lightsabers in multi same as 1.04?

[Emon]

Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]

Yeah, very late we realized that the saber battles, while cool and dramatic and drawn out in Duel, were just impractical in FFA and CTF since there's no reason to stand there and fight someone for 3 minutes. Especially since someone else will just come along and blow the both of you away with a rocket. So we have, in fact, increased the saber damage in non-Duel modes to make saber combat faster-paced in the faster-paced game modes.

 

<3 x2

[Luc Solar]

That must the teh BESTEST NEWS EVAR!!!

 

Weak sabers for duel, lethal for CTF/FFA. Excellent. Wonderful.

 

I think I'm going to cry a little now..

[HertogJan]

Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]

Yeah, very late we realized that the saber battles, while cool and dramatic and drawn out in Duel, were just impractical in FFA and CTF since there's no reason to stand there and fight someone for 3 minutes. Especially since someone else will just come along and blow the both of you away with a rocket. So we have, in fact, increased the saber damage in non-Duel modes to make saber combat faster-paced in the faster-paced game modes.

 

Wow, with that news, I think we'll manage till the release It's great!!!

[Thazac]

Thans Raven! And thanks again! Finally we can enjoy the saber in FFA/CTF as it was meant to.

[taboo]

Is defence breaking going to work any differently than in jk2 1.04? Will regular light or medium attacks have any chance of breaking anothers saber defence?

[mtrixman]

AWSOMENESS!!! :D :D

[mtrixman]

i was wondering how much damage the lightsaber will have? will it be like 1.02? will it have one hit kills like the backstab in 1.03? or will it just be a little more than what it is now in 1.04

[yolkboy]

Yes! Increased Saber Damage I hope JA addresses the blocking issue. Don't want an opponent's lucky hit to get in just because of the programing. Flaying around with a light saber doesn't cut it for me But I can't wait for JA!

[ImmolatedYoda]

and um...isnt everyone forgetting that double-bladed and dual sabers were added to the game? i mean, i assume those will be available in MP, too...not like i ever play MP, but i think the whole issue (yes, i know Mike has said its changed) matters less if these two new weapon options are in MP.

[ryudom]

no

[Prime]

Originally posted by ImmolatedYoda

and um...isnt everyone forgetting that double-bladed and dual sabers were added to the game? i mean, i assume those will be available in MP, too...not like i ever play MP, but i think the whole issue (yes, i know Mike has said its changed) matters less if these two new weapon options are in MP.

What difference does that make? There is still an issue with damage either being too high in duels or too low in FFA/CTF regardless of those other sabers. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the double sabers and lightstaff would suffer from the same problem as the single lightsaber?

[ILR]

Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]

Just set g_saberDamageScale to 2 or 3. In any case, Emon is right, it's not like either of them, Rich Whitehouse and I worked to make MP saber combat just like SP saber combat in JA, so everyone should be pleased, I think.

 

THEY SPEAK! (amazing)

 

I think most people's question was "why isn't it the same exact code? Why doesn't it handle exactly like SP?" And even with the new release I'm sure it'll be close, but the question still remains... why does it have to be just close? I always suspected that it was you guys protecting the poor 56kers and slow ass computers some gamers will be using. In JO SP the saber combat was extremely exact... I can easily imagine the slightest hair of lag time making any duel unplayable. Its like how Halo PC wont be having co-op mode. I'm pretty sure gearbox said it was because the NPC AI needed everything to be on one system, because of how complex it was. And who in gods name is going to play split screen on a computer?

 

Anyhoo, am I on the right track here? Did you guys soften up the MP gameplay so there wasn't sync problems to high hell?

 

BTW: MAKE A MP DEMO!!!!!!!!!!! PLZ!!!!!!!!! I HAVE FIFTY DOLLARS FOR YOU SITTING ON MY DESK BUT YOU MUST HAVE AN MP DEMO!

[ChangKhan]

Originally posted by ILR

"why isn't it the same exact code? Why doesn't it handle exactly like SP?"... why does it have to be just close?

 

For one thing, SP and MP are totally different codebases. In SP, we don't have to worry about networking and can cheat a lot. For another thing, there's lag in MP that you never get in SP because you're playing over a network. But, mainly, the reason it was different in Jedi Knight 2 was because we didn't have time to really try to make them exactly the same - we kind of co-developed the saber combat in MP and SP. We didn't think it was that bad of a thing since MP gameplay demands different things than SP gameplay (hence the drastic differences in force powers, as well).

 

But, in JA, we've tried to make them as similar as possible. There are a couple small differences, still, mostly just to handle certain moves that would be impractical or extremely unbalancing in MP. Damage was tweaked in MP, too, to feel right in each gametype. Aside from that, you should find that saber combat in MP feels like SP (as much as it can, operating over Internet lag conditions, etc.)

 

Originally posted by ILR

I always suspected that it was you guys protecting the poor 56kers and slow ass computers some gamers will be using.

 

Not really. If the networking and prediction is done right, that doesn't enter into it. Obviously, if your ping is super-high, you'll have a disadvantage but there's nothing we can do about that, code-wise.

[ImmolatedYoda]

Originally posted by Prime

What difference does that make? There is still an issue with damage either being too high in duels or too low in FFA/CTF regardless of those other sabers. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the double sabers and lightstaff would suffer from the same problem as the single lightsaber?

