dead (lack of s/o ctf servers)

[Blankie]

well let's just pretend that never happened then

 

Who would of thought the giant "DELETE POST?" at the top of the screen meant... delete post.

 

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[Comm539]

Origanally posted by Comm539-

"You people are so pathetic. Its a game. Its not a major issue you either think its a good or bad idea, not quote some canon trash (because btw sabers should be one hit killers!!!1111oneonetwotwo)"

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthre...threadid=116056

 

hmmm?

 

 

well this affects the entire game...the game stalemates. Its not an arguement over whether anikan should block lightening with level 3 defence and what button he should press it with. Or one of your other 'crucial' arguements over the devastating bug that means a dead body moves when you lightening it. As i said, you people are so pathetic.

 

JA= new maps, better graphics, wider community (for recruting), competitions.

JA has everything already coded for our gamemode to work perfectly again...all that we ask is that theres a toggleable command to turn the features on.

[SpartaZx]

Originally posted by .:Silver:.

I'm a big s/o ctf fan from JO. In JA it's not real easy to have much fun with it though. However, the two Chop Shop servers solve many of JA's s/o pitfalls by giving saberists the most deadly weapon. These servers still allow players to use guns, but have ramped up the damage scale on sabers so much that one clean hit will kill anyone. Those who are masters at guns will still be good, but those of us who were masters with the saber in JO can now hold our own. It's not s/o ctf, but it can be just as satisfying once you get familiarized to the new settings.

 

i played at chop shop the other day and it was packed with people who just had staff saber running slashing randomly and when they actually scratched something and kill them theyd go like "owned" and **** like that. i mean people think that upping the dmg scale is going to help but it just means that there is no skill or tactics involved in returning the flag just pulling and slashing the fc like an idiot and he dies cuz a scratch does i dunno 200 dmg.

[g//anarki]

Originally posted by noide

i played at chop shop the other day and it was packed with people who just had staff saber running slashing randomly and when they actually scratched something and kill them theyd go like "owned" and **** like that. i mean people think that upping the dmg scale is going to help but it just means that there is no skill or tactics involved in returning the flag just pulling and slashing the fc like an idiot and he dies cuz a scratch does i dunno 200 dmg.

 

Well, ChopShop is an instagib pub server and teamwork was always just a far-off dream in pubs. It's a great server when you want to play some quick games and stuff. Upping the damage scale can make pub games more fun but will make competition matches a lot less interesting.

[Akshara]

The other night at around 4am on Chop Shop we had an awesome team based game, where the team leader was directing everyone into squads, everyone played their individual part and stuck with it, and it was a total blast. The other team simply couldn't get our flag... and when they did, we always got it back very quickly. It was exciting, tense, challenging, strategic, and an amazing good time. Several of our team were new to the game and totally fell in love with it right then. Reminded me of great team based CTF from the EF:Voyager days.

 

You guys seriously need to play more. There's some really great stuff happening online... seems like everyone's too busy complaining to notice though. If you guys gave this game a serious chance with an open mind, you might actually enjoy it a little bit. However, regardless of the supposed gameplay differences, I'm enjoying JA MP a whole lot more than I ever did JO, and that's all that matters to me. I'm not striving to become a JA master... simply wanting to have a high enjoyment to money spent ratio. So far, I've definitely gotten my money's worth.

 

JA rocks! Thank you Raven!!!!!

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled bitchfest...

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

g//plaZma and Akshara have it exactly right, noide. As I mentioned in my post above, I don't intend my servers to be for advanced TWL CTF players. I'm trying to enlarge the community as a whole and CTF in particular by introducing new players to CTF and getting them excited about it. Let's face it, if a newbie (in the original non-pejoritive usage) tries CTF for the first time and doesn't have fun, he's going to say "CTF sucks!" and never wan't to play it again. But if I make it easier for them to get kills and contribute to their team, they will be more likely to think "CTF roXXors!" and play more. Then someday they might grow up to be good tactical and strategic CTF players.

 

And sometimes it's just fun to blow off some steam and "go noob style" as some old pros say when they come to my servers, and just enjoy slashing and killing and capping for the fun of it. It's also great when a really good competitive CTF player comes and shows the beginners how it's done, strafe-jumping and all (even just using team chat binds instead of regular chat to give instructions, for God's sake). So just change your name so none of your TWL friends will know you are there, "go noob style", and have fun!

