Gun Fire Rates - Are they improved ?

[Tesla]

Are Raven improving the Firing Rates of the Blaster Weapons like the Wookiee Bowcaster, and the Stormtroopers Gun (Can't remember the exact name ) because in JO they seemed to be way to slow, well for my liking and if they is way to change them in JO don't tell me because i prefer non-modded games, anyway the left-click of the mouse for the Stormie Gun was way to slow because you want to be able shoot as soon as you pull the weapon out, but you had to wait at least 2 secs, and the NPC you were against could have badly injured you by then and it's to late.

 

Your views on this ?

[Emon]

I didn't have any problem with it...

[Belgirion]

One thing I didn't like in JO was how slow the blaster bolts travelled through the air, in the movies they travelled alot faster

[Emon]

That's been a problem in all the DF and JK games. I don't know why it's there...

[Crow_Nest]

Once jk3 comes out you can wait for people to make mods that have high rate of fire for weapons.

[SettingShadow]

Originally posted by crow_nest

Once jk3 comes out you can wait for people to make mods that have high rate of fire for weapons.

 

I thought he said he prefered un-modded games...

[Rockstar]

oh personally there was one thing i hated and im sure many others like me here probably agree on. in jk the storm trooper rifle was awesome and perfect. in JO it was so pathetic past 3m away! it had like anti-stormtrooper sensing technology lol. it was so bad i used the bryer over it in the beginning! lol

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Belgirion

One thing I didn't like in JO was how slow the blaster bolts travelled through the air, in the movies they travelled alot faster

 

I totally agree with you. The rate of fire has never been a problem for me...but the speed of the shots seemed even slower in JO than in the previous games. I know they have to try and find a balance that caters for you being able to block shots - and you can't do that effectively unless you see them coming. But seriously, when a Stormtrooper can dodge a shot from 10 feet away, it's ridiculous. Battling with the 'dynamic crosshair' to keep it on your target was also a pain and I wasted more ammunition with it enabled. Thinking about it...because the crosshair tries to snap onto your target - you can't 'lead' an enemy to shoot them, which is essential because of the slow speed of the blaster bolts. Needless to say, I disabled it at the earliest opportunity. If they would only increase the speed of the bolts through the air, I think it would be a great improvement.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Rockstar

oh personally there was one thing i hated and im sure many others like me here probably agree on. in jk the storm trooper rifle was awesome and perfect. in JO it was so pathetic past 3m away! it had like anti-stormtrooper sensing technology lol. it was so bad i used the bryer over it in the beginning! lol

The combination of slight lower accuracy, better stormtrooper AI, and more demanding hit detection made it much harder for those first few levels ... but I have put in the time, and do like the E11. I also used the Bryar as a non-scoped sniper gun ...

 

Mike

[Kurgan]

Yes txa1265, I think you and I are on the same wavelength with this. I couldn't quite put my finger on it at first, but after I turned off the DynamicCrosshair I realized that the guns in SP with AI just "suck" in general.

 

My opinion has then been that:

 

1) Weapons in JK2 SP: bad. They were really fairly useless once you aquired the saber and some decent force.

 

2) Weapons in JK2 MP (any version): Good. If SP weapons had been like this, I probably would have used them even after I was a Jedi Master.

 

 

So, if JA improves the weapons (I have a bad feeling about this...) in SP, I'll be happy.

 

I figured all along their intention was to really make you "want" to use the saber in SP, so by nerfing the guns, they made it more of a "progress spectrum" like so many other SP FPS games (go from stronger weapon to stronger weapon), whereas in MP they strove for "situational balance" weapons (ie: all weapons are balanced... some are better in certain situations than others).

 

In SP for example, I'd groan when all I had left was the ST Rifle against a group of enemies. In MP, I was like "YES! A decent gun! I have a chance...!"

 

Similarly when approaching a saber wielding enemy here is how I would react:

 

1) (SP) Quickly put away guns and switch to saber.

 

2) (MP) Go in guns blazing (after turning on Absorb of course).

[txa1265]

My impression for Jedi Academy is that the guns will remain virtually unchanged - add the Concussion gun and change the Bryar to the BlasTech, and that's about it.

 

The focus is elsewhere. If you are coming to SP looking for 'advanced Dark Forces' save your $$. If you are looking for 'mega-saber deluxe' .... bing bing bing!

 

I just hope that for Siege, in particular, the mix of guns actually works well.

 

Mike

[Kurgan]

The question then remains... why bother using the non-saber weapons in JA SP at all?

 

In JK2 SP you had an excuse to use the crappy guns, because for the first few levels you were without any sort of Force (and you don't even get the saber until what... level 5?).

 

And since they haven't revealed there being any levels where you "lose your saber" and have to fight with only guns or lose the force or something (no Ysalamari confirmed), the it seems you'll either have the choice of:

 

1) Awesome saber.

 

or

 

2) Crappy inferior guns.

