Rockstar Posted September 29, 2003 Author Share Posted September 29, 2003 thanks for voting guys! its pretty close! with lotsa valid arguements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrobot Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 I admit (and have before) that I don't know much about how you play the game. I was just pointing out that Raven seemed to be pretty sure about not having kick in the game. (And when I said the thing about some developers being better than most players playing their game, I had John Romero in mind) If you just want a mod that adds kicks (and changes anything else you want) that's completely fine with me. I can't think of any reason why Raven wouldn't release the SDK for JA like they did for JKII (especially since they seem to have gone to a lot of trouble to make JA as editable as possible). It'll probably be two or three weeks or so before it gets released, though (that's about how long it took for JKII's tools to be released...I can't remember exactly though...they didn't release all the stuff at first). It might be sooner, however, since JA went gold sooner than JKII did, and they should've had more time to work on the editing tools before the release of the game. Anyway, I can see this dispute getting peacefully resolved if you can just make a mod that suits the way you prefer to play. I just don't want an official patch that might spoil JA for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed I really do not try to come off as arrogant, both here and in game. I guess you don't have to try. It seems to come naturally. Originally posted by FK | unnamed Look guy, you admitted you have very little knowledge of in-depth game play mechanics and have very little skill when it comes to multi player, please don't slap labels on people you don't even know. Some of you are whining. You got called on it. If you want to now associate yourself with the whiners (after all, you are acting like I called you one even though I did not call you one) then that's fine with me. I don't care if JA came out with ONE LINE OF CODE DIFFERENT THAN JO! Demanding a patch within one week of game release is whining! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Behave, I'm being civil. If you start in with the talk show rants I'm going to be less than civil myself. Personally I don’t care if you find my comments as arrogant, I have more knowledge of this game and it’s predecessors game play mechanics and dynamics than you could ever hope to. I built a reputation for myself in the many competitive circles based solely on my knowledge of how things work and the best ways to implement them, the opinions of game play mechanics from some random forum poster mean nothing to me (unless they are well informed from in-depth experience in said game type) so please don’t flatter yourself in thinking they do. Our goal is not to argue with the many newbies and star wars geeks of this community, it’s to point out specific problems to the devs in our game types. And you have no solutions to this problem, you do not play this game type, and your are self admittedly not even good in general at this game. Please to not add anything unless it leads to a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrobot Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed Behave, I'm being civil. If you start in with the talk show rants I'm going to be less than civil myself. Personally I don’t care if you find my comments as arrogant, I have more knowledge of this game and it’s predecessors game play mechanics and dynamics than you could ever hope to. I built a reputation for myself in the many competitive circles based solely on my knowledge of how things work and the best ways to implement them, the opinions (of game play mechanics) of some random forum poster mean nothing to me so please don’t flatter yourself in thinking they do. Our goal is not to argue with the many newbies and star wars geeks of this community, it’s to point out specific problems to the devs in our game types. And you have no solutions to this problem, you do not play this game type, and you self admittedly are not even good in general at this game. Please to not add anything unless it leads to a solution. I tried to be somewhat diplomatic in my last post, but this post of yours is completely outrageous...you should have taken Blankie's advice before it was too late. Your knowledge of the complete game mechanics only matters for people like yourself who have that knowledge. That knowledge comes from time devoted to the game that the vast majority of people can't because they have a life outside of game tournaments. To the vast majority of the people who bought and are playing the game, JA is fine. These are the people Raven had in mind when they made JA. The gameplay may not hold up when you know every single little detail, but it's not a problem which the majority of the people have. Look at the poll in this thread, for instance...there are only three more votes in favor of adding kick. Considering that the people who want kick in JA are people like yourself who are obscenely obsessed with playing games, and who most likely found this forum and this thread because they found a problem with kick not being in JA, and that the people who didn't find a problem aren't going to really have a reason to come here since they are perfectly happy with JA the way it is, there really aren't that many people who are in favor of adding kick. I have never seen you post any proof to show anything contrary to what I have just said, and I see no reason to think otherwise until you can tell me why people like you are in the majority. Just because you are better than anyone else in JA you seem to think you can