Solo Saber Nerfed Thread

[Emon]

Originally posted by mikeyjuan

Yes they are useful fighting of flocks of people wildly swinging. Realistically if you ever get hit w/ one of those Kata's, you are the one who, in your words "sucks". In turn if you are doing these Kata's and leaving yourself vulnerable, again in your words, that makes you the one who......

 

Since I addressed how useless the Kata's are in a fight against anyone w/ common sense, that would explain why the only resort is to run around w/ mouse1.

 

Yes, I have days where my posts are immature because I get irritated reading some of the babble. But that is not the point. You can ask anyone about my nephew playing all the time, as you saw, someone figure out who I was just by me saying "I let my nephew play", because its something I, being the nice uncle, do regularly. And secondly it isn't a lie wish there was a way to prove it.

 

I was mainly agreeing with Al and Spider *i think it was, too lazy to check* but just like JK:O did, I dont know why JK:A wouldn't do the same afterall its 90% same game and probably 90% the same players. How about I reword that "JK:A will MOST LIKELY *not certainly* fragment as JK:O did because of the wide range of people who play JK games, the different types of game *ctf, duel, siege, etc*, as well as the wepon choices *saber only, guns, mixed...*"

 

Random personal attack, nice way to end your post. If you believe the saber system is not flawed, I suggest you do a search through this forum and read over the various complains of the saber inbalances and awkwardnesses (<-- is that a word?)

 

1. If the only new moves you can find are the katas, then I suggest you play the game a little more.

 

2. Again, there are more moves than the katas, and holding down mouse one is no way to fight. I think anyone with at least some casual experience in JO or JA can tell you that it's not only boring and stupid, but would make you lose against a skilled player.

 

3. Yeah. Okay.

 

4. I see, my apologies then, it appeared as if you were certain.

 

5. I didn't mean to attack you, I'm sorry. What I meant was, the saber system isn't fundamentally flawed, the basis of controlling the lightsaber through movement and some basic mouse movements is perfectly fine, at least for myself and most other people (making this judgement based on the high sales and opinions of the past three games). I understand there may be balance issues, but I don't see this as a flaw in the system itself, it's rather superficial in my eyes. What I meant by "you are" was that either you haven't played much with the saber system to fully understand it, or it's your own problem if you just don't like it, but I can't agree with you that it's actually flawed in concept. That was a poor way of wording it, I'm sorry.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by Emon

I'm a hardcore gamer, and I love it. I don't play competitively, but I don't see why I can't be classified as hardcore, gaming and editing games is my biggest hobby.

 

And, pardon me, but, what would you know about the game? It appears you just registered this month, which, unless you had an old name, means you probably haven't played JO competitively, either, because you almost certantly would have been registered here.

 

so, like myself, media, uj, rad, and plaz are the only competitive gamers who posted here, rite?

 

right now i just want to go on a rant about how stupid you are but i won't.

 

99% of the people who play competitively do NOT even read these forums. much less register.

 

i can name three competitive gunners who have posted on these boards. Bilbo Skywalker, GEEZus!, and pds.silentsoul. that excludes myself and plazma who are more on the side of saber only players.

 

hell 99% of the people who even OWN the game don't even know of this place...

[g//anarki]

Originally posted by Emon

And, pardon me, but, what would you know about the game? It appears you just registered this month, which, unless you had an old name, means you probably haven't played JO competitively, either, because you almost certantly would have been registered here.

 

Do you really think that the mass of the community are all signed up on LF and the only ones who know stuff about the game have been signed up for a few months? What does LF have to do with competition and ladder play?

 

Sorry but sin (mikeyjuan) > you

[Emon]

Oh, eh, a few final things. I mostly agree with Spider AL, and I think both parties have brought up some excellent points. It seems you now agree on several of them, and the only ones you disagree on are based on opinion. Who thinks what is a bug, who decides when a patch should be out... Whatever. But, you know, in Raven's eyes, this thread is ridiculously stupid and serves them no point, because they probably see it (if someone managed to get this far) as pointless bickering among some players. And I would be forced to agree with that conclusion.

