ThunderPeel2001

Ha. I love the idea that he's in hell... and maybe he's so annoying they send him back!

Once again, there are SO many ways to explain these things. I’m not saying this is what Ron is doing, but off the top of my head: Stan: We never release him from the coffin in RTMI. All conversations happen through the lid. Maybe we actually provide him with some sustenance to explain how he didn’t die. Voodoo Lady: Easy. You could literally repeat the same dialogue and it would still make sense. RTMI: Guybrush wants to tell her his stories of heroism and bravery (just like he tries to tell everyone on MI2), she’s not interested. CMI: Guybrush STILL wants to share his stories, she’s STILL not interested.

So wait… if Ron has been working on this for two years, does that mean he was working on Return while he did this?

It didn't stop him designing the Tales of Monkey Island box art

Any derivative work is automatically owned by Disney and can be shut down by them. Nothing Ron can do will change that, and as someone who is currently having to work with Disney… let’s just say they can be VERY protective of their IP. (Ron is in a great place because the IP currently dormant and not making them any money, but they still most likely don’t want to open the door to Guybrush and Herman Toothot erotic fan games.)

Or after MI4 or after Tales. This conversation was all in reference to Devolver Tweeting that RMI "picks up where Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge left off". Ben made the point that they might have meant thematically, and Goury said it was impossible to have a game set after MI2 and before CMI AND include Murray. So I was explaining how it's actually very possible to have both things IF Devolver's Tweet meant it literally. Random thought: Is Tim prevented from participating because of his studio's deal with Microsoft? I mean they basically bought DF in order to have exclusive Tim content on XBox. He can't really moonlight for someone else.

Ron likes it when we're all confused... I agree with others who have said that a multiverse solution would feel lazy right now. I forgave Marvel because they did it so well, and there's a long history with Spider-Man having lots of different universes, but just throwing it into MI because it's easy or "different" would be disappointing. I know Ron loves how upset everyone was at MI2's ending, you have to remember that 99% of the series wasn't that ending. It was a largely straightforward piratey adventure... and that's the thing we love. I hope he doesn't sacrifice characters and story trying to outdo himself on the weirdness front. Also despite what anyone says, there's a million easy ways to bring Murray into the narrative and still set the game before COMI. It's not a tricky narrative problem to solve at all. Your favourite TV shows and films do this sort of retcon all the time. ("Darth Vader killed your father... I mean he IS your father.") Some quick and easy solutions: Guybrush bangs his head, affecting his memories (despite this sounding lazy, it actually would allow for the whole of CMI to be reframed in an incredibly interesting way -- this is literally what Planescape Torment did and it's considered one of the best written narratives in gaming history -- it also featured a talking skull that pretends it's never met the protagonist for an interesting narrative reason). Voodoo. Did anyone forget that we have spells in this universe? Curses, enchantments, magical amulets... pick one and apply to your story as needed. This one is harder: Guybrush and Murray never actually cross paths (maybe we play as Elaine in parts of RMI and she's the one who gets pestered by him). Personality: You do the whole Lois Lane/Clark Kent thing. Guybrush is just annoyed by Murray the whole time and refuses to acknowledge him. There are SO many ways to make a direct sequel to MI2 that is set before CMI and features Murray. However that doesn't mean that's what Ron has chosen to do...

Wow, never heard this. It's great. I wonder if he someone could reach out and get those songs another way.

And here's the photo from that night in Feb 2017! It really incredible meeting him. He seemed very chilled out, but incredibly smart. And Jenn Sandercock (who is now working on Return to MI) took this photo.

The game starts directly after MI2 and doesn't negate CMI, so the obvious solution (which I hope Ron is doing) is to simply explain what happened between Guybrush being a kid and ending up in a sea worthy bumper car. (And maybe he can explain how Guybrush became so phobic of porcelain in the process.)

I wouldn't overthink it, Ron revealed during his Video Game History Foundation deep dive (see here: https://gamehistory.org/monkeyisland/) that he didn't have many plans beyond Guybrush going to hell. And he's also said that if he made MI3 now it wouldn't be the same game he would have made back then (it simply couldn't be, he's a different guy). We're just getting what Ron wants to do right now. I'm looking forward to it!

