The Return of Kick (among other things)

[Jello123]

Originally posted by FurionStormrage

Aaaaah! So you don't HAVE to move out of the way for sabres! You have a CHANCE at blocking! Thanks for proving my point (again).

 

eh..read the other half

 

unless you just HOPE you wont be hit or some **** like that

[Ardent]

Originally posted by FurionStormrage

I just love it when people bring out the ol' "so many people are saying this needs to be changed. IT MUST BE CHANGED!"

 

In almost every game, you have the MAJORITY of people who like the game and, therefore, do not post because they don't need to post. Then you have the VOCAL MINORITY of people who, for whatever reason, dislike the game and post (and post and post) until their point is conceded to only because everyone is tired with arguing the same point over and over again.

 

IF you feel that your assertion is correct, and IF you think that the majority of the players are going to vote the way you do then quite seriously start a petition and get votes for people to agree with you. IF you got any where near the votes to approach 20% of the sales of this game, THEN you may have a point. My bet is you would get considerably less...

 

There's no way to be certain of your opinion unless you speak up. That's exactly why America isn't a democracy. Too many people either don't care enough to speak up, or they're simply too uninformed to know they can exercise their right. The democratic system works (obviously, or we wouldn't have things like forums), but it only works under specific conditions.

 

THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY. By and large the community is not vocal enough as a whole and a lot of people who are vocal aren't informed. This is a capitalist demand sector. If enough people say they want something, then SOMEONE is going to provide the supply to meet the demand. Raven is the entity to meet that demand with supply.

 

Democracy with equality is idealistic garbage. Almost exactly parallel in bull**** capacity to socialism. Nobody is created equal and democracy doesn't work without discrimination. By the same token, you can't inflict a social equality without discrimination of some sort. Here's where I choose to discriminate: morons who are vocal without understanding the depth and breadth of the issues they're vocal on.

[Jello123]

Nice post.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by FurionStormrage

I just love it when people bring out the ol' "so many people are saying this needs to be changed. IT MUST BE CHANGED!"

 

In almost every game, you have the MAJORITY of people who like the game and, therefore, do not post because they don't need to post. Then you have the VOCAL MINORITY of people who, for whatever reason, dislike the game and post (and post and post) until their point is conceded to only because everyone is tired with arguing the same point over and over again.

 

IF you feel that your assertion is correct, and IF you think that the majority of the players are going to vote the way you do then quite seriously start a petition and get votes for people to agree with you. IF you got any where near the votes to approach 20% of the sales of this game, THEN you may have a point. My bet is you would get considerably less...

 

the glaring difference that i among others is that we want to ADD to gameplay. not remove aspects of it like that vocal minority did in JO and other games. that and a lot of people have NOT gotten the game simply becase it seems "newbie-fied" with the removal of several gameplay aspects that increased the pace of the game. thus making it more of a hold W and mouse1 for (eventual) kills.

[FurionStormrage]

Originally posted by Rumor

the glaring difference that i among others is that we want to ADD to gameplay. not remove aspects of it like that vocal minority did in JO and other games. that and a lot of people have NOT gotten the game simply becase it seems "newbie-fied" with the removal of several gameplay aspects that increased the pace of the game. thus making it more of a hold W and mouse1 for (eventual) kills.

 

Then please present your survey to Raven/Lucas Arts and have them present your survey AND ONLY YOUR survey to everyone who registers. I am dead serious about this suggestion.

 

IF you manage to garner 20% of the votes to do EXACTLY what you are wanting to do and affecting no other gameplay, I will move myself out of your way.

[Jello123]

it can be done if weiner, syn, and ardent work together...

