Paragon_Leon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 lukeiamyourdad, these forums aren't dying ... they are shooked up, beaten about, loved and loathed. Yes, there will be those that will uphold a chivalrous standard and no, not everyone will. The problem usually is that those not willing to conform to ethical behavior are the most vocal of the bunch, attracting the most attention in the process. Now i'm aware of things being a bit farther from that point, but i certainly wouldn't say these boards are dying. After all, isn't this one of the most eloquent, passionate and engaging threads in a very long time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad Those forums are dying and all those mods are doing is driving them to an even faster death. I wouldn't say dieing...no...not at all. What with the new S&M (SAM AND MAX) game and the new Full Throttle game I figure they'll get a full newbie invasion sometime soon and those oldbies will have to crack...either that or go nuts...if they havn't already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 S&M game??? Maybe I read that wrong.... I'm going to spare the novel and get straight to the points. The MODs from those forums are just plain rude and mean. They have no regard as far as human decency goes. Obviously they feel that they are above "very, very standard forum rules" I for one am sick of the blatent flaming these mods feel so compelled to impress upon every single member of the forums that are not in their "clik". Go ahead and write down a bunch of crap justifying why these MODS should be allowed to treat people like sh!t but when you get down to it. They should be allowed to treat people like that in their forums but when they come to ours and they start flaming and outright being trolls they should be banned immediatly from ever visiting that forum again. As far as Ray Goes. Leave him the hell alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Shutt Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I don't know where you get the idea that our forums are "dying". About a month ago, The Harbour was the worst forum on LucasForums. Its content consisted almost entirely of meaningless crap from the likes of Natty, and this was driving away new posters. Since the MI mods started cracking down, the Harbour has become almost readable, and the on-topic forum is the liveliest its been in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I don't think that it died because of Natty's posts, it died during that time of course. But people didn't start going there until it started getting all of the attention. A lot of people were linked there by threads etc. I think that's how it came back to life. People went there and stayed. I agree with Shutt. The forums are not dying and I really do agree with some that Natty should get a blog and link that to her sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Mort-Hog Yes, the point I was making is that there is nothing wrong with that. When you make a toy, you own that toy and you expect to be able to play with it however you like, even if other people wouldn't play with it the same way as you do. It is a key principle of capitalism. (yes, I realise that comparing the forum to a toy is an unfortunate analogy, and I don't mean that mods and admins are cruel little children that treat their forums as their little playthings, it just serves as a useful analogy for ownership. the house one is better.) if you make/ own a weapon and you can use the weapon however you like .. ? .. this may work particially in PRIVACY .. but in public? and there is nothing wrong with that??? i think in the nowadays 'world' there are a lot of things people doing in their 'privacy' which are 'wrong'. but thanks democracy we have the right to bother people without getting bothered ourselfes. what i want to say is: OK, it's their forum, they moderate it, they run it. therefore i cannot really tell them WHAT they have to do. but for the matter this is a public forum they have to accept critics, positive and negative. and it IS wrong how they handle some things. it IS wrong from the standpoint of a openminded human being. it IS far from 'normal' standard of communication. it IS complete *noingnoing* But YES they have the right to do it the way they do. (i think nothing is said here against doing a mod-jobs duties) [edit] Carl: Natty really talks alot. and a blog would be perhabs some good idea. And RayJones can be annoing sometimes (most time :) <- that's what i mean... ) .. But did you (or some others) ever think/thought of telling something the NICE way? Is that the way you want to be treaten somewhere else? Is that the way you treat you children? Is that a way we should treat each other? Communication should be one of our big advances.. or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I'm very impressed, my friends. With a little background in mind, I'd like to tell you all that I've spent the time to read every post in this thread, examine the examples, and think before blurting anything out that I will regret. All I ask is that my opinion, whether you agree or not, is respected. I, as an individual, can express my opinion on a forum. Mort-Hog is entirely right, unfortunately. My opinion can be regarded with the utmost importance, and can be debated lightly, or it can be maimed, insulted, and taken so far out of context that it would make me feel, and appear to the general public, like an imbicile. It's all a matter of the administration of the forum. Now, some of you may be aware that I am part of another forum, and I hold a staff position there. It will remain unmentioned for the remainder of this post. I speak from experience when I say that it's extremely simple to criticize. LucasForums has done a great deal for