Tyrion Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 http://johntitor.strategicbrains.com/CopyrightProof.cfm According to the website, John Titor made some apocolyptic news in 2000 about what's to come . In 2004-2005, there's going to be a civil war in the U.S.A. (He also said we're going to lose our freedom for secuirty..creepy, aint it?) that started from the government having the ability to arrest and break into houses without warrents(again, it's begginning to happen..creepy). He said that we'll discover time travel in 2007, and then in 2015 we erm..get nuked. All major cities in the US, China, and Europe get nuked by Russia. After which, it'll go somewhat like Fallout except we grow back into a civilation(abliet, in 2036..). Normally,I'd dismiss this as a hoax. But already, two of his predictions are coming true. And if we do discover time travel in 2007, then I'm going to buy a fallout shelter and tons of food out in Kansas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Let's say Titor is from 2036 CE. Couple of questions to ask: How do you know this is his original message? It's the Internet we're talking about. How do we know it hasn't been edited just a little like urban legends, with fallacies being cut out and new facts pasted in to make it seem plausible? The US Armed Forces are stretched extremely thin over 120 countries. Most of their forces are in Afghanistan and Iraq, I believe. Do you think they really plan a civil war at a time when their army is stretched that damn thin? The USA is not getting less democratic and free, it's becoming more democratic and free. Or are you really saying that the society of the 50's, where women and Africans were not allowed to vote and whoever demonstrated against it was sprayed with fire hoses or beaten up by armed police, was a more democratic society than 2003's? Come on... Sure, people read our e-mails. But come on, mail has always been read by people it's not supposed to be read by. You send post cards, right? Post cards are virtually sheets of paper. You can fish one out of a mailbox that you don't even have to hack into. And once you fish it out, it's far from the encrypted jamble that today's e-mails are. Likewise with the people at the postal office and the guys delivering mail. And these same people at postal offices have the right to open envelopes if they deem it necessary. We're giving up rights for security. But guess what? It's always been that way. More importantly: If this guy really was from the future, where is the evidence that he's from 30 years ahead? If I was going back to, say, 1850, I'd bring a good deal of futuristic items like a calculator with me to prove that I was from the future. If I went to 2000, I'd predict the SARS epidemic and the 11th September attack. If he really went back to 2000, he'd want us to start preparing in 2000. Then why isn't he presenting other "evidence" than what's happening in 2007? Wouldn't it be more logical to give the examples I gave, and more? Furthermore, the text is full of "it's unknown when/where this happened". Why? If I went to the past with evidence of 9/11, I'd jot down the exact spot flight 93 crashed; the hallway the plane that hit the Pentagon flew into; the exact time when the first tower collapsed; The exact flight numbers of the flights and the names of all the passengers, and so on. I'd also bring solid evidence like a sample of the SARS virus. Things it'd be nearly impossible to estimate or replicate or produce without witnessing the event and/or studying it after it happened. To put it this way, he would have proved it and it wouldn't have taken three years for me to hear about him. It occures to me that what I've read in a book on UFO's (UFOs for Dummies, I think it was) is pretty much true: What these stories have in common is that they are loaded down with moral messages. Two of them in this particular ones are: -Vegetarianism is good -The government is evil In fact, everything from fables to folk tales to religion and UFO abduction stories do this. The message is often the exact opposite thing as a majority/minority wants, like our fears multiplied by 10,000. And the only way we can prevent it is to take our ideals and multiply them with 10,000. Sure, being a carnivore is bad. But did you know it will destroy humanity? Sure, we're having some rights impaired. But did you know it'll lead to a civil war? Sure, Russia's an enigma and Putin's slightly weird.. but did you know Russia's planning to start a nuclear war?! Sure, being a vegetarian is healthy, but it's also humanity's only hope... and so on and so fourth... It's like a teen group wanting a World War II movie with the Winter War in it and someone goes off and makes that movie. If this guy really was from the future, why is he resorting to Internet forums and chat groups to get attention? Surely a time traveller could walk right into the White House or some NATO or Canadian Capitol and get all the attention he needed by showing them a <insert futuristic invention here>. If his message is so important (and if it was true, it'd be hot as pie, I admit as much), why is he resorting to the Web. The "nobody's