make decisions for everyone who plays JA. Well, as I've said above, most people aren't as obsessed with the game as you are, and have no problems with the game dynamics! You also don't seem to get that most people don't give a **** about saber only JA MP played by sadly obsessed individuals...Raven obviously didn't consider it important enough, since they took out kick which seems to have rendered the way you play JA, useless. Saber only is not a gametype...it's an option. You can turn off sabers, but that doesn't mean it's something that Raven focused on. On the contrary, Raven seems to have concentrated on all the parts of JA...if you insist on making gameplay changes so that you can play your stupid "elite" tournaments, then make a mod! Stop giving us this bull**** about how you're better than everyone else, so no one else’s opinions matter! The gameplay was not designed for people who waste their time figuring out every small detail in a games gameplay! The people who don't have super skills don't have a problem with JA's gameplay, and I don't see why that's a problem. The game was made for people to have fun...most people are having fun. They're playing the game without turning things like guns off...the way Raven designed it. (And because they don't have super skills, they don't have a problem with not having kicks in the game.) I have ceased to have any respect for you after you made that arrogant post. I am not trying to flame you, I am trying to get the point across that maybe JA was not designed specifically for you, and that you really aren't in a position to talk about changes to a game that's meant to be played by people who don't devote themselves to computer games. You aren't a mediocre player, so how can you make decisions about gameplay that might affect these people, who happen to be in the majority? You don't have a slow 56k connection, so how can you make desicions about gameplay that might affect these people? It's one thing to bring something about the gameplay to Raven's attention...it's quite another to insist that certain gameplay changes be made and constantly hound Raven until they make a patch which makes those changes. [Edit: And don't use that "you're an honor newbie" thing again...they are even further out in thinking they can force they're way of playing on people then you are. They fall into the category of "sadly obsessed"] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jello123 Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 sayin you have majority on this poll is like saying lucasforums only has 60 members and that everyone in the world of jk2 is registered here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow_Nest Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 I voted yes. I like the JO kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 all I hear is "blah blah blah I know I suck but boy am I happy this game got nerfed all to hell because now I can mash buttons like a retard and I feel just like episode 2 darth maul and man that sure makes me a happy little star wars nerd". (not you crow_nest, I was talking to the random newbie above). /edit Heh, I just noticed I can put people on an ignore list here. Sorry guys, you had your chance but could not add anything productive to the discussion, so to the list you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed Heh, I just noticed I can put people on an ignore list here. Sorry guys, you had your chance but could not add anything productive to the discussion, so to the list you go. You likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 You should have thought about that (ignore) a long time ago! Think of all the time & forum space you've wasted By the way - What I find somewhat odd is that people who only play sp or exclusively duel against bots or don't even have the game yet feel it's their mission to make sure ctf- and ff duel players won't be getting an OPTION that would make their game worth playing again. If CTF people want kick back, why not allow them have it as an option? Because you're afraid someone might use that option on their FFA-server and swiftkick you in your face? I'm tempted to say: if you don't like it, find another server Options are always good. As long as these options are open to everyone (in other words: damn you who screwed up JO with your retarded admin mods!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 yes indeed sir, a cvar is all we ask... g_enablekick 1/0 g_disablegripnerf 1/0 g_forcecostforspecials 1/0 Oh nooooezzzzz people will enable kicks on some servers and I will die!!!!! not movie like, not movie like! NOT MOVIE LIKE!!!! let's band together doodz so they can't lame us with their gay kick whoring!!!! btw, look at the poll again. not movie like!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed yes indeed sir, a cvar is all we ask... g_enablekick 1/0 g_disablegripnerf 1/0 g_forcecostforspecials 1/0 Hey OldSchool. You are breaking my heart. I saw those cvars and actually got excited for a sec. Are these wishful thinking on your part or do you (as usual) know something I don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 lol griff... ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by Gabrobot Due to lag, there was no reliable way for a 56k player to counter kick. (I got pretty good at kicking in bot matches, but when I played against actually people, I couldn't kick much since there's about a second of delay time...I certainly couldn't do anything in the time where I saw someone was going to kick me, and the time the kick would reach me...even if the kick doesn't actually hit me, it'll still hit me because of the lag.) i play on 56k. ask UJ if i'm a pushover in a kick fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by Gabrobot Hmmm...obviously you don't know about game testing...I've gotten very good at JKII SP just because I have to test my level so much. I'm sure there must be at least two or three Raven developers who are at least as good as you (and most likely better, since they know what they put in the game). sorry, but no. not to mention live opponents are totally different than bots that have set patterns they go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 There is a kick in JA, and this time its a fair ligitimate move. Anyways I'm happy with the game as it is, and thats how I think it should be kept. Oh well, I cant have everything now, can I? -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by Rumor i play on 56k. ask UJ if i'm a pushover in a kick fight. nope. He kicks as good as anyone on cable/dsl. I had some matches in JO that were on U.K. and German servers where I pinged at 200-300 (I'm in Texas) and I still beat my opponents who had 50-70 pings. I'm not saying it was easy and the high ping sure as hell limited my game plan, but you can adjust and still win if you practice and develop a way around the latency issue (see below for an example). Not to mention a high ping *can give you an advantage in some cases. Grip+kicks are the perfect example. If I had a ping of say, 70, I would much rather fight a guy who had a 0 ping than a guy who had a 250 ping if he used grip+kicks a lot. Being able to "lock on" with your crosshair was hard as hell because he (the 250 ping guy) would "warp" all over the place, and hence his grip+kicks were hard as hell to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by Clemme w/Stick There is a kick in JA, and this time its a fair ligitimate move. As opposed to the prior version of kick that many of us had 0 problem countering yet the people who never took the time to study it (you?) could not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed nope. He kicks as good as anyone on cable/dsl. I had some matches in JO that were on U.K. and German servers where I pinged at 200-300 (I'm in Texas) and I still beat my opponents who had 50-70 pings. I'm not saying it was easy and the high ping sure as hell limited my game plan, but you can adjust and still win if you practice and develop a way around the latency issue (see below for an example). Not to mention a high ping *can give you an advantage in some cases. Grip+kicks are the perfect example. If I had a ping of say, 70, I would much rather fight a guy who had a 0 ping than a guy who had a 250 ping if he used grip+kicks a lot. Being able to "lock on" with your crosshair was hard as hell because he (the 250 ping guy) would "warp" all over the place, and hence his grip+kicks were hard as hell to break. heh everytime i play someone that knows me they have a finger dedicated to the push button for when i gk. i can't remember my good entry witch makes it even harder =/ and 56k players just have to adapt. i played a 2v2 scrim with pyro and ancient and you shoulda heard anc whine like a girl when i would kick him off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethsaint Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I voted "don't care" If people wanna' use kick like the ones in JO be my guest. I've always kept clear of Duel servers with kicks allowed and FFA etc. games since I found there was nothing more frustrating than joining a server just to be kickwhored to death instead of having a fun and exciting duel/fight. Basically a serverside cvar or an option to include them would be fine - as long as it would show up on the serverlist/serverdetails so people could steer clear of them without having to join the server first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardent Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 actually i'd like cvar for g_kickdamage too, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by Ardent actually i'd like cvar for g_kickdamage too, but that's just me. that was done in the jk2 admin mods I think. I never had a problem with it, even when I played on servers where kicks did 0 damage. I would not mind a cvar like that in base JA either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornes Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Ardent actually i'd like cvar for g_kickdamage too, but that's just me. I agree with Ardent here. I also think that there should be a limit to how many kicks you can do also. For example, most CTF s/o people only needed one kick to knock you off a ledge. No damage was needed for that either. This way, in things like duels, kick would be used only for knocking someone down. Even though this could also be countered by the new jumping up kicks, rolls, fast get up thingies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSSiphilus Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I only ever really used kick in duels or matches, its great for when you dont have time to jump out of the way of an attack. Just jump and flip off the guys face to avoid a swing, I used that quiet regularily in duels where it caused no damage. The damage it did in FFA's was just an added bonus! With the way the gameplay is in JKA I think it would be harder to spam kick and pull kick. I give kick in jka 2 thumbs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Personally I wouldn't mind seeing kicks re-introduced into the game. I just don't think it should be a copy of how it's in JO. Many of the suggestions by the pro-kickers sound really good. Since the poll asked about re-introducing kick AS IN JO, I said no. If the poll had been worded differently I would've answered differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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