SlapNut Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 acctually i have noticed something, i katad thig guy and he killed me with one strong stance hit and killed me with my full health, hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comm539 Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Putting my views on duel sabers and staffs being for button mashers aside, I think all saber combat needs to be pathed regarding hit deflection. In JO the boundary was quite clear: When you attack, your open to be attacked, when your not swinging, your basically safe (besides a downwards hack or a side swing followed by a second etc.). The JA physics appear unclear and almost random. You can be stood still and the single hit can take 50hp. Other times you can swing your saber, but the enemies swing at you hits but does no damage. The physics are unclear and tempermental. This is a major reason why JA s/o combat favours unskillful players; Theres nothing to learn, no skill atm. Combat can be won or lost randomly. Finally, saber staff/duel sabers have no combo limit. Your already at a disadvantage with single saber by being outnumbered with blades. But for some strange reason (more proof of copy and pasted code from JK2) single sabers have a combo limit and the others dont. Single should either do more dmage or the duel and staff should have a combo limit (ie. 3 swings). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 3 seems a little low, I think it should be equal to single saber medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comm539 Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 well 3 combo limit would be like 6 swings with staff with 2 sabers on each end. I definately think duel saber limit should be cut down, other wise you can just stand there and spam underneath the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Single sabers are just fine. Fast Stance has infinite chains (or if it's limited its a super high number, I didn't test it forever to see). Plus you get three katas, two of which have some forward movement with them. Plus with Strong stance you can knock people's sabers away. And yes, it IS possible to knock the fully ignited staff away onto the ground (only seen it happen ones.. and it was from a concussion rifle to the face, but it's probably possible to do it in duels as well). Just the other night I was playing Lightside with single saber (just had Fast and Medium... Saber Attack wasn't high enough for Strong) and I easily won the match with Kata spamming, lunges (with Fast), and back slashes (with Medium)... and this was against Dual and Saberstaff Darkside users. I'm not saying I'm a great player or anything, but if it's really so "n00b friendly" and single sabers are so useless I shouldn't have won by such a large margin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g//anarki Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Originally posted by noide JK3 got owned By a shock combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 And yes, it IS possible to knock the fully ignited staff away onto the ground I've had the staff knocked out of my hands in a duel three times, always by a single saberist. So I can confirm that it's possible. Putting my views on duel sabers and staffs being for button mashers aside As someone who has logged approximately 150 hours online using saberstaff exclusively, I have to say this is ridiculous. The only way a noob with a saberstaff can rack up lots of frags is if they're playing other noobs. No offense, but you obviously aren't a very good player. Sorry... couldn't resist that one. One of the many ways that the combos of the saberstaff are countered is with the fact that it autoblocks when not attacking about as well as a stick of butter. Plus the single saber allows one to move in any direction during the katas and specials, which is highly unpredictable - with saberstaff, every single special has a predestined course of movement that cannot be altered once the move is committed (except at two points along the butterfly), which is highly predictable and easy to exploit by someone with patience and timing. If I don't move out of the way when a Red Stance swings, it always breaks through my block and causes at least some damage - period. Theres nothing to learn, no skill atm. Combat can be won or lost randomly. The reason it's now possible for a random attack to work is because LA knows that a big part of the target audience for Jedi ACADEMY are kids between the ages of 8 and 15 who read the Jedi Academy young adult books, and they want them to be able to win sometimes too. But even with that, it's still the one with the most skill and better timing who comes out on top. The higher noise floor should simply be considered as a challenge to overcome. Your a JO master... should be a piece of cake for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 The main problems I see are this, these are problems from playing against good experienced players, as experienced as they come (JO, and JA since it was released): General comments for all sabers - I would like to see NO blocking when swinging, it makes it simpler and gives a big disadvantage to using red stance. The only thing that should stop a swing mid-attack is a saber lock IMHO. Saber damage should be vamped up a little. I think all blocking should be very good when you are not attacking. It would make the game seem more logical, and less random than it seems now. Single Saber (I use single saber) - Overall I think this has a very good balance, I think that other styles should be raised/lowered in power to meet this. Dual Sabers - These, although very easy for a newbie, are not good going one on one. They are pitiful in one on ones, only good move they have is the backstab, which basically is too powerful. It kills in one hit pretty much whereever it hits. I don't really know what to do to make it better, it seems to kill in single hits sometimes and then other times do about 5-10 damage per hit. They're just about useless in a duel. I've met about four people who are good with them, and they're not always good, not really due to them playing differently, but the duals just seem to do different damage every time. Staff - This has very well balanced katas, and most special moves. The butterfly does way too much damage I think, it does more damage than the darned kata, and costs 25 less force points. The single swings (slashes, left-right, top-bottom etc) are overpowered. They need to be toned down relative to the other sabers. They do almost as much damage as a red swing, but in less than half the time with unlimited chains. I've gone straight up against a staff user, and swung 3 reds, every one of them staying in their body almost the