I agree with assessment that 1 is a more enjoyable game. It's the one I fell in love with (like no other game before it). And I was absolutely over the moon when 2 was released... but something was always "off" for me. Guybrush quite simply wasn't Guybrush. He really is a completely different character, and I missed the sweetness and charm of the original game. Of course I still played MI2 to death, and eventually learned to love MI2 for what it was. I now adore the world and the atmosphere. (Although I think back and I can't believe how much I suffered with those 11 disks on my Amiga!! Every change of scene required loading and swapping. And the second disk drive did nothing to help. I learned Zen patience from playing MI2...) However there was another thread running throughout the game that I picked up on: The pressure to make a sequel. Guybrush is constantly complaining that blowing up LeChuck wasn't enough, and he feels under pressure to do something bigger and better. Was that the writers echoing the pressure they felt making the game? It also seemed they basically stopped writing dialogue by the time Guybrush got to LeChuck's Fortress (everything is "Nice sign", "Nice door", "Nice skull"). Did they care less? And the ending itself is completely without joy. Merely a shock for the audience. (Although we all love it now... a lot of us were scarred by that ending!) There's even digs at MI2 within the game itself: Phatt Library famously includes a book with quotes from Hal Barwood (of Fate of Atlantis fame) on Monkey Island 2: "You can't polish a turd." and "Less is more." So this undercurrent made me feel the developers themselves weren't particularly happy, which had led to a less joyful game. I got to ask Ron Gilbert about this when he came to London. I'd waited 15 years for the opportunity! He thought for a moment and said, "Yeah, I can see why you'd say that, but we weren't under pressure. I actually start making MI2 before anyone at LucasArts had given us the greenlight. I thought it would be better to ask forgiveness than permission." So there you go. Of course, I'd love to know what Grossman, Schafer and Borowick have to say! (I also got to ask Barwood about that book in an email interview that I tragically lost. He said he felt it was the programmer's way of making fun of the pithy snippets of wisdom he'd share.)

I smell a CMI remaster if RTMI is successful...

There's definitely things I really enjoyed about EMI, I do think it's unfairly maligned sometimes. But it was also really lacking in the usual MI atmosphere. The world felt cold and empty compared to previous games. And the ending went off the rails... but it would be a lie to say that I didn't spend most of my time enjoying it.

I don’t know. I feel you can probably choose to ignore specifics in the Carnival of the Damned given the voodoo stuff surrounding it. I need to watch that CMI info dump again though.

EMI created a plot hole regarding Herman Toothrot. I remember that.

I think Ron got the pixel thing out if his system with TWP. It was a love letter to pixels. (Which was nice, but now it’s been done.) Hopefully the same is true of in jokes. I like in jokes, but I felt bludgeoned by them in TWP. It’s: 1. Love your characters 2. Story above all else 3. Don’t be afraid of emotional moments Not: 1. Don’t bother with characters 2. Story doesn’t really matter 3. Cram with in-jokes in lieu of not having the above two things Oh boy. It’s going to be a long slog thinking about this stuff until release day 🤣

I watched all the moments with Guybrush and Murray from CMI and I think you could just about wing it that they’ve met before. (In a Star Wars — “he killed your father, no wait, I meant he IS your father” / “I built C3P0 but now I don’t remember him” kind of way.) But as others have said, we might get to play as Elaine this time around (makes a kind of sense given Ron’s affinity for the character and the way MI2 ended — she might have to drag Guybrush out of the Big Whoop curse as part of the story). So she could bump into Murray (who presumably has a body at some point? Hell, we could maybe even meet him as a human before he becomes an undead pirate.) If Ron has gone the “post MI2, pre MI3” route, there’s just SO much fun they could have. Of course it’s a shame there’s no input from Schafer. And my dream would still be Peter Chan and Steve Purcell on art duties. But this is still so very exciting. One thing everyone forgets: The last time Grossman and Gilbert worked on a Monkey Island game together was Tales! And actually I’m surprised Gilbert hasn’t given him co-credit this time around. Maybe he’s got a really strong vision for what he wants to do. And I hope to fuck Gilbert has gotten the “a non ending is a great ending” thing out of his system. It ruined Thimbleweed Park.

I wanted to like this post, but the like function is broken. Nice find!

Yes, I think it might be!

Some interesting things to ponder: If it starts from the end of MI2, will we get to see Dinky again? Given the title, will we get to see Monkey Island again? And if the website is to be believed, will we get to see Melee and LeChuck's Ghost Ship again? Personally I'm not over the moon about the new art style (albeit from the limited glimpses we've seen of it). I know I'm biased because I LOVE Purcell's and Chan's work (I have a Purcell print hanging in my hallway). The two shots we've seen remind me of the first Special Edition, so that's triggering some trauma by itself. However looking at Rex Crowle's portfolio makes me worry less: His work is great! Definitely got his own style. And I'm already warming to the look in the trailer, so maybe it's all going to be OK!

Yes, I agree. If we're going to go back to original locations, then make them recognisable (ie. the same as when they were introduced)! MI4 be damned!

Time will tell, but I don't see how they can be careful to keep CMI canon AND set it after MI2 (unless he goes down the multiverse route, I guess?). Or he does something insane and meta and the game ends in the real world with someone playing CMI. Either way, this is a great find from Utwarrior: Yes, he's talking about the man he hired to do the visuals for Return to MI, Rex Crowle, back in 2009. Here's his take on Guybrush... a preview of what's to come? https://hairyteeth.blogspot.com/2009/07/guybrush-threepwood.html

Ha. Sorry. It's a bit of blur at the moment! I just found it.

So... apparently Devolver says it takes place right after MI2. And Ron says it doesn't negate CMI. Conclusion: It shows us exactly what led to Guybrush floating on the dodgem car at the beginning of CMI, allowing Gilbert to actually make MI3 after all (And also not negating what came after for any fans who enjoyed those games.)