 

laff that's crazy

[Undisputed]

Originally posted by [div3rse.jello]

Think JA should be changed somehow:

 

[div3rse.jello]

[div3rse.syn]

[div3rse.draco]

Side

the weiner dog!

traj

BigFurryWhale

The Undisputed

Comm 539

dyehead

megafu

fk | screed

Rumour

Th4tguy

Doctor Shaft

=X= Master Hex

CaptainJackZ

JaledDur

[nWo]Filth

Pyro

[fk]myth

SonGohanX

ic0n

SoulWraith

Guardian Omega

SuperNub

skinnypoo

[fk[mediablitz

blahbert

Zappa_0

Khier Serakk

g//plaZma

Flashram

[D]Fugs

derekdrygon

Blankie

Ardent

JarJarBinks

Jeff 42

InfErnO

Destino

noide

Imperial_thug

Spacebutler13

Poison

Rad Blackrose

NITEMARE

thelastaod

SatsuJin

Bladedog

kazesan

CanadianSurfer

 

Leave JA the way it is

 

Catalyst

Spider Al

Furion Stormrage

Reapy

Master Darkstar

Bacon000

Agen_Terminator

WaveV1589

skywalker19

Kusanavi

Sith_Shadowcat

Jah Warrior

Bloodriot

boigna1

Gabrobot

darth_michael

AxVegetA

 

 

The people that were left out weren't clear enough on their views of changes in JA. They liked some aspects of it, they didnt like some others. Either that or they just flamed us with stuff like "saber only CTF is gay" .

 

Unhappy: 53

 

Leave JA: 17

 

You can count them for yourself if you don't believe me.

 

Owned by Jello

 

gf

[Undisputed]

Originally posted by Ardent

There's no way to be certain of your opinion unless you speak up. That's exactly why America isn't a democracy. Too many people either don't care enough to speak up, or they're simply too uninformed to know they can exercise their right. The democratic system works (obviously, or we wouldn't have things like forums), but it only works under specific conditions.

 

THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY. By and large the community is not vocal enough as a whole and a lot of people who are vocal aren't informed. This is a capitalist demand sector. If enough people say they want something, then SOMEONE is going to provide the supply to meet the demand. Raven is the entity to meet that demand with supply.

 

Democracy with equality is idealistic garbage. Almost exactly parallel in bull**** capacity to socialism. Nobody is created equal and democracy doesn't work without discrimination. By the same token, you can't inflict a social equality without discrimination of some sort. Here's where I choose to discriminate: morons who are vocal without understanding the depth and breadth of the issues they're vocal on.

 

nicely said....I completely disagree with the last paragraph though

[Undisputed]

Oh yes... and it reminds me

 

How come saber staff and dual sabers get infinite chainable combos and it varies in the single saber?

 

Isn't that quite absurd?

[Undisputed]

Here is the most easiest solution to not having kicks as a part of your gameplay...

 

When the patch gets released allowing all the pt, ptks and kicks, just dont download it

 

lol its that simple, play the game as you like it and leave the .patch for people who think that the patch is worth downloading

[CaptainJackZ]

Great idea Uni. But I'm pretty sure you'll get lots of retorts about that. I still don't understand why however. But your list is very much incomplete, jello. There's a ****load of people I've talked to that really don't like this game the way it is. Thats' why they havn't bought it yet, and won't come here to voice their opinions.

 

oh and one other thing. Boinga you said

 

"The number of people who will leave JA because of a poor patch, or the people who will hate a patch, is FAR greater than the number of people who want it."

 

Prove this. You seem to be someone who only plays ffa and doesn't know how large the community of saber only ctf was. Well I'll tell you, we were huge. But 2 years of playing jk2 got kinda boring. So most of us were anxiously awaiting jk3...to be most disappointed. I couldn't beign to make a list of us all. But of everyone There were only 2 or 3 that liked it the way it is.

[BloodRiot]

Who says you are gonna get the patch anyway?

 

besides.. if the patch also includes bug fixes wont that affect the people that dont want those things back?

 

Some of you say JA isn't a standalone game but rather a JO mod... I say... you want JA to be a JO mod/expansion.