 

how does it stand do reason that the double and dual with suffer from the same problem?

[Obi-Wan X]

Lightsabers should kill within 2 to 3 hits period. Heck, one hit should end a fight the majority of the time.

 

I want the lightsaber to be quite a deadly weapon. Im in favor of long, dramatic lightsaber fights. But you don't need to tweak saber damage to accomplish this, this can be done by the skill of fighters. As it SHOULD be.

[Obi-Wan X]

Oops! didn't read some of the previous posts....good news indeed!!!!

 

 

[ILR]

Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]

For one thing, SP and MP are totally different codebases. In SP, we don't have to worry about networking and can cheat a lot.

 

Your talking about the quake 3 engine code, right? Yeah... if all the network code is already there and you just shelled out for the engine liscence rewriting it would seem quite drastic.

 

I'm serious about that MP interactive demo. Caps are off... I'll stop being annoying... Even if you just hand out one jedi model with one saber color and limited force powers on one level with only one MP mode available... I really really really need to play some MP extensively to see if I want to buy this game. I'm confident in JA... but I want to be absolutely sure.

[Jeff 42]

I'm all for increasing saber damage from 1.04, but there is a problem if you make the saber always a 1-2 hit kill. You'll get FFA games where all anyone does is run around like an idiot holding down mouse1, and this will unfortunately be an effective way of getting lots of kills. Just look at the "Chop Shop REALISTIC SABER DAMAGE" server.

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by Jeff 42

I'm all for increasing saber damage from 1.04, but there is a problem if you make the saber always a 1-2 hit kill. You'll get FFA games where all anyone does is run around like an idiot holding down mouse1, and this will unfortunately be an effective way of getting lots of kills. Just look at the "Chop Shop REALISTIC SABER DAMAGE" server.

 

 

 

our duel server has it g_SaberDamageScale 2

and

g_SaberTraceSaberFirst 0

 

and neither results in a "flailing blue stance noob of doom!" fest I first thought it would when I changed it over.

 

I’m not sure what the Chop Shop servers settings are but I think they are jacked much higher than a damage scale of 2.

 

I like damage scale at 2 and trace off because it allows “clean” hits to actually register (no auto parry) and when the saber does score a clean direct hit, it does serious (not instant death) damage.

 

Actually most players don’t even realize we have altered settings until they walk head first into a lunge and instead of losing say 20-30 hp and their shields they lose their shields and 50-60 hp.

 

And really, I think we can all agree that 1.04 mp sabers are not really something any of us who play really fear getting hit by unless it’s something like a rage + DFA.

 

I’m not going to try and second guess them but I’m willing to bet we will see something like damage scale 1 for duels and damage scale 2 for CTF/TeamFFA/FFA, which would make perfect sense because the saber is still lethal as hell but it’s not this “barely graze a guy and it’s instant death” type of ordeal super jacked damage would cause.

[yolkboy]

Originally posted by Jeff 42

I'm all for increasing saber damage from 1.04, but there is a problem if you make the saber always a 1-2 hit kill. You'll get FFA games where all anyone does is run around like an idiot holding down mouse1, and this will unfortunately be an effective way of getting lots of kills. Just look at the "Chop Shop REALISTIC SABER DAMAGE" server.

I played there a few times and like you said... you get people running around waving their lightsaber constantly. I just hope JA has a better blocking system.

[jarek]

i hope the lightsaber is more than a plastic toy this time around. maybe we'll have powerful sabers and a decent blocking system...one that isnt random.

[Grey_Wanderer]

Originally posted by jarek

i hope the lightsaber is more than a plastic toy this time around. maybe we'll have powerful sabers and a decent blocking system...one that isnt random.

 

 

It wasn't random... if you were facing your opponent and s/he was using yellow(not the dfa) or blue (not the lunge) the thrust was blocked. Period. You sit there all day and attack a player with normal blue strokes... wouldn't do anything. Red was the only style that can go thru the defenses of another player.

 

My main worry is that the double edged lightsaber and dual saber styles will be treated like yellow or blue thus making them highly inneffective against an expierienced player.

[Obi-Wan X]

I wouldn't say it was random either. If I placed my self right in a good clean blocking position then I would block a strike everytime unless it was red stance.

 

Then again if I move slightly to the side or look slightly away from the opponent, he'd hit me. I hope a manual parry/counter system is available for those who want it.

[ryudom]

Originally posted by Jeff 42

I'm all for increasing saber damage from 1.04, but there is a problem if you make the saber always a 1-2 hit kill. You'll get FFA games where all anyone does is run around like an idiot holding down mouse1, and this will unfortunately be an effective way of getting lots of kills. Just look at the "Chop Shop REALISTIC SABER DAMAGE" server.

 

sure some peopel get alot of kills but its cause theres other noobs flailing there sabers around too. anyone with any skill can walk in there and triple the flailing nooblies score

 

edit: btw are you oE jeff?

[Kurgan]

See, this is why I like you guys!

 

I whine about something and then it turns out, the option is THERE I just didn't realize it (First Person Lightsaber in MP, Dismemberment in MP, now this with the higher saber damage). And somebody will politely point out my mistake. ; )

 

And this is great news about JA. I guess too many people (including myself) just didn't know and as a result we caused ourselves unnecessary headaches. JK2 gets better all the time...

 

 

Thanks Mike!