BaronGrackle

Agent Reyes has it. Thimbleweed Park spoilers??

You probably already read Ron's post about On Stranger Tides, but it's still a good read. https://grumpygamer.com/on_stranger_tides Maybe it's naive of me. But between this and the Mutiny document, I like to think that there's a tiny fragment... a tiny spark... a tiniest little piece of The Secret of Monkey Island's pirate world that was conceived as being just as real as Maniac Mansion, just as real as Indy 3, just as real as On Stranger Tides. Not that Ron is lying or misremembering the original Secret, but that there were proto-ideas in play that weren't related to children in amusement parks, ideas that were authentically related to a straight-up pirate adventure comedy... both from Ron and also from Dave and Tim. And that speck of reality is in the DNA of the Monkey Island story, whether consciously or subconsciously from the designers. Then I get to tilt my head back and laugh at the power I've given to the "real" worlds of Maniac Mansion, Indiana Jones, and On Stranger Tides.

So this is pretty interesting, because your experience with the game's difficulty registers as a positive with my brain. A lot of feedback has been that Return's puzzles were too easy, but some of that criticism is tempered withcthe knowledge that most of us might just be too used to adventure game puzzles. Your story indicates that might be the case. Puzzles that make you stop and think, combined with that Hint Book you used so often because you "just want to get on with the game", seem like they were working effectively!

I've loudly said negative things about this game, but when I consider everything I like about Return? When I think about what Return seems to be saying... how in that Cressup interview, Ron Gilbert says that Guybrush had to WALK AWAY from a final climax against LeChuck (a climax all the other games had), because if he fought LeChuck again it would just be Guybrush stuck in the same pattern, again and again, trapped for eternity? (I'm paraphrasing here, but I think the actual quote is along these lines. The theme in The Cave is very similar.) When I think about the ending moments of Guybrush turning out the lights - with Ron saying in that interview that they deliberately went with Guybrush turning out the lights instead of Stan - and then sitting on the bench quietly? It's kind of beautiful as an ending. EDIT: But yes, Ron himself has said repeatedly that there is definitely room for sequels, and he'd be surprised if there aren't any. That is part of the full picture.

Asking not sarcastically: for those of you who feel eager for a sequel, would you envision a similar structure with Guybrush and Boybrush storytelling? Would you stay in a pirate world, but with indications that LeChuck doesn't really exist and Stan set it all up again? Or is it best to just stick to the top layer of a new story, and allow players to understand the rest without addressing it again..? EDIT: For years, I never felt like "the Secret" was a real thing. So it's weird to read about the Secret being stronger before we knew what it was, and being less of a thing now that we know what it is (something Return itself carries as a theme). I feel like it's the opposite: now that we know the Secret has a "definitive" answer (which I don't necessarily agree is true, because Mutiny on Monkey Island, etc. etc.), it feels like The Secret has more power/importance over the Monkey Island universe than it ever had before.

We're all individuals with our own opinions. For myself, I do think the Curse designers produced the best thing they could have done, which left echoes in the fandom of the early '00s (how many of us remember Paco Vink's art?) and still holds with us today, in noticeable aspects such as Murray's character and the voice casting of Dominic and many others. Let me consciously make a point of not detracting from the other MI games, with this statement. (Plus the addendum that we as fans were far harder on MI4's twist that Herman was Grandpa Marley, than we were on MI3's twist that LeChuck was responsible for the deaths of Marley's crew, and that apparently he sailed to impress Elaine with the secret of Monkey Island at about the same time Captain Marley sailed for Big Whoop.)

Nah, I've seen enough of j2ake's style to know he doesn't do that. But right now on Twitter, some have been throwing shade on MI6 in the way they compliment MI3 and even MI4. I... I've kind of done that myself, even here. So. Sorry about that. My acceptance of MI6 and its role in my MI fan appreciation is still coalescing.

So... I need you to imagine a fully decked out Sea Monkey II, with all the skulls. Imagine it crewed by swans. The swams are the guild of weavers. Bobbin, Cygna, Atropos, Lachesis, and Clothos. They sail the ship and shape the world around them by conking the skulls for music notes. These swans on their tiny skull-music boat can do whatever they want. Untwist hurricanes, rend enemy warships, open chests to Secrets... anything. Swan weavers on the Sea Monkey II.

Nope! . . . (I had a lot of fun typing that; thank you. Feel free to make it!)

He does use the "I" pronoun five times overall and the "we" pronoun once when referring to the elements one loves about Monkey Island. I suppose it's imprecise because not everyone loves the same things. But the things we do love probably have a lot of overlap... and in that sentence, the main point of contention would probably center on "made the best thing you could with them". Good idea for a topic: What are all the elements you love about Monkey Island?

