The Underestimating of Jedi possibilities.

[Krymelord]

I don't know why this ended up in a post about infinite fuel but I am re posting my previous statement here. Partially because I think it has merit but mostly because it is an easy way to get me more posts and out of Bantha Fodder status.

 

 

Here goes

 

This all started with

 

i sure hope the profit from fuel doesn't go to terroists a.k.a Bounty hunters

 

I then said

 

Terrorism:

 

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

 

Bounty Hunter:

 

1. One who hunts predatory animals in order to collect a bounty.

 

2. One who pursues a criminal or fugitive for whom a reward is offered.

 

Mercenary:

 

1. Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain.

 

2. Hired for service in a foreign army.

 

These three definitions are from dictionary.com.

 

IMHO I would say that a bounty hunter falls under both the BH definition as well as a mercenary. Not as someone who commit acts of Terrorism, ie a terrorist.

 

Now a Jedi, on the other hand, does use force and The Force against persons and property with the intention of coercing and intimidating a government (The Empire) for ideological reasons.

 

Therefor...

 

Jedi are terrorists, and I will help the empire eliminate this threat to the ordered and structured society that the Empire provides. As I have said before... No mercy asked nor given.

 

(at least until the Hutt Faction is available, then you're on your own).

[Krymelord]

And finally the point I was trying to make

 

Per my Jedi post...

 

Thanks for the Kudos. I am honestly neutral about the Jedi thing, but as my character, I will not trust them nor help them. I know that these are off the topic of this post but...

 

2 Points

 

1. Think of the timeline and the universe as a whole. There are only 2 Jedi well known throughout the galaxy. Vader and Palpatine. Bad juju all around. These guys are evil, mean and strike fear into the hearts of most, rebels and imperials. These are the Saddam Husseins, Hitlers, Osama Bin Ladens etc. of their universe. Whether you are opposed to the empire or for it, most people would secretly want them dead. They are despised by both their enemies and subjects. I personally plan on playing a loner (Lone Wolf) type of character, who although will be factioned, lives by his own rules. Now in character I would never imagine I would be able to kill a Jedi Master, but if I ran into a Padawan who is still learning to be a Jedi, and who is limited in power, it is an easy decision. Ask yourself this question. "If given the chance, would you kill the next Hitler/Hussein/Bin Laden/Vader before he had the power and ability to stop you?"

In My book it is an easy answer. It is like having the ability to go back in time and prevent WWII.

 

2. The whole Jedi thing is blown out of proportion by wannabe Lukes, which IMHO want all the power of a Jedi to wield (whether for good or evil) so they can be the next badass and save/own the universe. **DISCLAIMER** I am NOT saying that all who choose Jedi will be this way. But a large portion do come across this way.**END DISCLAIMER** The problem is seldom few understand what it will take to become a Jedi knight in this game, let alone a master. Take it from me, I lost a Hardcore Druid lvl 53 in Diablo 2 from a case of lag. It sucked big time. If you want to start from scratch over and over, more power to you. Even further I commend you for your tenacity, but I will almost bet that there will be less than 20 alive Jedi Knights or above per server. And that is being generous. Besides the game being stacked against you, you will then have RPers like myself who in character "feel" it is the right thing to do. Then you have to account for the whole anti Jedi group, who will hunt you no matter what, just because you are a Jedi. All it takes is one person to see you pull out a lightsabre. From then on the rumors will spread, and any person who wants to say they BAGGED a Jedi will hound you every moment you are online. In all essence it will suck to be you. You'll get hounded with

"tells" asking you how you did it and hounded by many more who wish to take it from you. Let alone those who will earn your trust, just to strike you down at your weakest moment. You will be a NOMAD from start to finish. That is not conducive to an enjoyable, multiplay experience in my book. I would compare it to playing Counterstrike on a 28kbps modem. Its not alot of fun, when the majority of you time is spent in the character creation screen (or as a ghost in CS waiting for the next round).

 

Sorry for the sermon.

 

My 2(more like 2 million) Creds

 

 

Sorry if you are reading this for a second time but I didn't want Dagobahn Eagle's original post to turn into a Jedi Knight(mare) Post.

 

 

[-=ReApEr=-]

Well said Krymelord, your post should be stickied because it is the best Jedi recorrection i have seen so far

 

Well done and i hope all the Jedi wannabe's read this

[Wraith 8]

Let me add to this l;ittle convo here

let me just begin to say that i opened a simular thread a year ago:

http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56315&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

 

and it didnt get much nice discussion out of it

Although i agree with you on many points, i think it has no use in defying them their wish. just let them try and find out the hard way man.

