BaronGrackle

Earlier this year, I thought I was done as a Star Wars fan. Funny how things work.

Ohh, you're adding Hangman too?! 😃 (a-yuck, a-yuck)

Okay, I'll ask. Is there a page that talks about the rules? Or objectives? I just typed in some random LucasArts proper nouns, it said I failed miserably, and that's fine. But what should I be trying to do?

To be fair, the Ship Combat section of CMI is the most arcade-leaning sequence in the entire franchise. I'm pretty sure they were trying to fulfill the plans for ship combat in Mutiny on Monkey Island, but the result is a sequence that leans closer to the Indy 3 sections of fistfighting or flying the biplane. I'm sure they asked themselves if such sections had a place in adventure games by 1997.

So there's no way to have LeChuck's pamphlet completely unchecked, right? It stays blank through Part 3, but starting with Part 4 a lot of them are mandatory? I think filling out the application at the 49th Parallel is always "bear false witness", getting Locke Smith's key is always "commit fraud" (maybe not on casual mode), Herman's key is always "betray trust", Bella Fisher's key is always "destroy the beautiful", the Brrr Muda key is always "destroy the beloved", and then for Part 5 stabbing the statues is always "inflict bodily harm". I thought every Elaine conversation at the start of Part 5 triggered "throw tantrums", but someone on reddit said you can avoid that with the right answers. (I'm not sure what counts as a tantrum; I had previously thought it was triggered when Guybrush yelled at the locked chest in that montage at the end of Part 4.) Does anyone have other insights? Or are we pretty sure these checks are mandatory?

The best Monkey Island tabletop game is The Princess Bride Adventure Book Game, where you play different characters in key scenes of the film, but you're basically playing as the grandfather trying to keep his grandson's interest. If anyone is aware of a more Monkey Island tabletop game, please let me know.

So hey... are there very many of these in RMI? Apart from the Prelude and the endgame's emerging from the alleyway... - Literal playground equipment at the museum, where Carla's house was. - The Mêlée cook's reaction when you get funding for an amusement park. - The Chums seems like those interactive park games, where you find marked areas and/or interact with cast members for clues. - Could the Queen of Brrr Muda be the same sort of game that we equate with "beat the swordmaster" in MI1? Have a lot of people worn that crown? - Could the Terror Island key be a maze event? - The Part 5 sequence beneath the Monkey Head could be a maze or escape room thing. It feels like there's less of the subliminal "neighborhood or amusement park seeping in" than there was in the original games. But maybe that's because the main story is sandwiched between that Prelude and the Ending, so extra references would be too on the nose.

I haven't played the games, but I've watched most of the King's Quest ones... and I'd argue that they're "sending up fairy tale tropes" a lot of the time. Defeat a dragon with a bucket of water (twist on ordinary dragon slaying). Get by a troll by bringing a goat (because Three Billy Goats Gruff is a story). Follow the witch to her cottage and push her in the pot (because Hansel and Gretel is a story). Guess the little man's name, and it's NOT Rumplestiltskin but a word puzzle based on Rumplestiltskin (that we probably can't pronounce). I'm not as well versed on the sequels, but I know KQ3 lets you steal porridge from the Three Bears' house again and again, as they take walks again and again, because Goldilocks is a story. These stories are dark fantasy comedies (apparent from the funny death scenes, even) that strongly reference fairy tales. So when you play/watch a King's Quest game, you often find yourself thinking, "Oh, this is the thing from that other famous story, but they changed it in a funny way!"

I actually just post here, the Thimbleweed Park forums, the Monkey Island subreddit, and a few comments on youtube and twitter. But I do READ the adventuregamers and steam forum threads for Monkey Island, so I probably am referencing something you also read (or wrote).

Well, I have heard MI1 compared to the parody film Airplane! before. I do kind of see your point, but... Out of all the pirate and adventure stories that Secret pulls from ... What do The Three Trials of piracy parody? What does the circus and cannon-firing sequence parody? What do the references to past tourism parody (Meathook, Swordmaster, the Monkey Head)? Buying a ship from Stan comes from an actual used car salesman... is this an adventure/pirate trope that gets parodied? What about using a voodoo spell to reach a mystery island instead of conventionally sailing there? What about the hell caverns of faces, hands, and mushrooms, and the bad guy's ghost ship anchored in lava? And using this criteria, can we call King's Quest a parody game? Defeating a dragon with a bucket of water, and all that?