 

And btw captainjack... you are talking about people that haven't bought the game and say they dont like it... interesting.. so it's actuallky true that negative publicity is 10 times stronger than positive publicity. and you are also talking about people that no one has proof they or their opinions actually exist.

[Rockstar]

Stop whinning hey man. you say that the majority want the game changed SOME HOW.... SOMEHOW being the key word

 

ie my biggest complaint is the single saber's thing about that thing where you block a hard blow and your arms swing out like a bird and you are running around not able to attack for a few seconds. this wasn't a prob in JO but in JA its just quite unfair that it only happens with that style and not the others.

also, the single blade not having infinate chains when the others do.

 

that is the only thing i would change atm

 

STOP TRYING TO SAY YOU HAVE A MAJORITY TO WANT KICKS BACK, WHEN LUCAS ARTS TOOK THEM OUT BECAUSE THEY WERE SO COMPLAINED ABOUT STOP TRYING TO SAY YOU HAVE A MAJORITY TO WANT KICKS BACK, WHEN LUCAS ARTS TOOK THEM OUT BECAUSE THEY WERE SO COMPLAINED ABOUT

 

I don't really care what happens, though i guess it is a nice change not to have the crazy kicks and that saber fights are about lightsabers and not kickboxing lol

[Prime]

Originally posted by [div3rse.jello]

Think JA should be changed somehow:

 

1. Well Jello, since I don't see my name on either of those lists, I guess that means I haven't made it clear where I stand.

 

For any who care (which I wouldn't expect would be too many), my position right now is as follows:

 

I would like to see a few changes, but untimately I will continue to play the game if there are none, as I am having fun as it is now. That being said, I would be keen on the following changes:

 

1. Upped saber damage for the non-duel gametypes. Quicker kills in FFA would be more fun (and less frustrating), and I don't think this will sacrifice "skill" (whatever that really is). I would like DFA to be a one hit kill again, but the other special moves (such as katas) are fine the way they are. I believe that increasing the damage of regular swings would make them more useful (and thus appealing), and this would lead to less spammage of the special moves, IMO.

 

2. I would rather a no-Force requirement for any speacial move that is not a one hit kill. This includes things like lunges and the yellow overhead thing. If DFA becomes a one hit kill, I don't mind a bit of a force requirement. IF it remains a non one hit kill, I'd like it to be treated like the other regular special moves in this sense.

 

3. I don't mind the Force requirement for some moves, as I do believe it reduces spammage, but I would like to see the requirements reduced. I don't really think increasing the force regen time helps, because that can lead to overuse of other force powers. Granted, I'm not sure what the requirements for each move are right now, but having it require enough so you can only do a move once or twice seems a bit excessive. Being able to do a move four or five times might be better. IMO, what needs to be prevented is strategies like DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA...

 

4. Now for kicks. I don't have as much problem as I used to about kicks returning, but I would like it to be a bit different than the one in JO. First off, I'd want them to be togglable, because I recognise that a lot of the community doesn't want them back, and I don't want them alientated either. Also, I'd prefer a different animation so that it actually looks like a decent kick, not backwards flips. I'd like for it to have the same knockdown potential as JO, which IIRC didn't happen every time, especially if the victom was in red stance. Personally, I don't think there are enough knockdowns in JA, especially considering all the new moves to defend yourself in that position (which I'd like to remain). I'd like to be in a position to use those moves a bit more. As for damage, I'd be happy with two approaches. First is that if kick is going to ignore shields, I'd like the damaged to be reduced to about 10 health points or so (don't know what the perfect number would be). If it would no longer go through shields, I'd be happy with it doing the same damage or less than the blue stance. If the lightsaber damage is increased, I don't mind the kick damage being increased as well. Those who play S/O competative can let me know what they think of these kick ideas (but please don't tell me I am a newb and therefore my ideas don't count, because I am really getting tired of that).

[Comm539]

A postal, telephone and competetion survey by PC gamer in 2000 showed that on average, 65% of people who buy games that have a mp facility never use it, or play against bots on their own system.