 

ill leave this thread open. but keep it nice and clean please.. learn from my mistakes

[-=ReApEr=-]

Ok, Well to anyone who decide's to post in this thread contribute to the subject at hand and no Off Topic

[Krymelord]

I don't want this to turn into a long, drawn out Jedi debate. I just recently came to these forums, frankly because, I can no longer log into the SWG forums due to a program called smartfilter. For some reason the program detects the Sony site as MAture and the US Govt. doesn't allow it to be put on their network. I am forward deployed ATM so I can't go home and get my fix so stuck with the govt network. *sidenote*This is the referece to Wraith 8 And Reaper, they have been emailing me the skill trees and other photos that I normally cannot access.*endnote*

 

This is not to say, that I am not a fan of SWG.net. The site has been bookmarked by me for a while now. It is number 5 down the list of my favorites, but when I have posted and it was regularly, I did it at the Sony site. (Obviously if it would improve my chances of getting into beta I will post there). Some of you might recognize my name from the Sony site, it is the same. I am for the most part opinionated, quick to judge but honestly interested in the good of the game for everyone. I do not think (IMHO) that my desires for SWG are selfish, because I want this to be a great MMO. Emphasis on the multiplayer. I want a lot of people to like and enjoy this game, because that means more interaction for me. This is my worry for the Jedi problem.

 

We all know that the Jedi, after gaining sufficient experience, will be damn near unstopable. They will be easily able to take on 10 to1 even 20 to 1 odds and come out victourious. Obviously for balancing issues, the DEVS have to make this a rare occurence and close to impossible to do. Think of the Navy SEALS, everyone who goes to BUDS knows that it will be difficult and prepare for the worst. Still there is a 75% or greater attrition rate for BUDS candidates. Why because it comes down to the best of the best.

 

Let me start again by saying for those who get the chance and are honestly ready to take a Jedi character to the highest level. I give you my sincerest best wishes and respect. You will do something quite spectacular. Why you ask? Here are the reasons:

 

The moment you pull out the lightsabre for the first time, there had better not be a PC around. Your "unchangeable" character name is now forever marked.

In game conversation in a cantina

 

L337J3D1Dud3: "Man I just saw a guy 5 mins ago take out 10 storm troopers with his light sabre. It was awesome! I can't wait till I get FS slot"

 

W1LLB3J3DIS00N: "Sweet what was his name?"

 

L337J3D1Dud3: "UndercoverKnight"

 

Conversation ends

 

Meanwhile the 4 other wannabe jedis in the cantina have heard this name, and have already added him to their Friends list. They also each sent a tell to 2 other jedi wannabes saying that they found a Jedi.

 

Also 3 Jedi haters have told their friends/PA the name and are planning to get a group and go find him. One of which has logged off momentarily to go post the name and server info on his Anti Jedi PA website.

 

An armorsmith, who overhears the conversation, is competing with another smith to become the supplier for a Bounty Hunter PA, says he has some Jedi info to help improve his standing. The guild also has someone post it on their website, email all the members with PADAWAN FOUND 911, and has 2 BH's tracking UndercoverKnight already.

 

Finally a Bothan musician, who is actually a Covert Imperial spy, sends a tell to the RPing imperial guild he is part of/working for and they are also making plans to bring him down.

 

By the time this is all set up, UndercoverKnight starts getting bombarded with tells from Wannabe Jedis asking, "How did you do it?" "What kewl skills have you learned so far?" "Can I come watch your l337/uber moves?" After 20 mins of that he gets into another fight with Sith agents who are after him. He pulls out his sabre and force powers his way through a tough fight. Being at 30% health, he stops to get a breather. Using his powers has unfortunately flagged him as an enemy to the 10 BH's who are now in view of him.

 

Basically he is at character creation again, 5 mins later. "

 

It might not happen exactly that way, but y'all get the point

 

To me this is a crappy gaming experience and I don't want a 3rd of my server's population up and quitting because they initially set their hopes too high. My example didn't even touch on the difficulties that the game mechanics will place on Jedi.

 

I just want to make sure that half the SWG community doesn't quit after 3 months.

 

That would suck!!!!!

 

[-=ReApEr=-]

That is another Great post Krymelord. Now to your statement at the bottom, one of the reason's that being a Jedi is so hard is to stop the whole community quitting, as they can't be a Jedi.

