JediCrow Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 ...maybe people wouldn't resort to "other means" to get a taste of this game before they can buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taekwondo joe Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 yeah so lets blame our illegal actions on lucas arts, lol, "Its your fault for not giving me a demo, its all you fault!!!!!!!!!!!" rigt, it would have maybe toned down some of the dling, but truth is, people are people, if something is freem they will go for it even if its not right, demo like said, would have not totally knocked this problem off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Originally posted by JediCrow ...maybe people wouldn't resort to "other means" to get a taste of this game before they can buy it. You mean, of course, that they wouldn't resort to "other means" to get a taste of the game before they download the final release version. Yeah! ... and if they gave it away for free, and set up tons of servers, I bet they'd get more people in MP, too ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Originally posted by taekwondo joe yeah so lets blame our illegal actions on lucas arts, lol, "Its your fault for not giving me a demo, its all you fault!!!!!!!!!!!" rigt, it would have maybe toned down some of the dling, but truth is, people are people, if something is freem they will go for it even if its not right, demo like said, would have not totally knocked this problem off And don't forget the CD-Key argument- "if they don't use a CD-key it's their own fault that it gets pirated". Blame-shifting ... the choice of a new generation ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Actually it is their own fault, he never said that he was a beta pirater. If you don't put some sort of protection on your game you can pretty much be assured that some one, eventually, will come and crack it or whatever they do. It's people's own fault that THEY pirate it, but it's Raven's fault that it is pirated. If it's not their fault then don't ask them to put a CD-Key on it, because they're not the party who caused the problem. It's a 25/75 problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Originally posted by babywax Actually it is their own fault, he never said that he was a beta pirater. If you don't put some sort of protection on your game you can pretty much be assured that some one, eventually, will come and crack it or whatever they do. It's people's own fault that THEY pirate it, but it's Raven's fault that it is pirated. If it's not their fault then don't ask them to put a CD-Key on it, because they're not the party who caused the problem. It's a 25/75 problem. I never said, nor implied, that JediCrow was a pirate. What I said is that the blame of piracy belongs on the pirate. Your rationale is identical to the rape defense about the way a woman was dressed - 'She was asking for it'. I don't buy it. People have cracked programs that have combinations of software keys and hardware locks, stuff that uses a CD-key ... just about everything. I believe that they should have a CD-key because it would better protect their revenue. But LucasArts have to define their own revenue model. All retail-oriented businesses have to account for 'shrinkage', a term that encompasses losses due to breakage, mispackaging and (major component) theft. It may be that LA has a larger tolerance in their budget for loss than other vendors, I don't know. But - I don't buy that it is a shared blame thing. If you watch a CD store and find that they leave the truck open while unloading, is it partially their fault that you found a way to steal CD's? NO, YOU are the thief. There are things they could do to lower the amount of loss, but that is their choice - they are not accomplices to your theft. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprehence Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 These "they deserve it" arguments are insipid. I have yet to see a game out there that wasn't pirated - it is pretty much impossible to actually secure software in that way. Hackers have busted every form of SW anti-piracy out there. So the argument that SW makers aren't making an effort to protect their software utterly misses the point. The only anti-piracy that has been in the least effective is for MP using key servers and the like. Simply because you find a way around security doesn't give you the right to violate it. If I have a deadbolt on my door, you don't have the right to enter my house even though you can pick it - or even if I don't lock it. In the south you might get a face full of shot with that kind of attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaledDur Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 LA should have a CD-key, but not for copy protection. A master server that tracks ID's so that servers can actually ban people effectively is needed. I actually applaud LA for not trying to impliment some sort of advanced copy protection. On more than one occasion, games have failed to work properly on one of my PC's because of their copy protection. In the end, crackers are going to get past any countermeasures and distribute the game. If LA has truly seen that this is just the way it is, and has decided not to hurt the rest of us just because of a few miscreants, then more power to them. About the most effective protection against mass warez distributing I have seen is Counter-Strike. Its an online only game, you need to have a CD key, and that key needs to authenticate with the central WON server. Sure there are keygens, but last I heard the generated keys usually dont work with WON, and if they do, they get invalidated after some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Actually, a demo might even backfire. Let's say you play the demo level, and like it, and decide