[eniaC]

Originally posted by Comm539

As i said, you people are so pathetic.

 

 

http://funwavs.com/wavfile.php?quote=1709&sound=298

http://funwavs.com/wavfile.php?quote=1713&sound=298

http://funwavs.com/wavfile.php?quote=3910&sound=298

 

eniaC

 

 

*edited* I see your point about no s/o ctf regardless of force or not there where only 3 server's when I checked, one in the U.K., one in Portugal, and one in the U.S. that was half full of bots w/ no players.

Could see where that could suck not being able to play s/o ff ctf even if you wanted to due to lack of servers if thats your main attraction to MP.

[Comm539]

Originally posted by Akshara

The other night at around 4am on Chop Shop we had an awesome team based game, where the team leader was directing everyone into squads, everyone played their individual part and stuck with it, and it was a total blast. The other team simply couldn't get our flag... and when they did, we always got it back very quickly. It was exciting, tense, challenging, strategic, and an amazing good time. Several of our team were new to the game and totally fell in love with it right then. Reminded me of great team based CTF from the EF:Voyager days.

 

You guys seriously need to play more. There's some really great stuff happening online... seems like everyone's too busy complaining to notice though. If you guys gave this game a serious chance with an open mind, you might actually enjoy it a little bit. However, regardless of the supposed gameplay differences, I'm enjoying JA MP a whole lot more than I ever did JO, and that's all that matters to me. I'm not striving to become a JA master... simply wanting to have a high enjoyment to money spent ratio. So far, I've definitely gotten my money's worth.

 

JA rocks! Thank you Raven!!!!!

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled bitchfest...

 

 

Congrats you understand that its fun. As you said, you were on a pub server with noobs. Although you might find that fun, after the first 2 games i just get bored of running behind some guy who lightenings people for a living, spamming blue style. Thats not fun. Thats not skillful. Really, its you who needs to see an organised game. Then you may see how the game stales every time...thats not fun.

[Akshara]

Not a single veteran or experienced player is even playing it.

I understand... but I've seen this kind of thing happen in so many online communities over the years. A large following happens and a group becomes really experienced... then a new version comes out with different gameplay and everything goes out the window. Inevitably and understandably those who are good at the earlier version hate the new one and call it "unplayable." The old community can't and doesn't migrate over, and the game is declared "dead."

 

Meanwhile, a whole new group of people show up having never really played the original and nothing to compare the game to. They simply learn how to play it from scratch, and develop strategies and techniques based on the gameplay style. Over time several get really good and an entire community based around these players begins to develop. New veterans and experienced players start to take pride in their accomplishment and how far the community has come.

 

Then a new version comes out that changes the gameplay, and these veterans can't migrate to the new techniques and call the game "unplayable." And so it begins again...

 

And on and on and on and on.... it never ends. I've seen it happen too many times to be able to take it seriously. Raven might patch up a few things, but in general you all are just gonna have to learn to deal with and develop new techniques, or simply not play the game. A new community will arise around this game whether you're a part of it or not... it's the simple truth.

 

Really, its you who needs to see an organised game. Then you may see how the game stales every time...thats not fun.

 

I actually would like to. And I am sorry that this has ruined your ability to have fun with it... truly. Another game will come along that inspires you, just as this one will for somebody as yet undiscovered. It's just like the cycle of the seasons...

 

There's nothing new under the sun.

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

Well the s/o ff CTF crowd are a very elite and competitive group of players, with their own clans, servers, TWL, etc. It's like the golfers on the PGA or LPGA tour compared the vast majority of golfers who play for fun and relaxation, so I don't think there would be enough demand for me to justify making one of my servers a s/o ff CTF-only public server.

 

I see my role differently. Everyone has to start somewhere. The current competitive CTF players were not born with flags on their backs. Before you can have experienced, skilled, competitve, hard-core CTF players, you have to have beginner CTF players. There are a lot of online players who think online FPS gaming = deathmatch\FFA. Maybe some try or specialize in dueling, but many have never tried or even heard of CTF, and would never imagine joining an all-CTF server.