going to believe me" just does not hold true, because if he really is from the future, he'd bring evidence. Sending messages from the future by e-mail to the Internet is like me knowing that someone's planning to break into your house, but instead of calling you and the police, I e-mail some random stranger two blocks away and tells him to "spread the word". Evidence? Nope. Just an e-mail going "hey, someone's going to break into Rasberry Hill 2910 in four days. Tell all your immediate friends and maybe we'll be able to prevent it by eventually telling someone who knows Tyrion". Likely? This is nothing but another conspiracy web site. Sleep thight, friend, we're safe (relatively.. even if ). As the web site says (I'm not even bothering to read it, but I skimmed trough a few paragraphs) says: It's a world full of scammers. From rumors about the Pentagon being hit by a truck bomb and the third airplane that supposedly hit it is still unaccounted for to the Rosswell story: They're all plausible, but in the end they're nothing but bedtime stories for me. I hope I have convinced you, and, if I have, that you're not too embarrased. Love, Eagle. PS: Cool story, though:), and a nice name for him ("Titor"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 ... ... ... ... ...Tyrion... ... ... ... ...Tyrion... ... ...the guy is quiet clearly insane. He said he's a time traveler. Can you say 'Terminator'? Thats right. This guy needs to lay off the crack and Terminator movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 Originally posted by MydnightPsion ... ... ... ... ...Tyrion... ... ... ... ...Tyrion... ... ...the guy is quiet clearly insane. He said he's a time traveler. Can you say 'Terminator'? Thats right. This guy needs to lay off the crack and Terminator movies. Yeah, but right now anything seems possible. *shrugs* Dont want to be too ignorant against certain things. Besides, there are alot of different novels and movies about time travel. Time Machine for one. Although that deals more with the social structure of the new races, rather than time itself. And Dagobahn Eagle, great post. But, of course, I must rebute some of them. 1. Yeah, that's true. They did get a copy-right thing for it, but it's probably just bull. 2. Police and swat, my friend. Plus they still have the coast guard(at least here). Titor did say it was going to start from 2004 or 2005 to 2015. So the war could start out small. 3. Patriot act. Allows the government to give us superficial security for freedom and privacy instead. I agree with the more democracy, however. Although we arent really losing freedom, I guess, as much as privacy. Plus the patriot act allows the government to go into our house without a warrant( and can even arrest you without a TRIAL). 4. This is the real part where he lacks. There is a part on his website that has pictures of his "time machine" and such, but they're such low-quality that it could easily be a mock-up. 5. He's probably just feeding off on our fears. Still, if it IS true that he said all of this in 2000... 6. He said that the main reason he was sent back in time was to get the 5100 from IBM. Since the network or something they use in 2036 uses Unix, and Unix expires in 2038. And that the 5100 can convert the Unix stuff. It sounds like bull, though. You'd think they'd make him try and get the 5100 with the least bit suspicion. He also said that he wanted the world to be nuked.Apparently a post-appocolytpic world with heavy envionmental damage(I think about 20 nukes must've been denoted to destroy the major cities around the world, thus meaning a nuclear winter at the very least)wont matter since the government will be gone. Aparently he doesnt mind others to prep up for the upcoming holocaust. And no, Dagobahn Eagle, I am not embarrased. Sure, horribly mentally scared. Sure, will probably have the ego of a rat. But no, I'm not embarrased. Since that's what the Senate is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 2. Police and swat, my friend. Plus they still have the coast guard(at least here). Titor did say it was going to start from 2004 or 2005 to 2015. So the war could start out small. 3. Patriot act. Allows the government to give us superficial security for freedom and privacy instead. I agree with the more democracy, however. Although we arent really losing freedom, I guess, as much as privacy. Plus the patriot act allows the government to go into our house without a warrant( and can even arrest you without a TRIAL). Good points. But the US and the world have seen worse. 