormHammer]

According to ZeroXcape's impressions of the game, there will be no co-op in SP. However, the new MP mode Siege sounds like it could be quite interesting, with objective-based gameplay. If it doesn't currently allow a human team to go up against a team of Bots...then maybe it could be modded. *shrugs*

[Solbe M'ko]

Holy cow! When I first noticed this thread I thought: You could damage the environment like in ESB!

 

Anyway, I'm not a programmer or anything, but I don't think that Co-op is the same as having npcs in multiplayer. Co-op is single player with more than one person, if you follow, and I think it would have to be programmed differently. Npcs in MP would be nice though, bartenders, etc.

 

Seige sounded good until I heard somewhere that it would be compared to Conter Strike (Shudder! The Beta 2 days are long gone *sigh*). I liked assault in UT, it was my favorite game type because it required teamwork. I think something like that, with many objectives, would fit better into SW than just "plant the bomb". I would sure like to see guns only, stormtroopers vs. rebels in the Tantive IV, with C-3P0 and R2-D2 running around the map.

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko

Anyway, I'm not a programmer or anything, but I don't think that Co-op is the same as having npcs in multiplayer. Co-op is single player with more than one person, if you follow, and I think it would have to be programmed differently. Npcs in MP would be nice though, bartenders, etc.

 

Well, normally I'd agree with you and say co-op would be playing with your mates in SP...but MP has changed so much, that I think you can have co-op missions, as long as the game mechanics support a human team going through a level against NPC enemies to achieve an objective - or even a series of objectives.

 

Seige sounded good until I heard somewhere that it would be compared to Conter Strike (Shudder! The Beta 2 days are long gone *sigh*). I liked assault in UT, it was my favorite game type because it required teamwork. I think something like that, with many objectives, would fit better into SW than just "plant the bomb". I would sure like to see guns only, stormtroopers vs. rebels in the Tantive IV, with C-3P0 and R2-D2 running around the map.

 

I think they meant it was a bit like CS in terms that you had player classes, such as Jedi, Demolitionist, Trooper, etc., and that your Jedi team-mate could heal others. But they were comparing it to Assault mode in UT before...so maybe it's the best of both worlds. I too would like a guns only assault like you describe...but have you considered that Republic Commando might have something along those lines? I surely hope it does...

[Solbe M'ko]

To go off topic: I havn't seen any screens of RC yet, just that prefab trailer, so I can't comment on it yet.

[Kurgan]

I thought it had been confirmed (via our E3 reporters) that Coop play as we're all hoping for (ie: multiplayer completion of the Single Player campaign) was NOT a planned feature of JA?

 

Anyway, we're getting Siege, but that doesn't mean it will be so open ended that we can create full blown COOP missions like we've seen in Serious Sam for example.

 

I HOPE we can though, which is why I hope they release the SP SDK so people can modify the source.

[Matariel]

Brett Toasti, who was the LucasArts producer of Jedi Outcast, is also producing Jedi Academy. Before anyone else asks, Brett informed us that there will not be a cooperative single player aspect

 

Its in that article at jkii.net

But i dont think its possible to make a co-op game the way the jk puzzles work, if there was more than one person in the game, there would be no puzzles, and the trigger events would go all screwy. I wanted to make a SP mod of jk2, but the SP source wasnt released (cant see why, apparently DLL's are 'dangerous' now)

Ahh well, wait for Galaxies to come out for all your co-op fun

Much better platform for it really...

[Wudan]

Scripted events in MP gives us greater options as map creators. It doesn't mean we will be walking through SP together.

 

Raven's code took a bad turn when one of the lead devs authorized some dirty code hacks to enable more things for SP, that is, to remove the restrictions that a client / server based setup has.

 

It is very very likely that this is in the executeable for SP, as it is in JK2, and we can only kludge together a fix for the MP executeable, but it probably won't have all the scripting options of SP, and will most likely prove fruitless.

 

However, this doesn't mean the game will suck.

 

It will be good, but most likely strongly over-shadowed. Putting Star Wars on the title will make this a best-seller. Once you've bought the game, the job is done, and you have encouraged this kind of business practice.

 

There is a problem here, but where it lies is both elusive and deceptive.

[Prime]

I'm just as happy to have no co-op in SP. Leave that kind of thing for MP, IMO.

[jesseg88]

You want Co-op? Easy! Choose a Siege level, have one team all humans and another all NPCs! Tada!

[nomad]

Even if they can just modify the seige type game a little to make a co-op mode only slightly more involved than Team FFa, that would be great.

I mean, Human players as Luke, Han, Chewie, Obi-Wan (?) running through the Death Star, fighting storm troopers, rescuing the Princess and fleeing safely to their ship isn't that much different than capture the flag.

Is it? Well, besides the fact that it would be such a blast and a great addition to the game types.

I do hope it is these types of MP games that they are focusing on adding to the title, or at least making it possible for the editing community to make.

Of course, I'd love to see Co-op as involved as it can be, but I'd absolutely settle for a lesser variety.

 

-nomad

 

MTFBWY

[Emon]

Originally posted by Prime

I'm just as happy to have no co-op in SP. Leave that kind of thing for MP, IMO.

 

Uh, so yeah, it definatly wouldn't be SP any more if it was co-op..

[Wudan]

Originally posted by Emon

Uh, so yeah, it definatly wouldn't be SP any more if it was co-op..