 

I'm bored of repeating arguments that people answer with uninformed rubbish like "it'll ruin the game". At least explain how it'll ruin the game. If you want to stand against kicks, then at least admit that the reason why is because you're simply not good enough to use them or counter them.

Other people who can kick, but want it removed (although im sceptical of you) explain why.

 

One of the few things raven has added is the various 'getups' from a knockdown. Its ironic that they removed almost every way to score a knockdown. I'm thinking they removed kicks because of the staff kick. QWell just let the staff kick do more damage than a normal kick.

[FurionStormrage]

Originally posted by Comm539

A postal, telephone and competetion survey by PC gamer in 2000 showed that on average, 65% of people who buy games that have a mp facility never use it, or play against bots on their own system.

 

That sounds about right to me.

 

Originally posted by Comm539

I'm bored of repeating arguments that people answer with uninformed rubbish like "it'll ruin the game". At least explain how it'll ruin the game. If you want to stand against kicks, then at least admit that the reason why is because you're simply not good enough to use them or counter them.

Other people who can kick, but want it removed (although im sceptical of you) explain why.

 

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. You (the generic you, not you personally) are asking that something be added back in and are asserting that there is no or will be no change in gameplay for the rest of us. You (see disclaimer above) therefore need to prove that assertion. We already know what the gameplay is AT PRESENT. The burden of proof falls upon you (see disclaimer above).

 

Originally posted by Comm539

 

One of the few things raven has added is the various 'getups' from a knockdown. Its ironic that they removed almost every way to score a knockdown. I'm thinking they removed kicks because of the staff kick. QWell just let the staff kick do more damage than a normal kick.

 

I do find it rather puzzling that they removed almost all means of getting knocked down in MP but have so many means for getting back up... I am not so puzzled that I want them adding it back in.

[Comm539]

We want kick to s/o ctf. We've explained why this is necesarry.

You have said you don't want kicks. You've not provided an alternate way to stop an fc or why kicks would ruin a game (were the most efficient way (even with kciks) to kill a person is to run upto them and spam del sabers).

[ganjalf]

right my point is jedi knight one didnt have a kick multiplayer were good saber contact was a bit iffy but it were good. jedi Outcast had kick and resulted in many people saying U CHEESY ASS GROUND KILLIN LAMER DUDE U . and Jedi academy has about a few people going oh well theres no kick ill play anyway. MY POINT is that jedi academy isnt an expansion it just runs on the same engine and it has changes, personally (and a lot of other people will agree) i think the saber combat is a lot better (i still rock with single saber) and if u had a nob head with a 2 saber comin on ur server kickin everyne and ground killin em itd be not much fun, this is why i believe the saber staff as crap as it is has an advantage in this department but the 2 saber can throw and single saber has red stance. if u put kick back in ud render the saber staff secondary kick useless (and we dont want that now do we u little kick whores lol)

[Comm539]

Kicks would e toggleable. If so many people are against kicks, i don't see why anyone but s/o ctf servers would activate them.

 

The obvious thing to do would be to make kicks to 10hp damage and staff kicks do 20hp (or w/e, just normal kicks do less damage than staff kicks).

[ganjalf]

actually i been thinking the duel sabres kick yuh uses no force but if u had the jump kick on u could say like make it use 50 percent of ur force therefore ud have no spammage in FFA (was a good idea i thought

[Neko Lain]

I have not read every post

 

But yes, i think kick should be in the game.

 

But that is not the only problem.

The game needs things that are dangerous, that is the problem.

I thought jk 1.04 was boring, because nothing was dangerous anymore, you did not care if you got hit once or twice.

And that is how JA feels now.

I remember in 1.02 you could side slash into a group of players, and kill 3 players, with one swing. That is how it should be.

 

I do not understand why people should use push or pull, because unless you somehow manage to pull or push them into a pit, there is no point.

