FK | unnamed Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Maybe clumsy was not the best choice of words. How about much more restricted and slower so as to accommodate those with slower reflexes or those who chose to use a game pad and/or joystick? The major speed boost in the overall game physics and the *unrestricted player movement (compare the nerfed player roll in sp to the crisp and fast one in mp for an easy example) can not be denied. Imagine how utterly boring and mundane a game of CTF on warring factions would be with sp physics. It would be like watching a game of senior citizen scooter tag. I'm not saying sp physics are bad, I'm simply saying for those of us that thrive on the speed and freedom that came with mp physics, sp is really a watered down, slower restrictive experience for us. Sp really reminded me of the typical “console FPS” feel you get when you try to play games like RTCW on say, a PS2. Sluggish, unresponsive and just flat out slow, and that should not be the case on a PC platform when using a mouse & keyboard set up, but it was when compared to mp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by GC256 I meant fix meaning that MP and SP would be similiar that's all. Are you sure that more people play JK2 SP than MP? I highly doubt that. Have you been in MP lately? There are about 480 servers and plenty of people playing in them. Maybe I missunderstood you but I don't see how people can still be playing SP 1.5 yrs after release. MP however is looking as good as ever. What Emon said: Originally posted by Emon Singleplayer still makes up the bulk of the gaming world. People buy a game, play the SP, and that's it. Think about it - there are probably a couple or so thousand people playing JO on average, right? And, what - hundreds of thousands or so of copies of the game sold? Imagine if you could figure out the number of individuals who had actually played MP - more than say a couple of hours, since less than that is like not playing at all. What do you figure - 25,000? 50,000? Again, a vast minorty of the SP numbers. That doesn't mean that if you could poll all purchasers of JKII you would find that same balance. Most people play a game and then shelve it - many people never finish. I know I'm a rarity in that I actually HAVE played JKII SP again and again for the last 1.5 years. Most games I shelve after finishing, but many I leave on my HD in case I decide to pop some heads in SoFII, for example. But also people don't all buy games when they first come out, they often get them later or just when they happen upon them. So you may have an equal balance between MP and SP now. I'm actually glad to see how well (despite all of the b*tching you see around here) the MP community has sustained itself over the 1.5 years - after a short burst it settled in and has stayed fairly consistent. Very respectable actually ... All I'm saying is that the market for Star Wars games is predominantly SP, and that LA/Raven would be loathe to ignore the needs of that market. As for reviews ... always a tough thing. Problem is - the reviewers have favorite games and game types, just like us. Some have to bear the SP part so they can get to MP, others fiddle with MP a bit after enjoying SP. Others would rather be reviewing a RPG or RTS or maybe Britney's Dance Beats ... but whatever, we all have our own bias and perspective - I'm horribly biased towards SP ... I'm sure you've all seen this, and I'm clever enough to have noticed it in myself You wouldn't want me reviewing your new MP game ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amas128 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I'm horribly biased towards SP ... I'm sure you've all seen this, and I'm clever enough to have noticed it in myself You wouldn't want me reviewing your new MP game ... You can say the same about me with MP . I'm just surprised that you can continually play an SP game for more than a year. In no way do I mean that as a bad thing, in fact, the opposite. I can't say I've even played my favorite SP game (probably Link's Awakening for GB, or Ocarina of Time) more than three times. All this talk about SP got me playing it lately. I'm about half way through, on my second time playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by GC256 I'm just surprised that you can continually play an SP game for more than a year. Continually - no. But repeatedly - yes. In that ensuing 1.5 years I've also played Serious Sam SE, SoFII, Deus Ex (for the first time), Unreal II, Elite Force II, NOLF, Red Faction II, and a number of demos. I've also repeated MoHAA, tried to repeat RtCW, repeated JK, MotS, DF, played some DoomLegacy, and who knows what else. I've gotten a few new computers since the one I first played JKII on ... and each one was broken in with JKII I have found that I learn about how much I really like a game through the second play-through (I know they talk about replay value in reviews, I guess this is similar). Like RtCW - I liked it the first time, but after playing MoHAA and other things, I really don't enjoy it all that much - whereas MoHAA feels 'tight', RtCW feels 'loose'. At first I liked them about the same ... a year or so later I definitely prefer MoH - and that's without MP. Of course there are some games I won't bother playing again - like my 5 hours of Red Faction II. Fun enough to be worth my $10, but not to pick up again ... or Postal 2, Unreal II, and so on... There is a unique feeling I get playing JKII. Most FPS I get charged up and am not relaxed - it is great after work to release stress, but not relaxing. JKII, however, I find both releases stress and relaxes me. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thazac Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Hm... I never really felt you were "clumsy" in neither MP or Sp... Maybe because I'm still a little kid and adapts to anything in 5-10 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 single player is more fun and a more star wars environment. But in multiplayer I don't live for fun. I play it to win and only to win. The fun comes from winning. Personally the thing about single player is. It has more cinematic effects and camera angle changing. And the physics are so different because you can't strafe jump and its a bit slower but its not a bad game. Its more fun than multiplayer but you do have to be very pacient. I'm predicting SP jk3 will be more similar in the fact that you get the same force powers. But the physics will still be different. You still wouldn't be able to strafe jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryudom Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 go in sp in third person view, and move around a bit. strafe back and forth and forwards and backwards. stop and notice yourself slide. try jumping and rolling too. now load up multi and do the same. theres is no way you shouldn't be able to tell the differance in control. i don't think i'm really bias sp or mp wise, i ususally love sp, but i'm just saying that i'd like even more with more responsive and no sliding control. even the camera angle goes kinda funny, when you turn it takes a while to catch up or something. so it seems anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thazac Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Hm... I didn't really notice this. After all I ran through the entire game by running up to enemies and bash them with the glowstick, even though this lead to many serious laser poisoning scenarios (except against those snipers on Nar Shaddaa... one of the worst things ever happened to a game IMHO) and after that I never played anything but MP... Still do at the occasional LAN, and get to beat up my friends with earlier named glowstick due to my superior JK2 experience compared to them. "Hr hr............ So 0wned" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 Well although I see a certain relevance in this discussion I also see a growing digression. The fact is not so much that MP will 'feel' like SP. I could care less if it did or did not. I care for it to feel like GHOUL2. The simple fact of the matter is that DIE HARD players simply play the game (they do not question the games feature sets, but just play it). This is fantastic, but at the same time, it is important to understand what hidden features could potentially enhance an experience. I REPEAT never mind the MP vs. SP discussion. The point is ghoul2 brings saber combat a much more 'battle like feel'. Saber combat is drastically affected by the ghoul2collision system (there is an introduction of midswing parries and all sorts of dynamic animation interrupts dependent on actual saber collision). At the same time increasing saber damage becomes more sensible since sabers rarely go through each other (visually) when the ghoul2 collision system is activated. The style of combat introduced by GHOUL2 is unparalleled and unmatched. Feeling more like a true SABER BATTLE, rather then a move and swing (or hack) match. Timing just as the main system is still key to sucess, and reading your opponent's movements to know when to yield, when to attack or when to change tactics. But combat is simply far more involved then the HACK and run style of the base combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Wan X Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I tend to agree with Smood more on this issue. It just doesn't feel like real lightsaber combat when sabers fall through each other. This is why I like SP combat a lot more. I find lightsaber combat to be more realistic do to the "animation breaks" when you actually interrupt an attack with a parry of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defalc Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I just want to be able to kick without taking 5 minutes to lne up a target (what I have to do in singleplayer), miss DFA's because I forget it's done differently in SP, etc. You'll notice that it's harder to control the swing of the sabre in single-player. I don't mind ghoul2 collision, or the cool parries and all, but I just want the fine control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 You're probably confused by the saber auto aim, which variates your moves to more appropriately attack the target based on their position reletive to you. It's a good thing, very good, and I'm sad that MP lacked it, hopefully JA will be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Originally posted by Smood I have heard that this cvar will be removed from Jedi Academy! I hope they do something to make up for this or include it, because it is just a fantastic fighting collision system! You're sources are obviously working from unofficial, uninformed and incorrect resources. Ghoul2 collision is still in SP and MP, why would we remove it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] You're sources are obviously working from unofficial, uninformed and incorrect resources. Ghoul2 collision is still in SP and MP, why would we remove it??? WOW! Thats fantastic news! If I knew I would not have created this thread! Well at least we have some awareness about ghoul2collision. I'm sorry I brought up this falsehood. Maybe you guys could enable it by default and turn off sabertracesaberfirst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 Ghoul2 does not really distort or take away from control at all. In fact I would say it adds to it. It allows you to have more combative moments and actual fighting with similar control to base saber play. As for single player, I would say it is different then ghoul2, not quite the same, but also has similarities. The key is trying it for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defalc Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Originally posted by Emon You're probably confused by the saber auto aim, which variates your moves to more appropriately attack the target based on their position reletive to you. It's a good thing, very good, and I'm sad that MP lacked it, hopefully JA will be different. Ah, I'm a multiplauyer gamer by nature. I dislike auto-aim pretty bad; negates skill. It's a bad thing because you don't need to use skill to aim as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryudom Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 ^yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 auto aim is good in mp games like counter-str... nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 Auto aim isn't really the issue here. It is the enhanced collision detection and animation breaking offered by Ghoul2 collision. Please check out my previous posts in regards to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryudom Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 yes no one is bashing goul2 now shhh heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Well since the combat system is only marginally based around skill in the first place (targeted towards the casual gamer, the largest market), I see no harm in it, but that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defalc Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Actually a skilled saberist can cut down an attack spammer or new player quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Of course, but it's not entirely skill based like some want it to be, which I think's a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted August 10, 2003 Author Share Posted August 10, 2003 Originally posted by Emon Well since the combat system is only marginally based around skill in the first place (targeted towards the casual gamer, the largest market), I see no harm in it, but that's me. There is truth to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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