 

One of the hallmark features of all Chop Shop servers (even the JK2 Instagib server) is changing gametypes during the map rotation. Currently both JA servers have a rotation of 5 FFA maps, then 5 CTF maps, then 1 Team FFA map (to ease the transition from CTF to FFA). What happens is the FFA players suddenly find themselves in the first of 5 consecutive CTF maps. Most of them stick around and play their first-ever CTF games (I can tell they've never played before because a lot of them ask "I have the flag, what do I do with it?" "Where do I take this flag?" "I took the flag to our base, where do I plant it?"). Of course, as we all know, CTF is a lot of fun at any level of expertise, so a lot (not all) of former deathmatch\FFA only players discover a new love. Some of them will become the TWL CTF players of the future.

 

That being said, I was planning on making one of the servers all-CTF after the browser patch comes out. It would be easy enough for me to have a rotation alternating 5 full-weapon CTF maps with 5 saber-only CTF maps. The other server would remain FFA-CTF-TFFA to introduce (seduce?) new players to CTF. The CTF server would let the beginning and intermediate CTF players gain experience in a less-competitve environment than TWL, and introduce the full-weapon CTF players to the subtleties of saber-only CTF. We'll see how it goes. Just consider Chop Shop to be part of the "farm" leagues for the "big leagues" of TWL.

 

Look at it like this; let's drop the CTF aspect for a second and just look at the state of competitive gaming in Academy compared to Outcast.

 

(This is not directed at you, it’s just a general statement.)

 

Full Force saber only was THE single most popular game type(s) across the globe in European and American leagues and ladders since the day Jedi Outcast was released until the very day Jedi Academy came out.

 

No other game type, No Force dueling, Full weapon CTF, etc. was ever able to compete with the sheer size and activity of the Full Force saber only community.

 

Long after many Full weapon CTF leagues bit the dust, long after many of the NF duel elites hung it up, the FF/SO players were going strong as ever.

 

Even as recent as a month or so before Academy was released, there was a large corporate sponsored tournament involving almost every competitive FF/SO CTF clan in Jedi Outcast.

 

 

Keep in mind this was just a few months ago, back when this game had been "dead" for over 1/2 a year.

 

This company tried to get this tourney going with members of the full weapon CTF communit first, but they could not even find two full teams who still played the game.

 

 

And let's take a look at THE single most popular competitive game type ever in Jedi Outcast.

 

Full Force dueling.

 

No other ladder or league ever even came close to the sheer size and activity that competitive Full Force dueling had.

 

Going all the way back to the days of 1.02 and a guy named Artifex, this game type is where people looked when they wanted to know "who's the best?"

 

 

Now?

 

 

Not a single veteran FF/SO duel player is playing Jedi Academy on these leagues (other than rumor and his clan).

 

Say what you want about the overall community, but as far as the competitive community goes, the FF/SO players (duel, CTF) made up about 70% of the global competitive community in Outcast, and with not a single returning veteran, the life span of the JA competitive community is not looking good.

 

 

TWL has already made a last ditch plea to players to get more active or else the plug may be pulled.

 

Now keep in mind, this is only a *single month after the game was launched...

 

Competitive gaming in Academy, sadly, is going to die a very pre mature death. Many of the Full Weapon CTF veterans have decided to leave already and the competitive NF duel scene is no where nearly as active as it was in Outcast.

 

Now this brings us back to the same situation we all faced in Outcast, problem is, when about 70% of the competitive community from Outcast has chosen not to play Academy, good luck finding people to keep these leagues and ladders open.

 

Siege sure as hell is not going to be the solution, they can't even get more than 7 clans signed up for the ladder, and it’s not even unlocked yet due to the lack of participation.

 

And the sad thing is, we WANT to play FF/SO competitively.

 

And the ironic thing is, our % of overall ratio of the competitive community would be even greater this time because many clans who did not compete on ladders in Outcast are willing to sign up this time around.

 

But we simply can not play FF/SO on a competitive level in it's current incarnation.

 

There have been too many changes and nerfs that basically have made games become total stale mates, not just in CTF but in duels as well.

 

And while I know many of you like to offer up the "use g_saberDamageScale 2" tip, there are far more problems than just saber damage.

 

We could take the scale all the way up to 57, but many people fail to grasp one thing:

 

The one thing we will never sacrifice or make compromises on is precision.

 

Jacking up the saber damage to insanely high levels and making the game a match of "bump and kill" defeats the very purpose of skilled competitive gaming.

 

Hell, why not just enable rocket launchers in NF duels if people are having issues with a stance being much weaker than others.

 

 

Competitive gaming at it’s core is not just about the win, it’s about developing your level of skill to a point where you have no equal.