4. This is the real part where he lacks. There is a part on his website that has pictures of his "time machine" and such, but they're such low-quality that it could easily be a mock-up. Most sites like that are that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 "He, I know—for the question had been discussed among us long before the Time Machine was made—thought but cheerlessly of the Advancement of Mankind, and saw in the growing pile of civilization only a foolish heaping that must inevitably fall back upon and destroy its makers in the end. If that is so, it remains for us to live as though it were not so. But to me the future is still black and blank—is a vast ignorance..." The Time Machine by H. G. Wells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 ...the guy is quiet clearly insane. He said he's a time traveler. Can you say 'Terminator'? Thats right. This guy needs to lay off the crack and Terminator movies. I think he's doing it more for the attention than because of some sort of brain malfunction. He's gone trough a lot of work to get his work to seem real, and I'll give him credit for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle I think he's doing it more for the attention than because of some sort of brain malfunction. He's gone trough a lot of work to get his work to seem real, and I'll give him credit for that. Thats a very good point. I've seen people do worse for attention. Of course, I whipped eggs at the poor bastard*he said that the post office was housing a nuclear weapon and he had clearly edited to have postmen in front of Little Man, pretty sad, no?* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Hello all..... long time no post. I awaken from my slumber of silence, because I had a vision of the post at the top of the thread and woke up laughing. I have often thought to myself. "If time travel would ever be possible, if there was time travelers amongst us." That would be interesting. If this guy was really a time traveler why would he say anything about future events and why would he put himself in a time right before all the world goes to hell..? Well he might be trying to prevent what happened. Given that could you even hope to? Nobody in power would believe him. Most of the general public wouldn't ether. So someone from the a future with all this knowledge would already know this. Isn't there some excepted rule in "Sci-Fi" not to contaminate the past. It wouldn't effect his future, because he states himself that each choice brings on a hole new universe.."I'm feeling kind of cramped already." I don't think time travel is a few years off if even possible. For that matter I don't think it's possible. Fun idea to right books and movies about, but isn't going to happen. In my opinion the guy is ether attention seeking or needs to be admitted to the hospital I work at for some observation. He has been watching the Terminator movies way to much. I think his story is to the verge of breaking international copyright laws. NOCK.... NOCK.... "John Titor.......Who is there?" "LAWYER...............Mr. John Titor?" "John Titor............Yes? "LAWYER..............You are here by been summoned to court for breaking international copyright laws." "John Titor............What by who?" "LAWYER..............Mr. James Cameron... Have a nice day." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Writer Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 If he talked in 2000, why didn't he warn us about 9/11/01? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 My sentiments exactly, Jedi. Not only 9/11, knowing beforehand about the soon-to-be-announced North Korean atomic program, SARS Epidemic, and, say Bali bombing would have increased his credit greatly. But then again, if someone really did post all the details on 9/11 (including flight numbers, crash coordinates, etc.), would I believe he was a time traveller after 9/11? If I say "I'm from 2049 here to save you from this and that. On October 9th, terrorists will plant a bomb outside of the Capitol building, which will go off when Bush's motorcade drives by, killing Bush. This will happen at 6:32 exactly. 23 other people are going to die (then all these other details that you couldn't know about beforehand)." Would you believe me on October 8th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Writer Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Good point, Eagle. A person traveling back to tell them about something like that would most likely be dismissed as somebody who needed to be in a mental institution. In that case, why did John Titor come back in the first place. Did he really think that he could get his message past the skepticism? Where is John now? Did he travel back to his own time or is he still here? When he realizes that his message won't be accepted, what is he going to do, take somebody forward in time with him? If that's the case, how many people will believe the person from the current time who went forward? I honestly doubt even he would be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Well apparently SOMEONE believed him or they wouldn't have posted it on that site. So, if thats the case, they BOTH belong in a looney bin. Again, I think John Titor has been watching too many Terminator movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 well first, I could say I'm from the future and something is going to happen. I go and make sure that thing happens at that point in time, thus making me sound credible. or also think about it this way. America would hear him talk about the 9/11 attacks and arrest him on terroristic threat charges and such i don't think he'd want that. Also I don't think he's from the future first off because in order to keep his future the same he can't