They dont fall down anymore, and the biggest point of push or pull is to throw them of balanse

 

I dont like these kata moves, they are like scripted combos that make no sense(they look nice, but it reminds me of street fighter or something), and you dont have any control over them.

Im not saying you should take them away, it is a good idea, but they should be redone, make it more of a special attack(which you have some control over), instead of special attackS

 

Kick should be there, like it was before.

And if they dont have kick, they should have another gameplay element to replace it.

That is what i think the problem is, they take away all these gameplay things(backslash, pull\push, kick, and so on), and they have only replaced it with stupid things, that really does not work.

I mean, it is ok if they take away something, aslong as they replace it with something better.

Like, these katas are sepost to be the new backslash, but i will almost never use them, because they are risky. Also i think the DFA is less effective then it was before.

 

I like the kick with the staff sabers, but it is alittle unaccurate, and sometimes i dont understand the point of it.

Because, it does no damage, and when you hit someone, they fall on the floor, and you can do this finishing move.

But anybody with half a brain will just roll away before you even started to attack.

So there should be something making it harder to "roll away"

Because i cant remember ever hitting anyone with that finishing move

Or you they should think of something else making the effort worth it.

 

They just have to make every part of the game have a point!

Like, push or pull? what is the point?

Kick, what is the point?

And so on

 

 

But i have just played this game for alittle while, and this is just what i think

[Ardent]

Originally posted by FurionStormrage

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. You (the generic you, not you personally) are asking that something be added back in and are asserting that there is no or will be no change in gameplay for the rest of us. You (see disclaimer above) therefore need to prove that assertion. We already know what the gameplay is AT PRESENT. The burden of proof falls upon you (see disclaimer above).

 

The only assertion made is "if people like kick, it will be used." That's all. If other people like kick, then you'll either have to deal with it or put the game away (or play with an earlier version).

 

I do find it rather puzzling that they removed almost all means of getting knocked down in MP but have so many means for getting back up... I am not so puzzled that I want them adding it back in.

 

Actually if you play the single player you'll understand a bit better. Why it was also implemented for MP is a fair question, though. It's nice that they're there, and they'll certainly be used with kick toggled back on.

[ganjalf]

yuh i too believe push and pull should be reinvented (so to speak) to say like if someone is doing a kata or a DFA or that gay ass crouch combo and hget pulled they should land flat on their face for about oooooooohhhhhh id say 6 seconds (thatll teach em to spam lol)

[FurionStormrage]

Originally posted by Comm539

We want kick to s/o ctf. We've explained why this is necesarry.

You have said you don't want kicks. You've not provided an alternate way to stop an fc or why kicks would ruin a game (were the most efficient way (even with kciks) to kill a person is to run upto them and spam del sabers).

 

Correction: I do not want kicks AS IMPLEMENTED IN JO!

 

If you can come up with a solution that, if implemented JA community wide, is acceptable to me (like being able to block a kick with a sabre ) then I am willing to look at the option.

 

While it may not have been my attempt to say kicking should never be available I don't want kicking AS IMPLEMENTED IN JO.

[FurionStormrage]

Originally posted by Ardent

The only assertion made is "if people like kick, it will be used." That's all. If other people like kick, then you'll either have to deal with it or put the game away (or play with an earlier version).

 

No, the ORIGINAL ASSERTION is that the FF S/O CTF community NEEDS AND DEMANDS a patch to re-implement kicks as an option. This original assertion is left as-is or added to with additional gametypes being thrown in depending on how many gametypes the asserter likes to play.

 

OUR request is that you prove that there will be no additional gameplay issues.

 

Originally posted by Ardent

Actually if you play the single player you'll understand a bit better. Why it was also implemented for MP is a fair question, though. It's nice that they're there, and they'll certainly be used with kick toggled back on.

 

I did play single-player, but I didn't buy it for single player. It is puzzling that they removed it from MP, but then again the sabres don't react in always the same way between the two. Even in JO 1.02 there's a delta between SP and MP; it's somewhat small but it's there.