It was gradual and kind of beautiful, as an English-speaker playing it blind. 1. First you encounter the Grog Machine. Root beer is kind of memorable (funny?) because it's the only thing that isn't a type of grog, but the grog is clearly Coca-Cola. You are still early in the game and have a lot more time left. It is very unlikely to be your last sitting. 2. You eventually hear about a very, very rare root (or antiroot, sometimes) that can be weaponized to kill ghosts. It's the last one in existence. You are far into the game but still have more puzzles to solve, which might take time. It is probably not your last sitting. 3. The cannibals weaponize your root as a carbonated liquid in a seltzer bottle, and they mention it goes good with ice cream. You are near the end of the game and don't really have puzzles anymore. You are probably going to finish the game in this sitting. 4. Guybrush and Elaine openly call the potion "root beer" when threatening ghosts. Your game is almost over. 5. Guybrush gets his new root beer from that same Grog Machine you looked at probably on the first or second day you played the game. For me? I didn't even start to realize my magic root was going to be ordinary root beer until #3 on that list, and even then my brain was thinking in terms of "this is very rare and magical" and also "this is ordinary soda" simultaneously, somehow. And my brain didn't even remember the Grog Machine version until the very end, when Guybrush landed in it, and my brain completely made the switch to "this is ordinary soda". I think it helps that I hadn't looked at the Grog Machine in literally months, since I was playing straight. And by the time the cannibals made their "root beer" references clear, I was basically at the end.

You know, a little while ago I went on Reddit and said Part 5 of this game was the endgame battle between Guybrush and LeChuck. As soon as Guybrush screams that he's coming, and LeChuck hears the echoes and responds by pulling levers, the two of them are in DIRECT COMMUNICATION and having a mental battle (or, puzzle battle) against each other. I said this was the climactic battle, and Guybrush won when he solved the pirate wheel and cornered LeChuck. . . . But then Ron Gilbert did the Cressup interview. No, there was no final battle between Guybrush and LeChuck. And apparently it was very important that there was no final battle. So reddit and the steam forums can keep talking about the game ending before the climax, and I can't answer them because Ron said they were right. EDIT: I guess it's just more "I don't want to believe"! 🤪

"So I notice you dunked the man in the dunking booth, you won this prize at the Guess Your Weight game, and you rode three different rollercoasters." "Well, you know what they say about omelettes and eggs." "I haven't seen the omelette yet. Just the eggs."

Oh yeah. I'm already reminiscing about shooting the skeleton's truck while "Flagpole Sitta" plays. EDIT: No wait, that was his MI2 game...

Eh, I'm just saying... Ron and Dave gave us a very definitive plaque describing Ron's original vision of the game in 1989, and they marked this as the original Secret. Other than that? They gave 10 different endings and aren't telling us which one they like best, specifically so canon won't form around it.

That kid, what's his name? Did Guybrush and Elaine name their son "Boybrush"? If you want him, you've got to turn out the lights and return to reality (also known as: live forever Beneath the Monkey Head).

Nice! I'd recommend trying the ending where you go straight back the alleyway without even getting the key, and get the post-credit with Guybrush and Elaine sailing together. You can treat it as a Monkey Island 3a that starts immediately after MI2 and before MI3. MI6 references to later MI games would be voodoo fortunetelling timey wimey. Guybrush and Elaine sailing together would be the only part that technically happens after MI5.

The Lost Shovel of Monkey Island! 🤯

I kind of wonder if the trap on Monkey Island with the "convenient" shovel was a purposed reference.

Random thoughts about swords and shovels. Guybrush wields a sword in every game except MI2. * MI1 has an insult swordfighting section. * MI3 has a sea insult swordfighting section. * MI4 has an unwinnable optional insult swordfighting sequence. * MI5 Ch2 has a swordfighting sequence unrelated to insults and then Ch5 has a brief insult/uplift sequence. * MI6 Prelude has a scurvydogfight game with Boybrush and Chucky, then Parts 1 and 4 have you swordfight Carla during friendly conversation, and Part 2 has the first on-screen swordfight between Guybrush and LeChuck (in which LeChuck "cheats"). Guybrush wields a shovel in every game except MI4 and MI6. * MI1 has him dig for the Lost Treasure of Mêlée Island. * MI2 Part 1 has him graverob, then Part 4 has him dig for Big Whoop. * MI3 has him dig for Gold-Elaine on a theater stage. (You can think about that one for a while.) * MI5 Part 1 has him plant a false treasure, Part 2 has him dig up an artifact, and Part 5 has him dig in the afterlife. * MI6 has him ALMOST set hands on that shovel, but it was a trap. In terms of inventory: * MI1 is the only game where Guybrush has to acquire his sword, and the only where it shows as an inventory item. (MI3, MI4, and MI5 do have sword inventory items, but these are unrelated to any swordfighting Guybrush does.) * MI1 and MI2 are the only games where Guybrush has to acquire a shovel, and the only where it shows as an inventory item.