 

Look, it's simple. You can debate when the time for a patch is right, you can debate what's right to put in it, but you cannot debate if Raven believes there should be a patch, or when they believe they should release it. Debating, arguing, flaming, trolling, whatever, isn't going to make it arrive sooner or get you any answers. Even though I haven't said much here, I haven't always acted as I should have, and I'm sorry if I have offended anyone. But this is getting so ridiculous, it's going nowhere. I think it would be in the best interest of just about everyone, in this thread or not, for this thread to be closed. It's pointless bickering, and it's now clutter on the forums. At least I think it is.

 

Anyway, I'm out of here, this is just insane.

 

 

Edit: One last thing, I was only saying, that from the way he posted, and the fact that he just registered, he seemed like another guy saying, "hey I just got this game I r leet!" like so many others. I put the pardon in front because I knew I could have been mistaken. I might have been upset when I posted that, either way, I shouldn't have, sorry.

[mikeyjuan]

LoL i was only giving you hard time about the last one, its all good . I used to post on the TWL Forums, where my clan competed, so flames and such dont bug me.

 

If you have doubts about the saber system being flawed find someone you know who plays JK:A, call them up on the phone, go on an empty server.

 

One person attack at a time, the other person just stand there, so they can monitor damage delt. Do the same motion of attack various times. Start w/ something you think will do a lot of damage. On my own experiments, done this same way, one time it would do 10 damage one time it would do 60 damage, everything else constant.

 

Now this being said, how is the competitive-hardcore gamer supposed to formulate any type of intricate combination moves, which, is after all what they thrive for (and as the community advances, will soon also want). But they have no idea how much damage they are going to do. Even saber throw damage can vary by 20 dmg points +-.

 

I wont go into more detail because its useless till you try it on your own, but i do suggest you give it a go to verify my complaints with the saber system.

 

sux0r me YouJay! LoL!

[FK | unnamed]

^ he beat me and break_dF up in a teamffa on twl one time.

 

 

Sinny (mikeyjuan) is the real deal emon; he's one of the best team based players to ever hit a jk2 server.

 

Just because people don't have a high post count, or even an account for that matter, at Lucas Forums, does not mean they are new to the game.

 

Only maybe .00000001% of the competitive players in this community will even post here.

 

it's kind of the same reason we don't see many Lucas Forum users posting on TWL, different strokes for different folks.

 

 

/edit

 

I just looked at the screens from that match, I got 1 more kill than sinny in the first round.

 

hahah sin you suck, my 3 kills own your 2, emon is right, stfu noob.

 

[FK | unnamed]

Oh yeah, now I remember why I posted here...

 

Vanor, glad you see where I am coming from.

 

Also wanted to say thank you for looking at what I stated with an open mind and not forming an opinion based on the person, as opposed to the material.

 

If the rest of you would just do like he did, go back up a few posts and read how I laid out in detail the specific problems to the game balance these nerfs created, you would actually see why we are here commenting on this stuff.

 

People can ramble on all they like and shout from their soap boxes about this or that, but the fact remains, I laid out very specific game play issues and how the new nerfs directly caused them and there is simply no way you can disprove my claims.

 

 

Please just don't let your dislike for the person, cloud the evidence sitting in front of your face.

 

Example:

 

I tell you people grip is useless with a LOS restriction.

 

I tell you specifically why it is useless with facts based on game play experience.

 

 

Fact:

 

The gripper does not have any other means to prevent the hold from being broken with a push/pull other than waving his mouse around in some fashion.

 

This is not opinion, it is *fact.

 

 

Fact:

 

Due to the new LOS restriction, there is simply no way to prevent your hold from being broken other than shaking a mouse, and unless the person being gripped has extremely poor reflexes, it's going to be broken.

 

Fact:

 

All the gripped person has to do is trace his mouse movement with your shakes and even if you do shake him all to hell, a simple push/pull will break it in under 2 seconds.

 

 

Now you can sit here and say asinine things like "It's a new game, learn it before you whine".

 

But seriously, that's just a chicken**** way of ignoring the facts sitting right in front of you, and making a generic "soap box rant" statement at the individual rather than dispute the claim about the game play he made with evidence to the contrary.

 

If I say "When I turn on absorb my player glows pink"

 

 

You should say "No he does not, he turns blue".

 

That is how you debate us, not with stupid crap like "The game has only been out for two weeks, you can't know everything".

