razorace Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Ok, it's been over a month since the release of the game and we still haven't gotten a patch or the SDK. This is starting to tick me off. Max Payne 2 and most other mainstream titles are receiving immediate patches for game problems and modder support. We deserve the same sort of treatment. While I understand the tricky nature of the internal politics involved with a Star Wars game, it should not prevent Raven from properly supporting the product. We need some support and we need it soon. Leaving major bugs like the in-game browser mess and the dynamic glow slowdowns is going to hurt current and future sales. I know my future support of any Raven or LucasArt products are in doubt due to this trail of broken promises and a general lack of support. And I'm saying this as a hardcore LucasArts gamer and JK2/JKA modder. I suggest that everyone that agrees with me tries to contact both Raven and LEC and inform them of our unhappiness. Raven's general email address is www@ravensoft.com. LucasArt's general email address seems to be webjedi@lucasarts.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaya Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Max Payne 2 and most other mainstream titles are receiving immediate patches for game problems and modder support. I agree that there should be a patch for JA. But asking for immediate patches is not the solution. From my experience immediate patches mean only one thing: the game was sold to early, it contains lots of bugs that are easy to fix but werent because the CDs were already pressed. This isn't positive at all but the very opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediLurker Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Any prospective patch is in LucasArts' hands. Raven has already unofficially acknowledged that problems exist, but if LucasArts says no patch, there won't be a patch. Even if there is one, LucasArts decides when it comes, so emailing complaints to Raven isn't going to do much good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 how much time did it take for the JO SDK to get out ? (of course im talking about the mp code) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by JediLurker Any prospective patch is in LucasArts' hands. Raven has already unofficially acknowledged that problems exist, but if LucasArts says no patch, there won't be a patch. Even if there is one, LucasArts decides when it comes, so emailing complaints to Raven isn't going to do much good. Indeed. As far as I know Raven has no control over decisions for patching or releasing development tools. This is entirely un Lucasarts hands. I don't think too much blame can be directed at Raven. That being said. The in-game browser is a huge issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Prime Indeed. As far as I know Raven has no control over decisions for patching or releasing development tools. This is entirely un Lucasarts hands. I don't think too much blame can be directed at Raven. That being said. The in-game browser is a huge issue... I very much agree. It is nice seeing the All Seeing Eye, QTracker and the like, but with JKII the browser was all I ever used. It is a significant factor that may make some people think there are many fewer games available than there actually are. They are doing a dis-service by not patching that right away. Leave the rest (don't mess with my dynamic glow, thanks very much) to politics and in-fighting ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sokar Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 razorace, Here is a thread with an open letter to Raven/Lucasarts I wrote just before I noticed your thread. It pretty much sums up everything regarding this unbelievable problem. It probably sounds angry, but I am DAMN pissed off about this. I've pissed away a Ben Franklin on this crap and I'm done with Raven. http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115817 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 Lord Sokar, I suggest you email or mail that to Raven and LucasArts. They don't really read this forum. Raven have an ethical obligation to do quality work regardless of the contact. If LucasArts isn't going to allow a reasonable level of patches (or let they fix the game before release), they shouldn't have signed on with LucasArts. If you created buggy software, you created buggy software regardless of any contact crap. If LucasArts is in 100% control of releasing the mod information, why did they allow the unorganized trickle of modding data that we're getting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialForces Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 It costs money to make patches so i think its no BIG DEAL that they are waiting to fix more bugs in one patch... And its not like you push a button and its fixed it takes time. CALM THE **** DOWN.... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I suggest you divert your attention fully to LEC first, due to the fact that they are the holders of the license, and thus they have say over if things such as the source code or patches are released. Raven is willing to help, it's LEC that needs to get their **** together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialForces Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by SpecialForces It costs money to make patches so i think its no BIG DEAL that they are waiting to fix more bugs in one patch... And its not like you push a button and its fixed it takes time. CALM THE **** DOWN.... lol Actually, there I disagree a bit. This has been known for a month, apparently the code has been done for a while. LEC should accept a multi-patch future, and should have patched the MP browser (technical issue) right away. Other stuff (gameplay and such) could wait. Heck, they patched Halo twice within a week and they're not done yet ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by SpecialForces It costs money to make patches so i think its no BIG DEAL that they are waiting to fix more bugs in one patch... And its not like you push a button and its fixed it takes time. CALM THE **** DOWN.... lol It only costs money to create patches if you do the work on company time. Besides, this isn't really addition work, this is work to get the game to release level status. If LucasArts/Raven is claiming that the holdup is due to QA testing, that's a joke. They would had gotten all these bugs in the betatesting phase if they had done some real QA testing in the first place. These aren't minor bugs we're talking about. We have at least two major bugs: the ingame browser issue and the major slowdowns caused by dynamic glow. Both of these have been left hanging for over a month now and Raven had the game "completed" since July. They should have had these issues fixed at release time. It's only pissing fans off and hurting sales now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialForces Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 We lived with it when we played jk2 didnt we? Yea bitch at them... but dont expect it to matter..... but it will make you feel better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iblis Reborn Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 what would be so wrong about releasing a fix for just the ingame browser for now? they know how to fix it they just said they were waiting for a patch to put it in....but why?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by SpecialForces We lived with it when we played jk2 didnt we? Yea bitch at them... but dont expect it to matter..... but it will make you feel better These bugs weren't in JK2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartaZx Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by SpecialForces We lived with it when we played jk2 didnt we? Yea bitch at them... but dont expect it to matter..... but it will make you feel better What the hell are you talking about. Jk2 didnt have these bugs and it's bloody obvious jk3 needs a patch to fix the major bugs and to get the SDK out for the communities to fix the gameplay issues because they (LA) obviously arent going to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by Rad Blackrose I suggest you divert your attention fully to LEC first, due to the fact that they are the holders of the license, and thus they have say over if things such as the source code or patches are released. Raven is willing to help, it's LEC that needs to get their **** together. Damn right, I totally agree. Raven has, for most all the problems, a fix! They are just waiting on LEC to let them release it. I'm not sure how LEC operates, but it might have to do with how the President just resigned without reason, so that could be causing some choas, needing products in general to be put on a back burner. Still, though, they have always neglected the community, apparently they think it isn't worth their time or money. For such greedy moneymongerers, I'm really suprised that they don't see how such major issues hurt the sales of the game. Balance issues? Single saber too weak? Hah, mostly everyone doesn't care about that crap. It's only people like us that do, that isn't going to hurt sales. What will hurt sales is stuff like the dynamic glow and server issues. If a customer is torn between JA and another game, they'll probably pick the other game if they know JA is buggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by Tsaya I agree that there should be a patch for JA. But asking for immediate patches is not the solution. From my experience immediate patches mean only one thing: the game was sold to early, it contains lots of bugs that are easy to fix but werent because the CDs were already pressed. This isn't positive at all but the very opposite. EARTH TO TSAYA ITS BEEN A MONTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g//anarki Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by Rumor EARTH TO TSAYA ITS BEEN A MONTH. lol everyone's jumping on the Spider Al bandwagon headed for the land where 3 months is the minimum for a non pre-mature patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butt_Whisper Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 EA games did the same thing for BF 1942. I know they have come out with a series of patches ( i have not played for a LONG time), but when it was first released, there was stuff that should have been addressed during beta testing, and definately fixed before putting it on the shelves; and it pissed many peeps off. I would rather wait for a patch that fixed many problems, but they should fix the ingame browser soon, because I would say it has driven people away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrD0min0 Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 This game has what I like to call "Tribes 2 - Syndrome" in that they tried to cater to that extremely vocal minority who liked to whine a lot about the hallmark previous installment. I remember playing JO the first day at a LAN for 8 hours straight. None of us new what the hell we were doing, but I'll be damned if it wasn't fun. For the record I do really enjoy JA. It disappointed me in some areas, the movement physics are a little wacky, but I'd say it was worth my time. I think it would have been nice if there was a server menu