me, by providing an outlet for my emotions, and I've had an incredible experience here. There have been some rough spots, but those are inevitable. I've grown to know many, many people, and I feel as if I have gained a family online. Yes, you guys mean a great deal to me. For how much fire LF has been under, it has done a great job. Forum administration is a hard task - external conflicts add to the stress of internal conflicts. The conflicts between staffers, the fights you never see. Time is the ultimate jury; keep this in mind. But for now...I commend LucasForums, all of its staffers, and the general public. Again - No forum is a democracy. The ultimate answer gets put forth through the administration. Now, the administration has choices: They can either please the public, or do whatever they damn well wish. Either way, they'll get users coming back. And I'll reinforce this fact: when you have to make that choice, no matter how hard you try, you inevitably will choose to do whatever you damn well please. The staff of LF, with conflicts internally and externally, will do what they please. Whether it is fair or not - it's the final say. This case is a perfect example - the staffers associated with the MI area have taken it upon themselves to do what they please. Whether or not their conduct is appropriate is irrelevant - the LucasForums administration will ultimately decide how appropriate they feel the staff should act. There is not a single thing you can do about it. Petitioning the system? That's ludicrious. You'll be causing more external conflict - conflict that will ultimately hinder your fate. The above is the simple, clean cut reality. I abide by reality. My opinion, however, differs on many situations. I, for one, do not understand why our staffers feel the need to host pictures blatantly showing the disregard, as well as inappropriate disrespect, for their own kin, as shown here. This, in my opinion, is disgraceful. But remember that little bit about reality? Does my opinion matter? No. This is not a democracy. What will I do about it? I'll sit back, laugh a bit at myself, and others, and enjoy the ride. That is what LucasForums is here to do; give everyone a sense of relaxation, a bit of fun, and a bit of friendship. Give it a try, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by STTCT S&M game??? Maybe I read that wrong.... S&M = Sam and Max. Honestly this has more been about supermods/mods from one "camp" clashing with other supermods/mods from another "camp" than anything else. The insults and bad attitudes have just happened to affect alot of others. The much-vaunted "crack-down" on the Harbor just makes me roll my eyes. Anyone can go look in the MI Feedback Center and see two things in separate threads... 1) The Harbor mods/supermods defend a thread about porn stars (posted by an old Harbor member). This is heavily spiced with mocking comments about the "Star Wars mods" who want to close it. Moderation Feedback 2) The Harbor mods/supermods close a joke thread about why there are no monkeys in North America (posted by Zoom Rabbit, of "Star Wars forums"). When everyone pointed out (truthfully) that it was superior to pretty much everything else in the Harbor (I mean hey, at least it was funny!) the mods/supermods decided to do their "crackdown". Seeking to appeal a closure It left alot of people scratching their heads. (...) There is not a single thing you can do about it. Petitioning the system? That's ludicrious. You'll be causing more external conflict - conflict that will ultimately hinder your fate. (...) The simple truth is, the more people whine about something, the more likely it is to get noticed. Stupid antics help, too. Didn't you notice how the points system went away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 My Glow petion helped? It did not hinder the us. In fact it was made so that we could keep it and for those who did not like to see the glow they could turn it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Redwing The simple truth is, the more people whine about something, the more likely it is to get noticed. Stupid antics help, too. Didn't you notice how the points system went away? The stupid antics were performed mostly, but certainly not entirely, by LucasForum's very own staffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Jedi220 Does my opinion matter? No. This is not a democracy. What will I do about it? [/Quote] how much does one opinion matter in a democracy? I'll sit back, laugh a bit at myself, and others, and enjoy the ride. That is what LucasForums is here to do; give everyone a sense of relaxation, a bit of fun, and a bit of friendship. Give it a try, folks. indeed, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Well that's what we've been saying. How can you sit back when you have to worry about someone coming along and flaming you and THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE STAFF. it is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by STTCT Well that's what we've been saying. How can you sit back when you have to worry about someone coming along and flaming you and THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE STAFF. it is absurd. Absurd, yes. But if it bothers you enough, you'll finally get sick of it. And you'll consider your options...chances are you'll petition first, but you'll realize it won't get far. Originally posted by RayJones how much does one opinion matter in a democracy? If you can inspire enough people to start thinking instead of being force-fed...one's opinion means a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Jedi220 The stupid antics were performed mostly, but certainly not entirely, by LucasForum's very own staffers. LucasForum's very own staffers, for the most part, started this