I guess not. Co-Op in this sense refers to playing levels designed for SP with Multiple Players.

 

I can see why they wouldn't have it, it would take their little concept of an SP system and crush it.

[The Count]

I was thinking maybe it would be technologically feasable for a MOD Team to create Co-Op for JA, because there may not be the same restraints in JA MP as there was in JO.

[Wudan]

It very likely wouldn't have ICARUS type scripting, but something like this could be done, just with new maps.

[Prime]

Originally posted by wudan

I guess not. Co-Op in this sense refers to playing levels designed for SP with Multiple Players.

 

I can see why they wouldn't have it, it would take their little concept of an SP system and crush it.

This was what I was refering to Emon

 

As for mods, unless they release the SP source code (which I very much doubt they will), won't it be next to impossible to do this?

[Emon]

Well they do have ICARUS II in MP...

[Prime]

Originally posted by Emon

Well they do have ICARUS II in MP...

What is that exactly? Some sort of scripting language?

[Wacky_Baccy]

Exactly that

 

Quite powerful too, apparently - it may even make MP interesting enough to make me want to play it

 

I hope it's not too cut-down from the SP version, if at all...

[Matariel]

if ICARUS is in MP, it will almost certainly be cut down in features, since in SP its used for camera and cutscene scripting, as well as scripted triggers etc..

 

Scripted mission objectives would be cool tho, allows for lots of game modes, like assault, 'protect the VIP' and anything else you could think of

[Wacky_Baccy]

Posted by Matariel

if ICARUS is in MP, it will almost certainly be cut down in features, since in SP its used for camera and cutscene scripting, as well as scripted triggers etc..

Ah, yes, of course - I completely forgot about that aspect of it x.x

 

Let me rephrase then - "I hope it's not cut-down any more than it absolutely needs to be"

[zERoCooL2479]

It's definitly looking good. I hope they have fixed all their bugs from JO if they use that code as well...

[Reprehence]

FYI

 

There was someone working on a co-op mode for single player maps (at least one's the community created), but they ran into problems because of restrictions in the MP engine that aren't present in the SP engine.

 

Perhaps if Raven will fix the problem during development someone with skillz can make the mod work properly.

 

for more info:

http://www.wiredlampstudios.com/

[boinga1]

Yes, that's (bluntly speaking) 9 month old news, it's...sorta dead. And it's not really a "problem", but likely aneccessity to deal with the difficulties of transmitting game information over vast distances ovber phone lines...you know? If MP was too complex, there'd be massive lag, crashes...etc. (in some cases).

 

Please don't let my bluntness here offend you, that's just...part of me.

[lestat chalmers]

Alright, this may be a bit abstract but bear with me. I'm not a programmer or modder, I just thought I'd fart-arse around at a lan one day.

 

In Moh:AA (Medal of Honour: Allied Assault for those who don't know) which is using the Q3 engine I noticed my mate playing the Omaha beach mission SP. I've ALWAYS wanted to do it co-op, so I typed connect - his IP.

 

Now it may be stupid but I did in fact get in. However I killed him accidentally because of a spawning problem (a spawn frag basically because it was a scripted sequence where he couldn't move and I took his place).

 

Now I know it isn't JK so my question is basically why can't we just add an extra spawn to these maps. Or has this concept just been shut down already? Call me stupid if you must, it can't hurt to just have a go...

[StormHammer]

Welcome to the forums, lestat chalmers. Hope you're enjoying your stay so far.

 

Your question is a good one. The problem is not about adding more spawn points to SP maps to enable other people to join them for a co-op mission, though. It's usually more about how the SP game is designed, particularly when there are scripted events, and when certain pathways are blocked behind a player etc. One player will trigger an event...which may block the path for other players, or because other players are in the same level while something else is going on, I assume the game would do something strange or possibly crash.

 

The other issue is about game balance. For SP, you will be facing X amount of enemies to make the game challenging, and have a fixed number of items in a level, like ammo, health packs etc., that are balanced just right to see one player through the level. If you simply retain X amount of enemies (and items) for a co-op mode, it becomes less challenging in that you have 2 or more people whacking the same number of bad guys, but also presents problems over who gets the ammo, who gets the health.

 

I know that when the mod team for Rune Co-Op were working on trying to get co-op to work in SP, they had to basically redesign the levels, change some of the scripted events, add more spawn points along the way in each level so that when someone died, they spawned back in closer to their team-mates. This is especially useful for getting past those blocked path issues. There were a whole wealth of issues, and only by working very closely with the developer were they able to get it to work. I haven't actually played the mod myself, but from what I've read the co-op version is different from the SP version.

 

So, it is not impossible to play through SP in co-op, but the way games are designed these days, it takes a lot more work to get co-op to actually work effectively when faced with all those triggered events. For SP co-op to work well, the levels have to be designed with that in mind, including more spawn points, but also making sure all players can get past triggered events, have enough health and ammo etc., for everyone to use, and increase the number (or difficulty) of enemies to make it more challenging for a team of players. I haven't even touched on network issues (I'm not a tech-head).

 

It's not impossible to do these things, you understand, but when a developer is working to a tight deadline (which they usually are these days) it's hard to find the extra time and resources to get a co-op mode working effectively. In some ways, it is more like a separate game mode, like MP is to SP.