 

Not everything in the game is about being a Jedi and as i can see from the forum's. So far not many people are bothered about being a Jedi apart from a few People

 

I can ensure you that not many people will be leaving because they can't be a Jedi, Due to the other feature's in the game which has left us hanging.

 

Im not going to go on, But i for one don't really give a dam if im not a Jedi I hope much more people don't as well.

 

Hope that clears up your statement.

 

Side note: Hope you get home soon safely and we can enjoy playing Swg with you.

[UnfrozenCaveman]

Excellent posts, it's great to find someone who can actually talk about the Jedi with intelligence. So many of it here is just, "I'm going to be a jedi and no one is going to stop me." Or, "I have a PA solely on the basis of hunting Jedi."

 

I started a topic like this one on another forum, but that forum was completely slow and I love it here, because you don't have to wait a few days to get a reply on one of your posts.

 

*note* It's all good in well that people will tell everyone what the name of the jedi is, but that's out of game. The only person who will be able to attack the jedi is the person who saw him take out the stormtroopers. It's sort of like a tag, and after five minutes or so this tag will lapse and the jedi is safe again. I got this info after posting this topic on the official boards, I basically was talked to like i was five years old...

[-=ReApEr=-]

Originally posted by UnfrozenCaveman

Excellent posts, it's great to find someone who can actually talk about the Jedi with intelligence. So many of it here is just, "I'm going to be a jedi and no one is going to stop me." Or, "I have a PA solely on the basis of hunting Jedi."

 

I started a topic like this one on another forum, but that forum was completely slow and I love it here, because you don't have to wait a few days to get a reply on one of your posts.

 

*note* It's all good in well that people will tell everyone what the name of the jedi is, but that's out of game. The only person who will be able to attack the jedi is the person who saw him take out the stormtroopers. It's sort of like a tag, and after five minutes or so this tag will lapse and the jedi is safe again. I got this info after posting this topic on the official boards, I basically was talked to like i was five years old...

Well that is what you get from a forum that has 2 Moderator's.

[Jackrabbit]

Their name is still very valuable though. I know if I was a BH, and I found out a Jedi's name, I would probably stalk him for a while.

 

Yes, another good post Kyrmelord. I wish I had a more intelligent response, but alas... I try to stay out of Jedi business.

[Krymelord]

To all who have replied, thanks for the kudos and I appreciate the responses.

 

Jackrabbit: You response is intelligent and for the most part you and Unfrozen Caveman have basically made my point.

 

J and UC as you are now refered to by me , have boiled dowm all my BS into this simple point.

 

 

As UC said the only people who can attack a Jedi are those who witness it. After the first witness, the Jedi is now marked. In my long and drawn out post I just threw in an imaginary, but fairly credible example of what can/will happen. I would almost bet that the First time a Jedi gets flagged, he is totally safe. Unless he/she is an idiot, but that is his/her call.

 

But what about every time after that? That is my point. It is like ratting out the Mob, you will never sleep soundly or start your car without flinching again. Jackrabbit (J) hit the nail on the head!

 

J says:

 

Their name is still very valuable though. I know if I was a BH, and I found out a Jedi's name, I would probably stalk him for a while.

 

Once that name is out, the Jedi will be tracked, eventually he will be nailed.

 

A BH group can have a scout/ranger that hides from the Jedi's view while tracking him. (Ever seen a high level assasin wreak havoc on a group of 25th levels on Shadowbane, it is nasty. You don't even see death coming.) Then as the Jedi gets into a fight, the scout sends the word to his comrades, they charge in over the horizon. They wait until the Jedi is done fighting (or join in) and when the Jedi is recouperating, they attack. UndercoverKnight has just returned to the character creation screen. Or if he is lucky, he wins, but next time they will come back with more. The point is they can come back, he can't.

 

Again to make Unfrozen Caveman's point too, the information needs to be properly disseminated. But I know for a fact in both AO and EQ, guilds are organized to the point of people have pager lists. I was in a guild in EQ that had people on in 15mins for a guild war. It was sick.

 

[-=ReApEr=-]

That basically says it all, that being a Jedi will be extremely hard. For my PA they can message me on msn whenever or phone me and i'll come on if it's something big.

[Xx_Patman_xX]

If I ever miracuasoly (spelling sorry) become a jedi I would try and set up a PA of about 5 guys who have already proven to me that they are jedis. I would have them e-mail me or something and set up a meeting place out in the desert. Then they would show me their lightsaber or whatever. This could work.

[-=ReApEr=-]

True it could, but on your way there one of the Jedis could be tracked. Leading them to your meeting place.