 

So why bother with them at all? I mean its nice that you can use them if you want to, but really, why would you, other than to just screw around? The whole "weapon progression" thing from JK2 would not work at all here.... unless the Conc rifle is better than the Saber...

 

Granted, there were one or two times in JK2 where a big gun was nice even after you had the sabers+force (I'm thinking against Galak Mech for example), but for the most part, Saberthrow and Lightning did everything you could possibly want. Why bother shooting a group of Troopers when you can just pull the weapons from the entire squad or speed through them with Fast Stance and kill them all without taking any damage?

 

PS: I think txa1265 is right, it's not so much the rate of fire (since the rate of fire is higher for many of the guns in SP than MP, like the Heavy Repeater), it's the damage and the overall accuracy/hit detection with the AI. If a mod could be made that made the weapons have the same "fee" as MP, it would greatly enhance the SP experience for me. In JK2 I actually felt shooting bots was more fun than shooting AI with many of the guns.

[HaruGlory89]

They do need to be improved. It's so darn slow in the first few levels. And how annoying is it that it takes around 5-8 shots to kill a stormie with your Bryar?

[txa1265]

Originally posted by HaruGlory89

They do need to be improved. It's so darn slow in the first few levels. And how annoying is it that it takes around 5-8 shots to kill a stormie with your Bryar?

I never took more than 1-2. They call it a head shot, son.

 

 

And if you really spend a fair amount of time with DF or JK you'll realize that the guns there were really no better, you just had more stupid enemies with the common courtesy to stand still while you blasted them - or at least walk in a straight line towards you.

 

Mike

[Kurgan]

Actually, in JK it only took 3 shots to kill a Stormtrooper with a bryar pistol.

 

I think the difference here is that in JK2 at least, the hit points for regular enemies actually increases with difficulty levels. In JK1 only a few enemies did that, like the Gammoreans or Dark Jedi bosses.

 

So on "Jedi Master" they can take as many as 6 (!) shots!

 

Now that's what I call improved armor....

 

 

And yes, the enemies were stupider in JK1, but they were also thinner skinned.

[StormHammer]

I think the 'crappy inferior guns' will probably be more useful in the earlier missions again. If you only have the lowest Force pull when you start...you won't be able to pull the weapons from everyone's hands. You'll probably just pull over one or two enemies. Also, if there is a larger group of enemies attacking you with blasters from all directions, it would make sense to 'even the odds' by taking out pockets of resistance with a heavier ranged weapon before going in to clean up with the lightsaber.

 

As for later levels, I expect the guns will become more and more useless in SP...unless you are facing off against heavily armoured droids (like the Ed-209 look-alikes or AT-STs in JO), or large 'beasties' where it would be suicidal to get in close.

 

But the bottom line is...would we complain more if they had simply taken most of the guns out of SP, and only included them in MP?

[txa1265]

Originally posted by StormHammer

As for later levels, I expect the guns will become more and more useless in SP...unless you are facing off against heavily armoured droids (like the Ed-209 look-alikes or AT-STs in JO), or large 'beasties' where it would be suicidal to get in close.

 

You used weapons against the AT-ST and the mechs? And you call yourself a Jedi?!?!?

 

Wimp.

 

 

But the bottom line is...would we complain more if they had simply taken most of the guns out of SP, and only included them in MP?

 

Personally, I wouldn't. I'd be happy - very happy, indeed - if I had a saber and a blaster with some scope capability, and a TD or two.

 

But that is not what Jedi Knight games are about.

 

Mike

[txa1265]

I have to say I'm glad they haven't put in a generic flamethrower. I liked them in RtCW and Unreal II ... and MoHAA, for that matter. It is just REALLY non-Star Wars, IMO.

 

I still wish there was a gun with that SoFII shotgun feel ... maybe the concussion, but I bet we don't see that until it's too late to care ...

 

That's part of the problem - imagine having the repeater or flechette on Kejim or Artus?

 

Or, imagine that the bowcaster was actually weakened for human use, but when a force used operated one, it took a small bit of mana but greatly enhanced the power.

 

Mike

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by txa1265

You used weapons against the AT-ST and the mechs? And you call yourself a Jedi?!?!?

 

Wimp.

 

 

 

I used the DEMP2 mostly - after all, that's what it was designed for.

 

Personally, I wouldn't. I'd be happy - very happy, indeed - if I had a saber and a blaster with some scope capability, and a TD or two.

 

But that is not what Jedi Knight games are about.

 

Mike

 

I was just generalising. Personally, I agree with you. For Jedi Academy I would have absolutely no problem with just having access to the lightsaber, a hand blaster and a longer range weapon in SP. In fact, now that I think about it, I'm going to restrict myself to exactly that for most of the SP game.

 

As for the flamethrower...I agree. But GL did set the precedent in AOTC with using it on Mace Windu, and I wouldn't have so much of a problem if that kind of weapon was restricted to a 'bounty hunter' class.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by StormHammer

I used the DEMP2 mostly - after all, that's what it was designed for.