 

[sarcasm]Yes, you are right, specials must not cost 25 force, hmm I think I will go play the game for another 3 months and then I will come back and if it's ok with you I will ask everyone if my original observation about specials costing 25 force was correct![/sarcasm]

 

 

Really people, that's ^ how damn stupid some of you are sounding...

[Gabrobot]

Originally posted by mikeyjuan

LoL i was only giving you hard time about the last one, its all good . I used to post on the TWL Forums, where my clan competed, so flames and such dont bug me.

 

If you have doubts about the saber system being flawed find someone you know who plays JK:A, call them up on the phone, go on an empty server.

 

One person attack at a time, the other person just stand there, so they can monitor damage delt. Do the same motion of attack various times. Start w/ something you think will do a lot of damage. On my own experiments, done this same way, one time it would do 10 damage one time it would do 60 damage, everything else constant.

 

Now this being said, how is the competitive-hardcore gamer supposed to formulate any type of intricate combination moves, which, is after all what they thrive for (and as the community advances, will soon also want). But they have no idea how much damage they are going to do. Even saber throw damage can vary by 20 dmg points +-.

 

I wont go into more detail because its useless till you try it on your own, but i do suggest you give it a go to verify my complaints with the saber system.

 

Hmmm...I know that MP now has Ghoul 2 collision detection...it might have positional damage, like SP, now as well. That's what it sounds like to me...

 

And FK: We aren't debating the existence of the fact that some moves take a certain amount of force, or such things...the point we have been trying to make is that there may be counters in JA which are completely new. Also, I'd like to point out that it seems Raven really didn't have NG CTF in mind when they did the balancing...

In any case, I don't think it's the job of the players to tell Raven what should be changed in the patch. Players should tell Raven about issues, but that's all. Raven is the developer, and they are the ones who should be making the overall decisions.

[mikeyjuan]

Yes that would be wonderful if every time i slashed someone's leg it did 15-25 dmg and everytime i slashed someones head it did 50-60 damage. But that is not the case. I could slash through head and deal 15 damage, and cut the legs and do 40.

[Gabrobot]

Originally posted by mikeyjuan

Yes that would be wonderful if every time i slashed someone's leg it did 15-25 dmg and everytime i slashed someones head it did 50-60 damage. But that is not the case. I could slash through head and deal 15 damage, and cut the legs and do 40.

 

Are you completely sure the saber is hitting the right areas? (I don't mean where you see your saber hitting, but where the server actually registers it hitting...) I'll have to do some bot tests, and see what happens... (lag free, and the server is here)

[FK | unnamed]

Hey sin did you press tab to see what your ping was?

 

Man I totally forgot to do that.

 

 

I mean I usually only play on servers where I ping around 20-30 and I use cg_lagometer 1 to monitor any packet loss, but maybe we are noobs and are really playing with 700 pings and just unaware of it.

 

and like when I play those bots offline and my saber passes right through it's torso but I register no hit, maybe after like one and a half years of sabering, I still have not learned how to swing properly when I'm trying to register hits on player models.

 

Damn, I got sooo lucky in all those matches I won over the last year.

 

 

 

Man, I'm glad you guys told us newbie’s about this stuff, any other tips for us guys who have never used the Internet before?

 

Oh yeah, maybe I got one of those virus things I heard about on television.

If I had a virus my computer won’t work right so that must have been the problem all along.

 

Rofl, silly me, I feel so embarrassed.

[Rumor]

uj: stfu u lamer. you have no honor! i bet you only use red stance!

[-(- -)-Pyro]

Originally posted by Gabrobot

In any case, I don't think

[-(- -)-Pyro]

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

I play those bots offline

 

and I got one of those virus things

[RigoR_MortiS]

This is the one of the best flame war threads I have seen. %90 of the text is about how troll someone or how bossy someone is, but this has done with such skill from both sides that one can only see at a distunguished university philosophy course. I like Spider Al and his delightful use of words, I think I will never be able to use the English Language as fine as a weapon as he does (not my native language). One of the best intellectual flame wars in a forum. Gods of deceit and chaos are pleased

 

Enough on non-constructive blabla that plagues this thread. I want to point out to the some imbalances I noticed in NF SO (power) duels (which is my primary mode of play, and in my country's servers [Turkey]), because I like the thrill of fighting 1on1 or 1on2 and want it to be a fair and square clash of skills and willpower . I first played JO 1.03 and still playing the series, JA.