Is it a toy giraffe, or is it a sleeping pirate? Or both? Or neither?

To be fair, we've seen evidence in comments/interviews from designers that they were trying to keep this intact, even if they didn't fully understand what "this" was. We have j2ake here who's described that Tales Ch.5 purposely had amusement park elements and tried to convey that the MI universe was frayed at the edges and might come apart if explored too deeply. And as for Curse, Bill Tiller was one of the earliest voices telling us Ron's secret, so they kind of knew. It can't be an accident that Curse's first menu is a lazy banjo playing in a swamp. https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2013/04/the-magic-of-disney-parks-storytelling-pirates-of-the-caribbean/ Nor that the opening scene is a battle between a pirate ship and a fort, with our protagonist sailing to it in a literal ride cart.

For me, it helps to think of the Plaque as "this was my original idea" (or, if you're a Mutiny Conspiracist like me, "this was one of my original ideas"). But Ron has said repeatedly that this franchise has shifted over time. I think it's easiest to imagine that all Monkey Island continuities are equally valid, and that's probably what the initial setup in the Prelude (the "is that real" parrot, and the introduction of multiple unreliable narrators for every story we've known) and the existence of multiple endings is veering us toward.

Do we know if it was datamined or an original discovery? I imagine you do your first playthrough and reach Wally at the end, try your monocles and hear Guybrush say "It's way too late in the game for that", then see what you can discover on a replay? Maybe they noticed that piece of art existed in the left corner of LeShip in Part 2 but not in Part 4? Who discovered this?

When replaying for the speed run achievement (which you CAN do on the Switch, despite being unable to skip opening credits or any cutscenes, at least on Casual Mode), I noticed there was no cutscene of Elaine saving Herman, and I THINK she didn't scold me about the Mop Tree. Do we know if the Elaine cutscenes and if her Part 5 dialogue are randomized, or do they depend on the order you did objectives, or...? Did anyone make a total list? I'm wondering if I missed any.

Those cheating shackles... yes, having an item uninteractable until you have the correct item hovered over it is cheating, in this series of games! When I heard this was a thing, I spent time in the hold swinging my monocles over the chains hanging there, to no avail. 😛 I do wonder if there are other hidden interactables like this, and if dataminers will find them.

At least the rabblerousers are talking about the ending nowadays. I'm fine with the ending.

I don't blame anybody for hating the art-haters like myself. But for my ilk, the nightmare scenario was always that this would become "The Style". That, despite everybody always saying that Monkey Island changes its art style every game, we always knew that MI1 and MI2 had similar/identical character models, that if Tales Season 2 happened it would have looked like Tales Season 1, and also that if Return is overwhelmingly well-received to the point of demanding an immediate sequel then its art will look the same. Funko Pops looking like Rex. Novelty toys looking like Rex. T-shirts with images looking like Rex. A world in which the universe of Monkey Island will forever continue to look like the universe of Rex. Maybe for some people, that's the dream instead of the nightmare. For those of you who have this dream, I am sorry. And this is why we wage war against each other.

We should say 'the eye of the manatee' instead.

I'm still a little sad that playing E,C,E,D won't open anything.

I have a question related to the metanarrative. Guybrush is creating a path of destruction through this game, highlighted by cutscenes of Elaine coming after him and a long conversation between him and Elaine at the start of Part 5. (By the way, check in with Elaine after each cutscene. After the mop tree one, I went to Scurvy Island, and she asked me if I had a mop.) If we look through this with the lens of amusement park activities... are we to think that Guybrush is breaking the rules to certain games? Destroying park property? Making things harder for other players? Or, is Elaine's concern just part of her being "in character"? Similar to when you ask about her fight with Flair at the end, even though the amusement park is revealed and Flair would have presumably been an animatronic?

Everyone, make sure you get the Secret BEFORE you interact with LeChuck. Otherwise you miss a funny line about being glad you found the Secret before him.

Please link us to any podcast you have or will have.

But guys, what about that part in the third trailer, where Thrawn walks into the shop where Luthen works? And he looks at some ancient art from Fest and Kenari and he's like, "The Rebels who committed this crime have a member from Kenari who pretends to be from Fest. I understand everything now." And he shoots Luthen. In the trailer, remember? Do you think that's coming in the next few episodes?

The more I try to see the best of this story and appreciate its themes, the less I want to see any other Monkey Island sequels in the future. We turned out the lights. We finished the unfinished business. We're ready to leave this bench. Right? EDIT: If you would want a sequel someday, how would it... how would that even work? Just like a standalone pirate adventure, and we play through wondering what might actually be happening and which character is probably narrating/imagining it?