with an advanced option that listed all those lovely cvars so people would have an easier time playing with the juju. I would like to see MP take on some of the same dynamics that SP has. But again people, you have to remember that Raven has been pushing the mod community for this game from the beginning. They have simply given us the mold from which to begin. I have very little doubt that once the SDK is out there that we will not be deprived of our preferences for this game, regardless of how arcane and cryptic they may be. It's just that Lucasarts has Raven by the balls now. Frankly I don't blame them for not screaming at the guy who has an icy death grip on your johnson. And jesus people, stop comparing JA to Halo. Halo was patched right away because it ran like ass on high end systems out of the box and had no CD check on the base install. Besides, Halo does not and never has done anything revolutionary other than bring Xbox owners a reason to use they're systems. JO and JA are noteworthy in the very least because they breathe a life into one of our favorite sci-fi universes that no other title can come close to. Just have a little faith and a little patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 Here's the email I sent to Raven and LucasArts. Dear Raven/LucasArts, I've been a long time Raven and LucasArts fan dating back to the earliest days of both companies and own many of your collective products including Strike Fleet, Manic Mansion, Hexen, and Heretic. However, my future support of Raven and LucasArts products is in doubt. I'm very displeased with the general lack of support for Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (JKA) I plunked down $50 dollars for the game based on getting a finished/quality game and reasonable level of company support for the game and the ability to mod it. I have gotten none of the above While it's obvious that there's a very enjoyable game hidden in JKA, the game doesn't feel like it was given any real time in the beta phase before release. I'll name several issues with the game: - The ingame browser is broken. Only about 15-30 of the 500+ JKA servers are showing for ANYONE. I don't even get ANY servers unless I toggle the server game filter from All to Jedi Academy and back whenever I refresh my server list. When servers (that honest people like myself pay for) aren't seen by the majority of the game's players, the server admins will eventually admit defeat and shut down their servers. - Several game features cause an unreasonable amount of slowdown vs. Jedi Knight 2. Joystick Force feedback is turned on by default and causes a significant frames per second (fps) drop. Dynamic Glow also causes a similar drop. - The Multiplayer (MP) bots are very substandard. The bots will run half away across the map even when you're in plain sight and very close by. The bots jam up on elevators nearly every time on most of the maps. The bots often suicide into a death pit by moving towards you when attempting a complicated jump or fall. Most of this behavior appears to be the result of very poor bot waypoint placement on the MP maps and a lack of some simple fixes to the bot AI. - At least one of the single player (SP) animations was broken. I was able to find this bug within minutes of starting to playing the JKA demo. While it is understandable that major bugs can and do slip by QA departments, it's expected that these major issues will be fixed with patches in a reasonable time period. JKA has been out for over a month and there is still no patch for the game. We have been given some vague statements from individuals at Raven about a patch that is suppose to be in the works, but we haven't gotten much information about this and no clue when this patch can be expected. Max Payne 2 and several other competing games have had patches within the first week of release. Leaving major bugs unpatched for any period of time is going to hurt sales, especially in the upcoming holiday season. Secondly, there's the issue of no SDK or any real modding documentation. I'm a JKA modder and specifically purchased JKA in the hopes of modding it like I did for JK2. I created the semi-popular Masters of the Force mod and hope to create something more popular for JKA. Raven staff have repeatedly claimed in interviews that they created JKA to be more modder friendly than JK2 and that they want to provide more support to the modding community. It's evident from the game that the game does have more modder options. However, we have not been given the necessary tools (primarily the MP SDK) or real documentation to take advantage of most of what JKA has to offer. To be fair, a few Raven employees have been very helpful with specific questions, but this doesn't help the fact that we need the SDK to be able to do much more than add new maps, vehicles, and hilts. Again, this will hurt current and future sales (including mine) if this is not remedied soon. Please do something about these issues immediately or I will be forced to take my entertainment dollars elsewhere in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaya Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by Rumor: EARTH TO TSAYA ITS BEEN A MONTH. If you weren't so fast flaming every post and trying to offend everyone you might notice that I quoted the expression "immediate patch" and was merely answering to razorrace. But posting answers instead of flames is a concept you don't understand, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Reminder to everyone: Don't flame people, debate, but leave out the insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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