 

I am asking the question, does single saber, staff saber and dual sabers were intended to be balanced in the first place? I hope so, becuase balance will ensure the use of all of the three sabers, and will make duelling a more diverse and ultimately fun experience. That's why we play this game, right?

 

I agree that from my past experiences of JO, that a game this complex, needs more time to be explored througly. I still remember the time I first started to use jump key while using red stance in JO duels, the timing was very critical to not to do a DFA but a flying slash. My usual opponents were first confused by the unusual appearence of a red user who jumps a lot, but mostly they get used to this and found new counters to my strategies. My point in giving this example is that this game is so complex that we need time to find new strategies and counter-strategies. This game actually evolves and that's the best part of it. It is early to say that this is imbalanced or this needs nerfing, BUT I will state my opinions on the matter of the imbalances I can clearly see in duels between different type of sabers. Time will say the final word on who is right or wrong.

Now, some facts. It is a healtier approach that to think the balance in a duel in two levels; basic moves and specials.

 

In basic moves department, besides some damage, defense and hit-detection problems (which I think was per-polygon-hit-detection?), single saber can compete fairly well(!). oh yeah I know single saber how to use thanks to JO, and I know how to use the basic moves in them, primarly the red stance ones. The obvious range advantage is in red one, so a skilled player can own any newbie. Defense needs a little boost, 'cause it does not block at all any move of dual and staff sabers, and actually if it does, you cannot control it or anticipate it. just random it seems. But this needs time to observe more clearly. By the way I love that you have to use more skill and must actively dodge, roll, cartwheel, wallwalk to escape staff and dual maniacs. It is the thrill of the fight

 

May be Raven wanted to encourage the players to use staff and dual, so they a little overpowered them. I wonder if they didn't see that just for the sake of change and coolness of these two baybies they will be used extensively.

 

 

When I look at the specials of each three sabers, there is a clear difference. First specials of staff. The dreaded Butterfly of the staff is the biggest problem. Yes it needs skill to actually time it right and it is hard to control and not very clear when and how will it damage the opponent, but after a little time with it, you get used to it. It can kill a duelist instantly (quite frankly, it usually does), cannot be blocked with a single saber and it needs a kata to break the butterflyers defense , . Hardly fair when you compare it with ANY moves of single saber. Kata=50 force. Butterfly=30? (not sure if it is the exact number, but near enough I think). Hardly fair. The extremely mobile and longlasting butterfly makes it a devastating move when combined with one-graze-of-that-light-stick-will-indeed-kill-you.

 

Specials of dual. The incredibely stupid kata takes all the advantages of dual saber and makes it a fairly balanced style against single saber

Specials of single. Well, katas rock. They are not devastating like kata of staff, but you have 3 katas so it's versatile. And DFAs of medium and heavy stances are completly useless. I don't want them the way they were in JO, but FOR GODS SAKE it is impossible to hit with them to a perfectly standing still duelist! At least delete them completely, that would be better than to see people trying to use them and becoming completely frustrated with JA.

 

These are some of my observations about the game. For patching, I repeat it is still early for gameplay changes this significant, we must be patient and give these new game dynamics a chance and I still believe that time only will clarify these and some more imbalances in dueling that I pointed above. I am aware that I wanted things to change, you may call it whining for a patch if you wish and that won't change that I think I stated some facts with minor relativistic problems

 

A final note for Spider Al, you repatedly say that it is early for a patch, don't worry point taken. Now when I get this, I saw that your posts are generally about other posts above you, critisizing them and making their owners feel sick basically. Besides these mental attacks and defenses I was not been able to see any thing about the thoughts that were supposed to be in this thread in the first place, those are being the early observations about the game balance in multiplayer.You may see this as an underground lobbying for a patch. Well don't let these whinners(!) cloud your judgement about the saber fights in MP, basically please state your thougts about MP dueling, however if you still think that it is early to state your thougts about the game, well I respect that. Being a seasoned player of JK series yourself, with all respect what do you think about the balance problems (if any) in multiplayer saber duelling? I (and possibly any other poeple reading this thread right now) will be very very glad to see a difference in the trend of your posts in this topic, which is a general campaign of stop immature patches.

[mikeyjuan]

I dont know UJ I think it was one of those high latency Zimbabwe broad band connections the server was being hosted from. It said something about it being a dialup-connection server. Usually its only a 2 person server but they were teesting it with 16.