 

You will always be on the run, being hunted. Until one day you get caught and finally killed.

 

Not my kind of life i would want.

[Jackrabbit]

Or, they might think your a BH, and decide not to go with you.

 

Or else you really are a BH, and they do go with you, and the whole time your PMing your entire PA.

[inflamez]

"You will always be on the run, being hunted. Until one day you get caught and finally killed."

 

That's the reason why most of the Jedi will live somewhere near the end of the known world and won't meet their parents that often. :-)

 

Lets say you manage to survive long enough to become Jedi Master. You will be one out of 1.000 or even 10.000 to achieve this ultimate goal. Do you really think a Jedi Master will draw his light sabre just because some bounty hunters get on his nerves? Do you think a Jedi Master will hide himself somewhere in the desert instead of trying to set up a Jedi Senate? If you reached the rank of a Jedi Master you are probably one of the most skilled players in the whole SWG universe and taking in account that it took you at least 1 - 2 years you should have some trustworthy friends at that point.

 

The biggest problem will be your own impatience to finally introduce yourself to the public as the first Jedi (Master). :-)

[-=ReApEr=-]

Indeed, but if your a Jedi master you will be the toughest and strongest player in the galaxie. And it will take more then a few bounty hunters to take you down.

[Kaiser Spaso]

Can't a Top elite BH take out a jedi.......in a long grueling battle

[-=ReApEr=-]

Originally posted by Kaiser Spaso

Can't a Top elite BH take out a jedi.......in a long grueling battle

 

Yes, if he was strong and had lots of skill in bounty hunting. It would take time though.

[Jackrabbit]

A Jedi can take out a number of players of the same "lvl". That's one of the reasons Jedi is so hard to obtain, because they're very powerful. But, there are always circumstances. To put it bluntly (no pun intended), if the player playing the Jedi is stoned out of his mind, he might lose.

[-=ReApEr=-]

Originally posted by Jackrabbit

A Jedi can take out a number of players of the same "lvl". That's one of the reasons Jedi is so hard to obtain, because they're very powerful. But, there are always circumstances. To put it bluntly (no pun intended), if the player playing the Jedi is stoned out of his mind, he might lose.

 

But if your a Jedi master stoned out of your mind, you will probally own anyway due to your power.

[setsuko]

It's all a matter of numbers and tactics. Yes, one jedi master will make slized bread out of one bounty hunter. Against a whole firing squad, the jedi will propably sooner or later wind up as a sieve in the local cafeteria. So the whole discussion is really not relevant, it is all down to whether the jedi is smarter and knows how to avoid getting surrounded, outmanouvered and outnumbered, or if the bounty hunters are smarter, and knows how to turn their sheer numbers, firepower and position to bear.

 

The difference is that while the bounty hunters can learn from the experience, and set up a better trap next time, the jedi player who is outwitted will have to start over from scratch. So yes, I think the odds are in the bounty hunters favour.

 

And what's all this with the bounty hunters vs jedi i see all over? Like it'll ONLY be bounty hunters who'll try to put a hole or two in the next jedi they see. I'd say you'll see even more carbineers, commandos and riflemen cappin' jedi ass. After all, there's really three reasons to go jedihunting:

 

A: For the money. Surely, you'll be rewarded by the empire for keeping the jedi population down.

 

B: For the glory. Pure bragging rights. Downing a jedi knight or two will show people that you truly have m4d skillz.

 

C: Frustration. And it surprises me how many who don't take this in regard. Say that becoming jedi is your biggest dream, and you've been toiling with your marksman for half a year, travelling to all planets in search of a way to activate your FCS. Then, you see some snot who runs around with a jedi. Wouldn't you get frustrated, enough to attempt to shoot the git? Thought so.

[Krymelord]

Nail on the head, Setsuko is just the hammer.

[setsuko]

How could you be so fast? Your reply came up before I got to see my post!

 

EDIT: oh, and for the bragging rights: this counts even more for non-bounty hunters. After all, who demands the most respect; the bounty hunter who gutted a jedi, or the chef who did it?

[-=ReApEr=-]

Originally posted by setsuko

How could you be so fast? Your reply came up before I got to see my post!

 

EDIT: oh, and for the bragging rights: this counts even more for non-bounty hunters. After all, who demands the most respect; the bounty hunter who gutted a jedi, or the chef who did it?

 

Dead on, even though bounty hunters would brag non bounty hunters will brag much much more.

 

As 1:Bounty hunters are discreet, and are sometimes very inclosed.

 

Anyway nice post set, we been missing you around here bro.