you want more. You hear about the warez version, lose control, and download it. Without the demo, most people will never hear of JA until it's released. *Note- I refer to the average person, not anyone on these forums, who has obviously heard of JA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taekwondo joe Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 well, in my opinon, i dont cd-key deos anything at all in the way of pirating, becuase people make cd key-genorators left and right for games, if a game has a cd key, and you dl it, then its a matter of just dling the cd key gen with it, there is really no sucority out there in those, does hardly any good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Originally posted by taekwondo joe well, in my opinon, i dont cd-key deos anything at all in the way of pirating, becuase people make cd key-genorators left and right for games, if a game has a cd key, and you dl it, then its a matter of just dling the cd key gen with it, there is really no sucority out there in those, does hardly any good That was the point - if someone decides they're going to steal your Mercedes, they know what to do to steal it. No security system - especially in a $50 game - is unbreakable ... some amount of TRUST is required - which is fortunately well placed in the majority of gamers (again, unlike a newly vocal minority here ... ) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taekwondo joe Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 some genious needs to get ritch and make a unbeatble gaming system cd key were no one can steal the games any more! i think it will be me, nah, i suck at comps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Originally posted by taekwondo joe some genious needs to get ritch and make a unbeatble gaming system cd key were no one can steal the games any more! i think it will be me, nah, i suck at comps I have seen it in software - it uses a CD key, hardware key, and then does an encrypted key based on your hardware config which you then send to the developer to get a complementary (i.e.matching) code, and then a small file which authorizes your system. You can use the software on 1 computer. Ever, or pay $$. Maybe it would be easier if people would be honest. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprehence Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Those security systems are pretty expensive though - and kind of pain - and plenty of them have been hacked as well - though they're more difficult. For a $50 game it would raise the price and headache quite a bit - probably start a protest. It's interesting to note that only popular games - i.e. those that make a lot of money for the publisher anyway - are the one's that are piloted most - by far. It's those games that are kind of in the middle that suffer the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarus Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I think if/when im producing a game ill release a 'leaked' version that'll delete the users harddrive. Surly there is some legal info that'll protect me since they weren't suppose to have it anyway. I see no reason to fight piracy with CD keys and crap....simply release and circulate 'bad' copies of the game. Then anyone trying to steal it would really be taking a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Well TCPA is supposed to do all that, it's practicly unbeatable they say!! But the downside is; it lets whatever company is in the TCPA project sneak into your computer :mad: So much for privacy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taekwondo joe Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 hey thats a good idea, linkin park when emteora came out, or before i mean, they on kazza released a whole bunch of fake songs, so no one that owned kazza would get the real thing, so having all these fakes on there discoraged people from dling it! same thing you can do with a game, let it leak, but have the leaked versions be fake so no one knows if they are getting the real thing or not, less downloads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Originally posted by Reprehence Those security systems are pretty expensive though Yes, imaging a $350 JK4 ... and LA would get the same profit per game as $50 for JA ... It's interesting to note that only popular games - i.e. those that make a lot of money for the publisher anyway - are the one's that are piloted most - by far. It's those games that are kind of in the middle that suffer the most. Exactly ... it is games like No One Lives Forever - it was right at the top rated games last year. I read somewhere that it was pirated widely. I didn't intentionally wait for it, but after a few months it was already $19.99. So you have a game that was excellent and a critical hit, with lousy sales and lots of pirating! That is sad! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 A CD key would more than likely only postpone a successful warez version coming out, but a keyserver would make distributing illegal copies of the game a hollow victory for the pirates. Their copies would be limited to offline or LAN play only, thus baiting them to buy the real thing to get true multiplayer. This has been done successfully before (and has been mentioned in a dozen similar threads to this one). keys could be banned from the master server (either by admins temporarily, or by LA permanently), and no key could be logged in more than once (making sharing copies of the game impractical for most people). This is an old topic, but it's entirely a moot point when an unfinished version of a game is leaked and then pirated. Whatever your opinion of the subject, the fact of the matter is, we're keeping it off OUR forums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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