[g//anarki]

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

Hey sin did you press tab to see what your ping was?

 

Man I totally forgot to do that.

 

 

I mean I usually only play on servers where I ping around 20-30 and I use cg_lagometer 1 to monitor any packet loss, but maybe we are noobs and are really playing with 700 pings and just unaware of it.

 

and like when I play those bots offline and my saber passes right through it's torso but I register no hit, maybe after like one and a half years of sabering, I still have not learned how to swing properly when I'm trying to register hits on player models.

 

Damn, I got sooo lucky in all those matches I won over the last year.

 

 

 

Man, I'm glad you guys told us newbie’s about this stuff, any other tips for us guys who have never used the Internet before?

 

Oh yeah, maybe I got one of those virus things I heard about on television.

If I had a virus my computer won’t work right so that must have been the problem all along.

 

Rofl, silly me, I feel so embarrassed.

 

[sarcasm]YES THIS MUST BE THE PROBLEM MAYBE YOU SHOOD GET ON A BETTER CONNEXION NUB HAHAHAHA LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!1111ONEONE[/sarcasm]

[Gabrobot]

I did several tests in a duel bot match with force disabled. I turned off my saber and let the bot swing at me, and I was able to see how much damage was done when the saber hit various parts of my players body. I didn't see any problems with the collison detection. I noticed that it does seem to be using positonal hit detection, and that sabers don't do damage when they aren't being swung.

 

I also didn't see anything wrong with the terrain... (do you even know what ARIOCHE terrain is?)

 

Perhaps the problems you mentioned are a result of the bugs in the server code stuff that Raven said they fixed in the patch they're making?

 

I wonder about the existance of such bugs, however, when I see the infantile responses of FK | unnamed, Rumor, GreenSmoke, mikeyjuan and g//plaZma...

[g//anarki]

Originally posted by Gabrobot

I did several tests in a duel bot match with force disabled. I turned off my saber and let the bot swing at me, and I was able to see how much damage was done when the saber hit various parts of my players body. I didn't see any problems with the collison detection. I noticed that it does seem to be using positonal hit detection, and that sabers don't do damage when they aren't being swung.

 

I also didn't see anything wrong with the terrain... (do you even know what ARIOCHE terrain is?)

 

Perhaps the problems you mentioned are a result of the bugs in the server code stuff that Raven said they fixed in the patch they're making?

 

I wonder about the existance of such bugs, however, when I see the infantile responses of FK | unnamed, Rumor, GreenSmoke, mikeyjuan and g//plaZma...

 

We responded this way because you were insulting our intelligence.

[Gabrobot]

Originally posted by g//plaZma

We responded this way because you were insulting our intelligence.

 

Hey, there's no need for me to do it...you're doing fine by yourself!

 

Seriously, though...how about an intelligent response.

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

As you all seem to lack the decency to respond to my posts point-by-point

As soon as you make a point, I address it. The fact that you haven't made many points so far is perhaps the reason for the fact that most of my posts are by rote defences against predictable flames, the major component of all your posts.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Yep, you're not qualified by your own admission. Now stop trying to say you're more qualified than we are. Over and over again. We're big boys, we can make our own decisions about what is an isn't premature.

Once again you fail to grasp the gist of the argument. The point is that NOBODY is qualified to make gameplay changes at this point. Therefore, you shouldn't run around demanding such changes yet. That's crystal clear, I should have thought. We shall see whether Ardent manages to purposely misunderstand it.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Then how can you have a "serious" foundation? I put "serious" in quotes because it's a hanging adjective. It's neither necessary nor expressive where it is. You sau that we can't possibly have a foundation to build our arguments on, SO HOW CAN YOU BUILD YOURS?

Lol, because of course my only argument is that none of us have the foundation to build demands for gameplay changes yet. I'm simply stating the obvious, which in a roundabout way you've admitted is obvious several times so far. Do you see me demanding gameplay changes? Of course you don't. I hope that's clear enough. If not, do tell me.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Once again, in your infinite wisdom, you are telling us exactly when this patch should occur because obviously you know better

Well it would appear that I know better than to flame people and churn out repetitive trollishness. Unlike SOME people.