 

And while we do play to win at all costs, we also *practice and play to prove to people that there is simply no better player/clan out there.

 

 

Reducing it to a game of “flail randomly + touch players = kill every thing” is exactly what jacked saber scales do.

[boinga1]

Umm...just because many people from JO don't play JA DOESN'T mean that there are no people, totally new to the Dark Forces Saga, who are playing.

 

Believe all you want, but JA is not going to die anytime soon. The features (dual sabers, saber staffs, and yes, L33T S4B3R M0V3S) are everything a Star Wars Geek could probably ever want.

[g//anarki]

Originally posted by boinga1

Umm...just because many people from JO don't play JA DOESN'T mean that there are no people, totally new to the Dark Forces Saga, who are playing.

 

Believe all you want, but JA is not going to die anytime soon. The features (dual sabers, saber staffs, and yes, L33T S4B3R M0V3S) are everything a Star Wars Geek could probably ever want.

 

A StarWars geek but not a gamer. I myself wasn't very much into StarWars (liked the movies but nothing more) and I still played JO because it was fun and I've been following the series since DF. If watching the pretty saber moves is the only thing that attracts people, there won't be much people playing because of the greatness of the game, but for the sabers and their StarWars "experience." Hell, it should have been called a Saber Sim instead of a First Person Shooter if that's all that's keeping people playing. And if that's all that's keeping people playing, there won't be much more competition in JA, hence the death of it.

[-(- -)-Pyro]

that made no cents

[cheeto101]

yeah, well once again, this all stems back to who raven designed the game for..............The majority of people who buy their games. Who just happen to be casual gamers. I mean, do you see hundreds of thousands of people in competative leagues??? Nope. Maybe a thousand. That means that the other 90+% of people are playin casually.

 

Hennnceeeee, they designed a game thats easy to pick up, and gives everyone a chance to win right from the get go. Granted this ruins trult competative gaming, but it keeps the casual people happy for a year or so, which is when raven/lucasarts makes all its money on the game.

 

Fact is, that after this time frame, it dont matter too much to raven or lucas whether this game is still alive cause theyve made all their money. And if you think casual gamers are gonna bail cause competative leagues are gone, your nuts.

 

So really, unless raven changes their ctf system in a patch, your gonna have to use mods and cvars to make JA a good enviornment for competative ctf.

[FK | unnamed]

I would be happy to use mods to get our level of high skilled game play back on track, to be honest, I have no use for "public servers" other than "laming rampages" I do every now and then.

 

problem is, we need the mp SDK for mod making....

[.:Silver:.]

When I first entered the Chops Shops, I too thought it would be a noob fest of mindless swinging. This is true, if you're not very good. Strategy for veteran gamers is still utilized in a high damage scale atmosphere. You just have to adjust your strategy to the fact that the other guy is a legitimate threat. I left the ladders of twl on JO because most of the teams just weren't that good. Now, I am challenged to become a better player. After one map rotation of ctf on a high damage server, I've never lost a match when competing on a different "normal damage" server. So, you want to get good? Play in an arena where constant threat is always around the next corner.

[SpartaZx]

Originally posted by .:Silver:.

I left the ladders of twl on JO because most of the teams just weren't that good.

 

whooo are you and what clan were u in. are u glince. i dont remember glince being in any twl teams..

 

oh and i played in chop shop today with a guy named silver and he didnt do much.

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

Full Force saber only was THE single most popular game type(s) across the globe in European and American leagues and ladders since the day Jedi Outcast was released until the very day Jedi Academy came out.

 

No other game type, No Force dueling, Full weapon CTF, etc. was ever able to compete with the sheer size and activity of the Full Force saber only community.

 

Long after many Full weapon CTF leagues bit the dust, long after many of the NF duel elites hung it up, the FF/SO players were going strong as ever.

 

Even as recent as a month or so before Academy was released, there was a large corporate sponsored tournament involving almost every competitive FF/SO CTF clan in Jedi Outcast.

 

This company tried to get this tourney going with members of the full weapon CTF communit first, but they could not even find two full teams who still played the game.

 

Competitive gaming in Academy, sadly, is going to die a very pre mature death. Many of the Full Weapon CTF veterans have decided to leave already and the competitive NF duel scene is no where nearly as active as it was in Outcast.