interact with us, nor can he do anything to effect us. People bring up that quote of that time travel doesn't and won't exist because we haven't met anyone that's time traveled. well possibly because they make sure to avoid contact and changing of the future by interaction. you realize that just one thing they do could effect the outcome of the future. I'll let you all sit on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 America would hear him talk about the 9/11 attacks and arrest him on terroristic threat charges and such i don't think he'd want that. I mentioned several other examples: SARS was one of them. In that case, why did John Titor come back in the first place. Did he really think that he could get his message past the skepticism? He said he went to get a computer from the 70's to convert files from Linux or something like that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Writer Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Found a hole in his story: Microsingularities (mini black holes) will be created soon at a particle collider, and physicists will eventually learn how to build time machines using two of them at a time. It is already expected by some physicists that particle energies will be high enough to create microsingularities at CERN's Large Hadron Collider when it begins operation in 2007, but Mr. Titor did not say exactly where and when they would be discovered. The Titor-specific part of this prediction is that microsingularities can and will be used to build time-travel machines. If this begins in 2007, how could he possibly get back to 2036, as the web site claims he has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homuncul Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Normally,I'd dismiss this as a hoax. But already, two of his predictions are coming true. And if we do discover time travel in 2007, then I'm going to buy a fallout shelter and tons of food out in Kansas. Mom, where's my nuke again? *goes to get his nuke out of a closet* Here you are my baby, thought I forgot about you? Are you still ready to serve your country.... good girl have a cup of plutonium and warm yourself, we're on schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datheus Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hmm, but are things like the Bali and WTC bomings that significant? Titor said himself that he came back to a time not exactly like his. 3000 lives may very well be within the error precentage of time travel. After all, look at what he's predicting. He's predicting things like nuclear wars and the near destruction of the entire United States, not just the destruction of one building... Perhaps his original world was a place without the WTC and Bali bombings. However, for something as delicate as time travel to be discovered and to send a man back so soon... Well, with infinite universes, it would seem that there is a high chance that he went to the wrong time. Not only that, but if he was on mission, what good what that mission be if he could never return to HQ? But at the same time, many of his claims do seem to be coming to pass. Russia is currently having trouble with the arrest of their richest man, Americans are losing civil liberties--albeit ones they never really had. The idea of nuclear holocaust in the next two decades does not seem that far-fetched in my mind... But neither is peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homuncul Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 However, for something as delicate as time travel to be discovered and to send a man back so soon... Well, with infinite universes, it would seem that there is a high chance that he went to the wrong time. Not only that, but if he was on mission, what good what that mission be if he could never return to HQ? According to some quantum physicists, time travel without paradoxes is possible if the time multiverse is considered (paradoxes of time is a problem of interactivity in the classical universe, only noninteractive time travel is possible there without complication in principle). Assuming the multiverse of time and space the time machine would have to travel in the universe where time looks like the time it was trying to reach. Of course even if the travel is made between very closely related universes it is still uncertain to say that our past was just like in that universe. Dispite my believing in total absurdity of Titor as a time traveller, it's still an important point about the "wrong time", but I would prefer to call it even simplier "wrong universe". From that point of view it doesn't matter whether he's a true time traveler, it's just there is no way to tell that his predictions will continue to be correct even if 99 percent of what he said would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Tyrion origanlly said, "Normally,I'd dismiss this as a hoax. But already, two of his predictions are coming true." Hmmm. 2? How many of his preditctions didn't come true.... I ponder. Remember even a clock that doesn't run is right 2 times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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