 

But once again you're mistaken. I've stated my own ideal time for a patch to be discussed. But that's not the specific statement I've made, is it. The specific statement I've made is that NOW is too early. Which it is, by any stretch of a sane imagination.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Go look at some of the ownage shots I've put up. I'm only mediocre as this group of guys goes, and I can utterly romp all over 99% of the community. That 99% includes you, because I can account for the 1% I can't romp on.

 

Yes, I'm sure you "PWN" me. Despite the fact that we play different gametypes, the fact that you've never played me... and the pertinent and pesky fact that you know nothing about my skill level in this or any other game.

 

No, I'm sure you're right, and that what you just posted wasn't the most laughable and feeble excuse for an immature trolling flame I've ever seen in my life.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Prior to this, I think everyone had conducted themselves professionally

Uh-huh. I'd always theorised that people like yourself had a thin grasp on what we call "reality". You just became a confirmation of my life's work. Ta.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Wha wha wha? Frankly, most of the people who post here ARE in favor of changes. If "most" of the people who are in favor of your position are actually out there, go get them and tell them to post here.

Mmkay. Firstly being in favour of changes doesn't mean wanting a premature patch. And if you're asserting that the majority of people who post on LF want a premature patch for JA, well you'd have to produce accurate numbers to back that up. The field seems quite balanced to me, and new anti-premature-patch spokespeople are turning up all the time, while your group seems to be dwindling fast as it tuckers itself out.

 

Secondly the reason there's a number of you on these forums lobbying for a premature patch is that you all popped into your, and each other's, clan forums to pick up support. You're a tiny number really, but one that shouts loudly, and the reason you think opposition is small is that you're wilfully blind to it, rubbishing it as soon as it appears and attempting to ignore its most pertinent points. The fact that many of the people who are happily playing the game haven't posted in here is yet... because they're HAPPY, is another slap in the face for your self-indulgence as a group.

 

Now you've shot yourself in the foot again, because you failed to remember this: You're the one who claims you're in a majority, so YOU have to back it up. That you have not done. We have never claimed anything of the kind, so once again, we come back to you, your group and you personally, who have done nothing to prove wild unsubstantiated claims which are designed to add weight to an untenable position, but merely serve to show it up for what it is.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

A note: buy a nVIDIA card and save yourself the trouble. Sorry Emon, it had to be said.

Ah, when it's not YOUR problem, what do you say? "Deal with it". When it is your problem, you react violently to any suggestion that you "deal with it", instead demanding sweeping and instant changes from Raven. Lol, and you accused me of hypocrisy earlier? This just keeps getting better and better.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Mmmhmmm. "We" being your clan, right? Well, your clan was about 2 months and 29 days behind the rest of us. Which is exactly where you seem to be with patching. Probably not a coincidence.

Oh of course. You're now claiming that you are an expert in JA, and that you were an expert in JO from the moment it was released. Good luck on that one. Blaahahaha.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

How many was it by your last count? Hm? Thirteen? Yeah...you're exactly like the termites coming out of the woodwork...an acceptable loss to the ecosystem as far as natural selection is concerned. There were easily 20+ favoring the position Traj and I defend. But the difference is neither of us was counting after twenty.

Oh there were about twenty of you milling around at one point. That seems to be down to around five now, and we on the other hand are just growing and growing. Welcome to silence. It's all around you.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Yes, do try to be more adult, please. Speaking of which...I need to ask Dyehead to ask Kurgan to close this thread. Thanks for the reminder.

Closing the thread? That's great. Then all these silly demands for a premature patch can be forgotten... and we can move on to the NEXT silly premature-patch-demanding thread. It really makes no odds to us.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

You've met about 50% of the roster of both Team USA and Team Canada for the world ladder competition over the course of your seven-page diatribe against reality. We're not some geeks off the street. We're handy with the steel if you know what I mean.

Oh yes, you're leet NG CTF0rz. "Handy with tha steel".

 

The JO competitive community wasn't a healthy one Ardent. Not compared to CS or Q. The fact that some NG fellows from JO may have decided to have an international competition with some of their other NG friends from Canada, and declared themselves "Team USA" means little or nothing to me. Alleging yourself to be a decent player of JO certainly doesn't give you the right to demand that gameplay be altered prematurely.