 

 

So, it seems you are saying in JKII the full-weapon CTF activity died because the serious competitive CTF players greatly preferred FF/SO CTF. If FF/SO in JA is no longer as appealing, do you think the players who still like CTF with lightsabers and Force powers will switch over to FF/full-weapon CTF? It would still have the lightsabers and Force powers that other gun-only games lack. I'm just curious as someone who does not have the time\interest\dedication\talent to devote to that activity, but is interested nonetheless.

[Comm539]

Sorry to break it to you, but JA/JK2 aren't the best gun games out there. Sabers are different...no other game has them. Thats why i want to play s/o. JA has the code for s/o ff games to work, just not the commands to turn them on. Why should we change if all we need is a command (or the sdk).

And what about ff duelling? Give everyone a couple of guns and that should sort it out eh?

 

Once again, you cant suggest a solution other than what we've asked for, so you think :"oh play another gamemode". I seriously think some people here are just plain retarded. If you have nothing relevant to say, **** off somewhere else. Good Fight.

[FK | unnamed]

Nah Amidala from Chop Shop was just curious, she's cool, she just wanted to know if players would switch over.

 

To be honest though, I've seen maybe 4 vet ff/so players move into guns but all of them quit after two weeks it seems.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure why ff/so was more popular than full weapon games on leagues, but I assume the main reason was guns were better than sabers when full weapons were enabled so most people who played only to win, used guns as their primary weapon in JO 1.04 when playing in full weapon servers/matches.

 

The thing is, the guns in JK2/JA are really poor when compared to other games like quake 3, so for the serious gunner, jk2 could not compete with games like quake 3/ut 2003.

 

ff/so was (for most of us who played a lot of first person shooters) a nice diversion (the different game type being not focused on point and click shooting) but it also was able to be played at a serious competitive level due to how complex it was.

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by Comm539

Sorry to break it to you, but JA/JK2 aren't the best gun games out there. Sabers are different...no other game has them. Thats why i want to play s/o. JA has the code for s/o ff games to work, just not the commands to turn them on. Why should we change if all we need is a command (or the sdk).

And what about ff duelling? Give everyone a couple of guns and that should sort it out eh?

 

Once again, you cant suggest a solution other than what we've asked for, so you think :"oh play another gamemode". I seriously think some people here are just plain retarded. If you have nothing relevant to say, **** off somewhere else. Good Fight.

 

Um, as you can see from my use of the quote, my question was directed at FK | unnamed. I was wondering about what he thought the future direction of the game was going to be in regards to CTF. I wasn't trying to offer solutions. What you are asking for may never happen. I am interested in FK | unnamed's opinions, not yours.

[FK | unnamed]

To be honest, I would rather play quake 3 or ut2003 if I want to gun, but I really do think guns are more fun in JA than JO.

 

The main thing I hated about JO gunning was the maps.

 

The small hallways, tight corners, low roofs, it just made for crappy gunning when you considered that the most effective weapons in the game were all alt-fire splash/lob shots.

 

 

The first thing I said when I played the JA CTF maps was "these feel like quake 3 maps" and sure enough, the people who made the maps for JA were none other than the three wave team who made the immensely popular three wave CTF mod for quake 3.

 

I really like the flow full weapon gun CTF has on maps like that yavin hill top and the coruscant streets maps, especially if you get in a 5v5 or 6v6 match.

 

But even though I do think the pace of game is much better now, it's still not enough to pull me away from other FPS games that do the gunning thing much better.

[.:Silver:.]

Originally posted by noide

oh and i played in chop shop today with a guy named silver and he didnt do much.

 

I was there. Out of a rotation of 10 ctf maps (after ffa), my team won 9 games. Either you just showed up as I left or someone was using a similar name when I wasn't around.

[cheeto101]

hmm although sabers are the main draw of the JK series, guns did play a signifigant role in star wars and i mean, who doesnt wanna pull a jango fett (or boba) and go all commando with the blasters. So IMHO i think that yeah, guns should play an intrecate roll in any non saber only game. I mean, we want as many people to play JA as possible, so why not have cool guns as well as cool sabers? 2 good options are better then one. Non-saber only game modes really get the shaft in my opinion. I have fun with them alot.

[MasterSidious]

Everyone here has prolly played instagib one time or other right. I propose this:

 

instead of instagib (one hit kill guns only with unlimited ammo), lets make a concusion rifle with regular dmg and unlimited ammo, I don't have the game yet but this is a really cool mod idea, anyoen fell what I'm saying?