 

cough ... cough ... so did I ... cough ... cough ...

 

I was just generalising. Personally, I agree with you. For Jedi Academy I would have absolutely no problem with just having access to the lightsaber, a hand blaster and a longer range weapon in SP. In fact, now that I think about it, I'm going to restrict myself to exactly that for most of the SP game.

That has been my plan since learning we play as a padawan.

 

As for the flamethrower...I agree. But GL did set the precedent in AOTC with using it on Mace Windu, and I wouldn't have so much of a problem if that kind of weapon was restricted to a 'bounty hunter' class.

Very true - and a good point.

 

Personally I'm tired of the old device - you are limited to the weapons your enemy has, and they are limited to what you have. Let them have things we can't get (I can hear the whining now ) and give us a weapon with some advantage.

 

Mike

[Emon]

Originally posted by Rockstar oh personally there was one thing i hated and im sure many others like me here probably agree on. in jk the storm trooper rifle was awesome and perfect. in JO it was so pathetic past 3m away! it had like anti-stormtrooper sensing technology lol. it was so bad i used the bryer over it in the beginning! lol

 

...you're crazy! JO's E-11 was the best out of any game. The E-11 is supposed to be an accurate carbine kind of weapon. The only thing you can't do is use the scope.

[Kurgan]

I agree the JK2 SP ST Rifle sucked. The MP version was wonderful.

 

The multiple firing modes of the ST Rifle in JK2 pretty closely aproximate what we saw in the films (accurate shots sometimes that were slow, fast inaccurate shots other times).

 

Other than the scope (which we only see used maybe once in any of the films) it would be cool to see the stun setting (for single player of course, or maybe in a Siege mod where you had to capture somebody). Also, how about that scope on the BlasTech pistol? ; )

 

As to removing the guns, no, I'd rather have crappy guns than no guns at all, but still.

 

Now that the "gun progression single player convention" is essentially moot, it wouldn't hurt to put in the MP guns to make it more fun to use them.

 

Of course that might hurt the popularity of the saber, and it seems they want players to use the saber and force almost exclusively.

 

Good point about the player starting out really weak in the force and needing the guns slightly then though.

 

About flamethrowers: In addition to Jango's, there are also two flame thrower weapons listed in the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology already (from the EU).

[Tesla]

I agree the JK2 SP ST Rifle sucked. The MP version was wonderful.

 

Amen to that.

[toms]

i haven't directly compared them to work out what the difference is, but i loved the Stormie rifle in JK... inacurate at range, but acurate enough at closer ranges to be useful.

 

the SP stormie rifle in JO was just aweful though. I can't put my finger on it. I liked the 2 rates of fire. But even with the more "acurate mode" you could be stationary, firing at a stationary enemy about 6 feet away and it would still take literally 30 seconds to hit them.

 

However the thing that really bugged me was thet when you were strafing it seemed to fire from an invisible point about 1/2 way between the gun barrel and the edge of the screen. It was as if the bolts didn't leave the gun until after you had moved. This made it possible to circle strafe around a stormie at about 3 feet about 5 times and never actually hit them.

 

or maybe im just crap.

 

i'd like to have seen the firing point problem fixed, and then have 2 modes. 1 firing from the hip, another slower, more acurate one where you raise it to look along the barrel (but can't run)

[Rockstar]

Originally posted by Kurgan

I agree the JK2 SP ST Rifle sucked. The MP version was wonderful.

 

The multiple firing modes of the ST Rifle in JK2 pretty closely aproximate what we saw in the films (accurate shots sometimes that were slow, fast inaccurate shots other times).

 

Other than the scope (which we only see used maybe once in any of the films) it would be cool to see the stun setting (for single player of course, or maybe in a Siege mod where you had to capture somebody). Also, how about that scope on the BlasTech pistol? ; )

 

As to removing the guns, no, I'd rather have crappy guns than no guns at all, but still.

 

Now that the "gun progression single player convention" is essentially moot, it wouldn't hurt to put in the MP guns to make it more fun to use them.

 

Of course that might hurt the popularity of the saber, and it seems they want players to use the saber and force almost exclusively.

 

Good point about the player starting out really weak in the force and needing the guns slightly then though.

 

About flamethrowers: In addition to Jango's, there are also two flame thrower weapons listed in the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology already (from the EU).

 

i agree with your post 100% mate

 

the storm trooper rifle was pretty awesome in the first game, but in the second game the combination of: slow fire rates and slow projectile speed, made a cool gun absolutely dodgy. i mean the shots were so slow if you were half a room away, you could drop your pants, wave your arse at em, and then get out of the way without even concieving that you might get hit.

 

i know this was to make the shots deflectable, but even on JM, the game was still very easy in terms of enemies once you got your trusty lightsaber and force powers. if the game gets harder at the expense of making the guns better, i say bring it on