entire conflict. My point stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Redwing LucasForum's very own staffers, for the most part, started this entire conflict. My point stands. I'm just pointing it out, not proving you wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Why do you think that it wouldn't go far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Well, remember when I was talking about how the staff ultimately decides to do what they choose, and how they have every right too? Well, petitioning a hack in the forum software is one thing - petitioning people is an entirely different ball game. It's a risky one, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 yes it is a sticky situation if you want to know what i'm thinking about this I think that they hate being apart of "Star wars" forums. So just like the point system they are going to abuse it till they finnaly get their way. The only problem is that they are not abusing points anymore, they are abusing real people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Shutt Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Redwing The much-vaunted "crack-down" on the Harbor just makes me roll my eyes. Anyone can go look in the MI Feedback Center and see two things in separate threads... 1) The Harbor mods/supermods defend a thread about porn stars (posted by an old Harbor member). This is heavily spiced with mocking comments about the "Star Wars mods" who want to close it. This situation wasn't really about defending that thread. It was a stupid thread, and under the new MI moderation standards, it would probably have been closed due to its utter inanity. But that was a call for the MI mods to make. It wasn't obi-wan13's place to just swoop in and close it, just because he found it objectionable. Originally posted by Redwing 2) The Harbor mods/supermods close a joke thread about why there are no monkeys in North America (posted by Zoom Rabbit, of "Star Wars forums"). When everyone pointed out (truthfully) that it was superior to pretty much everything else in the Harbor (I mean hey, at least it was funny!) the mods/supermods decided to do their "crackdown". In my opinion, it was a mistake to close that thread. But since the thread was reopened two days later, I don't see what the outstanding issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by STTCT yes it is a sticky situation if you want to know what i'm thinking about this I think that they hate being apart of "Star wars" forums. So just like the point system they are going to abuse it till they finnaly get their way. The only problem is that they are not abusing points anymore, they are abusing real people. You're quite right. But coming from the opposite point of view (don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting it, just stating it), who are we to correct the people who are supposed to keep us in line? It seems as though forums in general are in desperate need of a "The people reserve the right to remove or repair their government" clause. However...it's not even remotely applicable, therefore useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 How is calling someone names keeping us in line? Its abuse and it should not be ignored simply because nobody has the balls to call attention to it. It is NOT setting a very good example for the new posters to see mod's calling other's names or mocking them just for pure spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 It wasn't obi-wan13's place to just swoop in and close it, just because he found it objectionable. Hold up here, Shutt. You mean to tell me that it's not a Super Mod's job to close a thread he deems inappropriate by forum rules, despite the fact that he is a super moderator? See, l understand now that you're right by technicality - LucasForums lacks a generic, global set of rules, making the job of a super moderator extremely difficult. Under that assumption though, you could say it was inappropriate for mercatfat to close an unnamed game thread, seeing as though it was objectionable to his standards, but could be part of the Swamp's nature, because of one of these ritualistic sterotypes. But should I dare propose that LF forums be united as one? Under one set of rules? To actually be kind to each other, without stereotype? *gasp* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 You know it is very confusing that each individual forum has its own interpretation of SPAM. It is very hard for other's to come post in that area if there is not a standard guideline for all the forums to adhere to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Jedi220 who are we to correct the people who are supposed to keep us in line? we are humans. we are involved. (who are they calling someone an idiot?) the actual date is august, 5th in the year 2003!! that should be enough reason for us to step up and ask: is this the way we should treat each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Shutt Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Jedi220 Hold up here, Shutt. You mean to tell me that it's not a Super Mod's job to close a thread he deems inappropriate by forum rules, despite the fact that he is a super moderator? Exactly. The Harbour is not his forum, and it's not his place to decide what is appropriate there. That's what the MI forums' designated mods are for. Originally posted by Jedi220 But should I dare propose that LF forums be united as one? Under one set of rules? To actually be kind to each other, without stereotype? *gasp* We've been over this before, and we have no interest in running our forums by an over-reaching set of global rules. Our autonomy is very important to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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