whole swing. He won. I didn't even get my third swing completely off, he killed me before it hit him. As a side note, I generally play in FFA's. I usually fight one opponent at a time (no, I don't sit around waiting for duels, I just fight, and go run around looking for someone else), sometimes it's a 3 way. I usually win, because there aren't very many skilled opponents out there that I see right now, I think most stayed with JO for some reason. Slowly I'm seeing more and more good people. Maybe it's just the servers I play in though... I play under the name aristeed, if you see me ask me to a duel, I love a good fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzerian Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 well id like to fill u in on something that happened to me last night i was playing a no force saber only server and some guy was killing everysingle person in one hit even from places far out of reach and everyone was saying he was doing a bug expliot then some guy was just standing in the middle of a room with his saber up so i thought what the hell ill just attack him so i changed to red stance and did 8 straight downward attacks right down the middle and a DFA untill he died then i went to fight the other guys with 100 shield and health and killed in 3 hits there is seriously something wrong here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comm539 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 ehm I never said the button mashers got kills. I just said that duel and staff are for button mashers. As is blue stance single. I've been beaten once by a staff, once by duel and quite a lot more by single. Hence the duel and staff are for button mashers running round screaming "dool me!!!11111oneonetwotwo" This is my view. Dont even bother arguing with me boy (/girl), I dont care what you think and you wont change my opinion >/ Because of the obvious blocking and damage flaws, few duellers bothered to go to JA. Even fewer ff duellers (as you can drain back health quicker than damaging). Dont get me wrong, the games promising, it just needs fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Well keep playing JK2 then. ; ) Just had to say it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I use single but i know duals and staff are not for buton smashers. You must have been playing for too long with noobs to make those asumptions. The game is perfectly balanced. I have tested all the crap u all were saying about MP when the game was released and its absolutely false. I could notice also that the people that complained about gameplay are mostly second class noobs that dont realize their reality (first class noobs are the ones on their way to padawan). I must say that single saber is the best, till i am proven wrong (in the game, not in words). The only things that suck in the game are bugs and the fact that every server have a diferent settings like saber damage scale, force regen time and also they disable some powers like lightning, mindtrick, saber throw, etc. I just dont join servers with increased saber damage, the reason? the same i dont download mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Misery Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I've been playing JA MP non-stop since the release and the only things that, in my opinion, need to be fixed in a patch are: 1.) The Master Server bug for the in-game browser. 2.) The sound clipping that is present in large-scale fights (10+ players). 3.) The netcode (needs to be tightened or adjusted a bit; the Ghoul2 hit detection seems a little too ping-dependant). As far as the saber combat itself, I say leave it the way it is. The 3 saber types are very well balanced. What I'm seeing on the JA servers now is a similar sight that you could see in JK2: A large majority of players utilize a very small portion of the available moves, use practically none of the defensive options and rely primarily on flashy specials/katas to get kills. ....in short, predictable and easy to figure out. The players that really scare the hell out of me are those who use the saber as a precision instrument and those players are usually always at the top of the scoreboard. Why? Because they took the time to learn the game inside and out. No one move in the game is guaranteed to make your score higher. It's the synthesis of all the available offensive, defensive and positioning options that really makes the difference. With that set of skills at your fingertips, no saber type has any advantage whatsoever over another. So yeah, there are some technical issues that should be addressed but leave the combat engine alone. If you think that the combat is skewed, my suggestion is to patch yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunafish Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Saber combat is fine, if you're getting beat down then switch, but good players will always find a weakness in whichever stance you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaz Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 The only imbalance in saber combat is the uselessnes of ground stabs. LIVE WITH IT... http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114510 Read, all of the posts comedown pretty much to that the sabercombat is balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Yeah ground stabs suck bad. I wish the patch add some new way to throw people down. The only way u can do that now is kicking with staff or push/pull some noob with level 1 or 2 pp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 This game needs the panzer from RTCW: ET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialForces Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Ryuken The balance issues in this game are so numerous, it makes me wonder if the game was even beta tested. It is like EVERYTHING in this game is wrong, it is just amazing. The hit-boxes are wrong, the sabre balance is wrong...hell, has anyone actually tested yellow stance properly? Left swings always missing, right doing huge damage...great job monkey beta testers, you earned your bananas. After 1.04 JO, with its near perfection, it was a kick to the gut to play this flawed product. Basically the only good thing is the removal of kick. DONT START FLAMING AT ME OK! but maybe your just a noob and need to realern moves and stuff... on jk2 I would always do better with right movments than left because im right handed..... I cant even do a left wall run.... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eniaC Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed This game needs the panzer from RTCW: ET and the flamethrower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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