It's easier to see Mêlée Island as a town, possibly one with some old tourist traps. A Chamber of Commerce, a PTA (Parent Teacher Association), stores, a jail, a church, a nearby forest kids can get lost in. Even MI6 adds some playground equipment by Carla's house.

I like being able to sense an enormous world outside of the protagonist. I like excitement, anxiety, discovery, mystery. Even though I didn’t fully realize it until this year: I crave drama (tragedy) blended with comedy, and realism blended with fantasy (cartoon). Secret Secret has risen to be my favorite. My brain has cemented it as the great blend, the proto story, the embryonic beginning that could have gone in any direction. In Secret you can spot references to the world being an amusement park… or a small community… or a novel… or a video game… or a straight, non-comedic adventure. It has money in numbered amounts like Zak McKraken or Indy 3, even though it doesn’t really matter if you have 478 or 480 or 482 pieces. And it doesn’t matter if you buy Stan’s ship for 2000 or 5000, or how many extras you get. And it doesn’t matter whether you have the romantic scene between Guybrush and Elaine at the docks, or whether you kill Bob or not, or whether you leave Herman or your crew behind, but the fact that you can do it is embedded in the game. I authentically felt the twist when swordfighting was revealed as a dialogue series instead of an arcade sequence, because I had come from Indy 3 and Sierra’s Conquests of Camelot (and I think part of the reason that twist hit me was because swordfighting was originally going to be an arcade sequence like Indy 3). You can feel the fingerprints from Disneyland’s Pirates of the Caribbean, from Treasure Island, from Sid Meier’s Pirates!, from On Stranger Tides, from The Princess Bride. Drama blended with comedy is listening to Estevan talk about LeChuck in fear, or pondering the story of Herman and his Captain. Realism blended with fantasy is seeing the closeups of Guybrush and Elaine juxtaposed against bouncing from a rubber tree, or gradually realizing that the incredibly rare voodoo antiroot potion is somehow ordinary root beer. There is an unreal quality to knowing for 30 years that it’s always night on Mêlée Island, and then learning that no, sometimes there’s a sunset. You just never saw it. (The fansites in the early '00s didn’t seem to mention it as much as the stump joke, I guess.) And all of you know that for me, I didn’t learn Ron Gilbert’s original Secret from the plaque in MI6; I learned it from Mutiny on Monkey Island. And so, for me, that’s also in the bones of MI1. Revenge Monkey Island 2 was my favorite game for many years. Part of that is because I first played it in high school, and the melancholy hit nicely. Part of it was the soundtrack, which I still think is the strongest. Part of it was the bits of realistic art… a combination of the intro sequence (I want to visit with that group of playtesters having a picnic with mugs of drink) and the character sprites for our main cast which resembled those of MI1 (which I forever associate with realistic art akin to Indy 3 and Loom) to the extent that it took years before I realized how much of MI2’s other characters were cartoonishly drawn. I love that this is a heroic tragedy for Guybrush – I find similarities in other modern stories I enjoy like The Cave and Shovel Knight: King of Cards. And it still has a few unformed holdovers similar to MI1, such as the numbered money system (still irrelevant) and the fingerprints of things like Sid Meier’s Pirates! (e.g. expecting every pirate community to have a governor’s mansion – an expectation that disappears from new islands in MI sequels). Tales Tales has risen to third on my list because, even though it’s firmly on the cartoonish side of the MI spectrum, it tries to evoke those feelings of drama, tragedy, and fear that I had in the original games. When Chapters 3 and 4 started casually referencing the deaths of characters, I had an anxious sense of “something is wrong”. And I love that sense because it made me remember the hanged Captain from MI1. Learning that I killed Captain McGillicutty in Chapter 2, that his humorous sinking scene with the pyrite parrot had led to actual drowning? It made me reflect on whether I had killed Rum Rogers Jr. in MI2, or Efitte Lafoot in MI3. As I type this out, I'm realizing it made me reflect on Guybrush's path of destruction in the same way that MI6's mop tree and Elaine investigations was aiming for. Tales didn’t have the blend of realism and fantasy (likely no MI game will again), but it did have a blend of tragedy and comedy. Curse > Return > Escape After that, I consider the other three games to be fun Monkey Island titles. They’re enjoyable adventures, but I don’t feel the blending as strongly. The blend of realism with cartoon remains off the radar. And the blend of drama/tragedy with comedy is mixed. Yes, MI3 gives LeChuck a high body count and depicts one of his most frightening moments when he’s reborn as a demon to slaughter a crew… but I didn’t felt the threat carried toward Guybrush. Yes, MI4 explores supernatural feels in its deconstruction of insult fighting, its power and primal connection… but you have to stretch a lot to escape the realm of comedy. (WE’RE IN THE NONSPOILER FORUMS) Yes, Return to Monkey Island