 

If being a decent JO player gave one the right to change gameplay prematurely, guess what. I'd be lobbying for my own idea of the perfect game right now. Of course, that would be self-indulgent and immature... but hey.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Einstein's Theory of Relativity, when boiled down, points out that any change produces unpredictable effects because of the way every change ripples outward into the sum of reality.

And there's silly old me thinking that the Theory of Relativity "when boiled down" pointed out that the motion of a system in one frame of reference affects time relative to (in other words when viewed from) another frame of reference. Now I know better, thanks to Ardent.

 

Now I know that Einstein wants a premature gameplay patch for JA.

 

He's dead though. CAN you REALLY trust the judgement of a dead physicist? No matter how brilliant?

 

All that self-indulgent pseudo-intellectualism missed one very important point: Conscious interference in a natural process such as evolution, in this case evolution of the game and its own unique flavour, style and community, causes abberant effects. If the game's fate is to lose a valuable commodity like you and your friends to Halo, then that is it's fate. None may go against the will of fate.

 

And none may jeopardise the welfare of the JA community to satisfy some unrealistic pre-game expectations.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

We're back around to you not thinking you're qualified enough, but we completely missed where you destroyed the idea that we're qualified enough to declare what needs to be fixed.

Once again you are wilfully blind. It's too early for anyone to claim to be a JA expert. Therefore, I am not qualified. Therefore YOU are not qualified. Therefore NOBODY is qualified, and we should all wait happily until we've amassed sufficient playtime and experience to call ourselves experts.

 

Naturally though, you consider yourself to be the chosen one, gifted with the uber-power of insta-leetness. That's fine. Good luck with that. The rest of us mortals will wait for a prudent time to evaluate gameplay modifications, thanks.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Now, I don't know [D]Fugs personally, but I can already tell he's a stand up kinda fellow. A good fellow. You were trying to stifle our right to free speech while exercising your own. H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y. Say it with me: hypocrisy.

Ahh so THAT'S where you went wrong. Well my friend, I'll alleviate the burden of fallibility from your shoulders on this particular issue, and straighten you out.

 

YOU and the NG CTFers want to CHANGE the gameplay of JA, prematurely, in a patch. This is not merely the expression of an opinion, it's an active attempt to alter the game for EVERYONE. Thus, it's selfish and dangerous. Free speech is fine, but the right free speech doesn't cover knife-attacks.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

Here we see early signs of ignoring half of the point of a responder's argument.

Umm... you've just misunderstood things again, apparently. That response of mine was fully pertinent and accurate.

 

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Spider AL

I argue and patronise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You said it yourself.

Oh we've descended to quoting people out of context have we? How schoolyard. What debate forums have you been frequenting? Sheesh.

 

The original line I typed out, for the benefit of anyone still slightly confused about the level of Ardent's maturity was "I argue and patronise? No I don't." How painful it is to watch this flailing. The coup de grace is needed perhaps?

 

Nah.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

UJ could do so because he played 1.04. He saw how Raven, as you admit yourself, fixed most of the problems they created with the 1.03 patch. That's a fact.

Yep, thank god Raven liked the community enough to try to fix all the stupid problems created by 1.03, the kind of premature patch you're currently asking for. Thanks for reminding me.

 

Originally posted by Ardent:

 

I don't see any need to continue from here, as it's pretty clear where things were going. As I said before, gf and gg. Now go get some practice and maybe next time you'll win

Urrm...

 

Ardent sits. He sits in the carnage that he brought upon himself, a wasteland of burned out buildings and desolate scrub brush. He whispers something over and over to himself through his charred and wasted mouth as he rocks back and forth mechanically.

 

If the observer chanced to come close enough, perhaps he would hear the plaintive murmur more clearly...

 

"I win... I win... I win... Stfu..."

 

 

Originally posted by Vanor:

 

It's like someone turning on the raido, not liking the station that's currently on, and calling the station asking that they change the format. Rather then simply finding a different station they like.

Hear hear Vanor, well put.

 

Originally posted by FK | unnamed:

 

And all we ask is cvars.

 

You get your game play how you like it, we get ours the way we like it.

Sorry Unnamed, it just doesn't wash, no matter how many times you repeat it. Reintroducing elements like kick into JA's gameplay would cause many many splits in the new and burgeoning JA community. It's not worth it, no matter how necessary it may seem to you for your NG CTF gametype.

 

And man, close them bold tags. It's hard to read an entirely bold message.