Please tell me more about the "Elaine! Thank god you are here!" line. Are you saying it only appears sometimes? I wasn't understanding you.

Something something Part 5 is called Beneath the Monkey Head. Something something Guybrush kept going down and down and down and down but never turned to go back up, is still deep beneath the monkey head unless he chose to deny what he THOUGHT he saw. (Something something Guybrush didn't climb the ladder up and is still trapped in The Cave.) Something something in the Prelude, that door you came out of remains the "scary door". It doesn't even need to be seen as disrespectful of Return. Ron told us in that Cressup interview that it's likely he and Dave Grossman have different opinions on which ending is most accurate, and Ron doesn't want to say which one he prefers because he doesn't want it to "become canon". If that's true, then I'm pretty comfortable in my belief that Return kept things vague and mystery-boxy on purpose, that every interpretation is plausible because all of them have evidence of being the one(s). When you're replaying the end of MI2 and coming to the amusement park and LeChuck's glowing eyes and see the toy giraffe, it's equally plausible that the thing is a toy giraffe or a sleeping pirate.

SMI: Governor Marley, unelected despot of Mêlée Island, uses voodoo magic and socio-political acumen to stage her own kidnapping. She set the pieces in place for her citizens to witness the destruction of the Ghost Pirate LeChuck at her hands, in a massive PR gambit! Foiled by Guybrush. MI2LR: Rising unpopularity forces Marley to flee Mêlée Island with a band of loyalists. Landing on Booty Island, they bribe and strongarm Governor DeWaat out of power and secure the governorship. Marley is shocked to learn that both Guybrush and LeChuck are still active. She hunts down Guybrush and, after gathering what information she can about why he and LeChuck seem to be prominent forces still, she casts him into the pit of her latest invention - a voodoo mindscape. Guybrush and LeChuck shall be trapped here forever, out of her way. CMI Marley rallies her forces, sailing on Plunder and Mêlée Islands and proclaiming the Tri-Island Area. The Caribbean is starting to buckle under her influence. But then LeChuck escapes his mindscape and corners Marley on Plunder Island. Guybrush escapes and curses her into a gold statue. Marley's empire crumbles. And as the curse is eventually broken, Marley is still trying to understand how Guybrush and LeChuck can be stupid enough to not see what's going on, while still foiling her with marriage attempts. EMI Desperate, Marley brings naive Guybrush and a crew of mercenaries to reassert power on Mêlée Island. They get attacked off the coast, and land with too few numbers to force authority. She sends Guybrush away while trying to win her election by any means necessary. A lot of insanity happens. When it's all over, she finally gives up on Mêlée Island. She gives up on governorship. She gives up on conventional strength and earthly powers. TMI Marley takes on a demon form and maintains its powers indefinitely. The Voodoo Lady Corina engineers Guybrush and LeChuck to clumsily block her path, but Marley's demonic form cannot be denied her. RMI At last! The Demon Pirate Marley successfully imbues the energies of a Hades Pomegranate into a lime tree. Anyone who partakes of these Limes will be pulled into sync with the underworld, from which Marley can trap them in her new and improved voodoo mindscape! There will be no escape this time, not for anyone. LeChuck is already permanently trapped. Then, so is Guybrush. Soon everyone will join them. Everyone. . . . There's only one choice.