 

Originally posted by traj:

 

You belive that we MUST wait a certain amount of time before we call for a patch. You believe it to be premature, and you believe that it would fragment the community drastically.

 

I understand completely. I disagree however.

This isn't a debate about which movies are fun to watch and which aren't. It's not relative, it's not subjective. It's a position based on evidence, a HOST of games back into the deeps of time that have all been knobbled by premature patching, and it's based on first-hand experience of what happened to JO.

 

You can disagree with it all you like, but unless you produce some CONCRETE examples to support your disagreement... you're just being self-indulgently illogical.

 

Originally posted by traj:

 

Anything that I have said that you may have taken personally are the results of something you may have said.

Ohh right. "I insulted you, but it was your fault because you said something I disagreed with." Yeah, that's not trolling at all.

 

Originally posted by g//plaZma:

 

We responded this way because you were insulting our intelligence.

What. Because we disagreed with you? Uh-huh.

 

No gameplay patching until more weeks have passed, Raven! Now would be premature!

[mikeyjuan]

Is there anywayy to put Al on ignore? I'm tired of seeing his posts take up like 50 pages of text, when all he does is argue w/ Ardent.

 

Anyway your 'testing' for damage was flawed from the get go using bots. They are obviouslly not going to do the same swing over and over with out adjusting position or angle. This is why you need another human person to test it with. Also by doing that you get a zero ping. I'm not sure 'why' its flawed, but people who seem to know more about the code of this game then I, have said that the netcode might be the cause. I had about a 80 - 100 ping when i tested it. This should be more then adequate not to have any flaws.

[Rad Blackrose]

User CP > Edit Ignore List

[Gabrobot]

Originally posted by mikeyjuan

Is there anywayy to put Al on ignore? I'm tired of seeing his posts take up like 50 pages of text, when all he does is argue w/ Ardent.

 

Anyway your 'testing' for damage was flawed from the get go using bots. They are obviouslly not going to do the same swing over and over with out adjusting position or angle. This is why you need another human person to test it with. Also by doing that you get a zero ping. I'm not sure 'why' its flawed, but people who seem to know more about the code of this game then I, have said that the netcode might be the cause. I had about a 80 - 100 ping when i tested it. This should be more then adequate not to have any flaws.

 

What I do is I watch where the bots saber hits my body and I look at how much damage it does...seems pretty straight forward, eh? By using bots, it rules out all lag, and you can see where the saber really is (if you have any lag, and especially as much as 80-100, where you see the saber, and where the saber really should be, are different. It's like if you fired a gun, but instead of it waiting to move shot so that it's synced and accurately shown, it shows the shot being fired right away, and thus is inaccurate since the real position of the shot is behind.).

 

And I said the cause might be the net code...that's why I used bots. What you said, before, was that the saber system was flawed ("it does not help because of flawed saber system w/ spuratic defence and random damage it becomes skill-less; making it so 'competitive' players wont want to play it."), not that there was a bug in the net code. What you said was there was something wrong with the design, when the problem may be technical. Now if a change was made in the design, when the problem was technical, then nothing would be solved.

 

Also, AL's post was great...he was addressing all of Ardent's points...ignoring him would just be yet another infantile act. ([EXAMPLE][WHINEVOICE]I don't like what you're saying so I'm going to turn my back on you and ignore you, so there! Hhhmmmff![/WHINEVOICE][/EXAMPLE])

[mikeyjuan]

I care not of Al's points though nor have any desire to learn all these insights he has that no one else does- especially when they are like 90234903242 pages long. Its obvious we dissagree about the need of a patch, he is not going to convice me, just as I am not going to convice him.

 

Al is obviouslly not the hardcore-comptetive gamer that me, nor the other in the group of *whiners* are. All he says is we need to experiment w/ the game more before we make a decision. As I said before the hardcore-competitive gamer has explored everything the game has to offer, and with in another month or two the rest of the community will also be amonst the "whiner "group. when they realise the lack of content the game has.

 

Anyway, have you tryed it my way yet? Because unless you plan on playing bots your whole life of JK:A, you will too run into a problem when there is any latency between you and your opponnents. Just because it works on the bots which I have no desire to test, because I dont play bots, doesn't mean it will work in the multiplayer when there IS a ping between two players. You will find the incosistancies.