Can hosts use the force in a no force server?

[Rumor]

LOL g1 amidala

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by Rumor

instead of adding emotes and giving 12 year old admins enough power over others in servers that they could nut themselves over it instead of hot women in playboy.

 

rofl, I'm sorry but that was funny.

 

 

anyways, simple fact about banning:

 

if a person does not want to be banned, they won't be.

 

ip's can be changed, configs deleted (for newbie admins who name ban) and even range banning (66.86.X.X) is not too hard to get around.

 

http://www.jk2files.com banned me more times than I can remember from not only their server, but all of the {IcoP} servers that I had never even been to (I was making fun of them quite a bit there for a while).

 

yet I found my way back on there time and time again.

 

 

and as for filling up a ban file, if you are banning that many people, just lock the server and password it, you really should not be running a public server if you ban that many people.

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

OMG, please bookmark these pages ASAP!:

 

http://www.dictionary.com

http://www.hookedonphonics.com

 

Marry me?

 

and because it was requested...

 

[Rumor]

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

rofl, I'm sorry but that was funny.

 

 

i know

 

you should see what i did to that lonestar kid on our clan boards. no editing of his posts or name was involved ^^

[Kurgan]

Ok this thread is getting perilously close to the "locked thread" thing, but keep the flaming tempers under control and that won't happen.

 

and as for filling up a ban file, if you are banning that many people, just lock the server and password it, you really should not be running a public server if you ban that many people.

 

Agree 100%. That's a TON of bannage. Seriously, a simple IP range ban should be enough. But then I think having too many hypersensitive rules will ruin any server.

 

If admins lighten up a little (no offense), they won't have to ban so much.

 

So because they can't perm ban huge numbers of people forever, that makes admin mods necessary (ie: cheats for the admin)?

 

In the 0.000000000000000001 cases where you're dealing with a real jerk that won't leave like that, maybe, though I'd think the guy would still find a way to try to annoy you, despite whatever you did to him.

 

In the rest of cases its the ADMIN being the jerk (abusing those "features" of the mod), slapping people around when they beat him or just because he's in a bad mood, giving his friends super powers and pretending to be a tiny god to make up for (whatever)...

[eniaC]

Thx Rad.

 

 

On another note:

 

 

 

"It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."

 

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

 

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me."

 

 

[Vulkan_HFB]

Yes there is a way for the admin to have force and everyone else not have force, but it's really, really obvious to everyone playing because a console message will appear that will tell everyone about it.

 

Whoever wishes to know the exact steps to do this, PM me because I'll probably get crucified if I post how.

 

Edit: I guess while I'm here I'll add my 2 cents... The only reason I want some sort of academy mod to be released for JA is for the multiduel feature and to have better control of when my server goes into cheating mode on Fridays. I'm hoping academy mod for JA will remove access to the invalid NPCs that crash the clients if one is spawned... Like ragnos or the yt-1300.

 

Though currently at my server, the absolute number 1 requested feature these mods will make available is multiduels.

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by Kurgan

 

Agree 100%. That's a TON of bannage. Seriously, a simple IP range ban should be enough. But then I think having too many hypersensitive rules will ruin any server.

 

If admins lighten up a little (no offense), they won't have to ban so much.

 

So because they can't perm ban huge numbers of people forever, that makes admin mods necessary (ie: cheats for the admin)?

 

In the 0.000000000000000001 cases where you're dealing with a real jerk that won't leave like that, maybe, though I'd think the guy would still find a way to try to annoy you, despite whatever you did to him.

 

 

Well, I must respectfully disagree. I hope you know my servers are definitely not totalitarian police states, in fact players never complain about heavy-handed admins, they complain there are never any admins around. However, it is possible to fill up your ban list despite being pretty lenient.

 

The g_banips cvar is limited like all cvars to 256 characters , not 256 IP addresses, 256 characters. Just one IP address can use up to 15 characters (12 digits and 3 periods). Combine this with the fact that the worst troublemakers almost always have dynamic IP addresses and sometimes proxy servers, and therefore one player may use up several IP addresses or ranges. Then if you are fortunate to have a very popular and large public server that runs for many months with hundreds or even thousands of individuals coming through, even if you ban only a tiny percentage of the players, you will fill up g_banips. Then you have to decide who to unban. You can't assume someone banned months previously won't come back.

 

The first player I ever banned was an honor weenie who spent the whole time he was on the server screaming about saber off = peace, you're a f*****g noob if you don't agree with him, this server is full of lamers, yadda yadda. So months later when I decided to clean up my ban list, I "unbanned" him, figuring it was months since he was banned, he wouldn't be back. Sure enough, a couple of weeks later he came in and picked up right where he left off. Back on the ban list.

 

I totally understand why many people hate adminmods. They should be like guns, used only by mature individuals for very limited and specific purposes. In the wrong hands they bring tragedy. That's why I have always disabled the worst and most abuse-prone "features". But they do help with certain basic housekeeping tasks:

 

1. Moves the banned IPs out of g_banips to a file, allowing up to 1,024 IP addresses\ranges to be banned (not that you need that many, but at least you won't run out).

 

2. Automatic logging of player IP addresses when they join the server. There are rarely any admins playing on my servers. But later on, when I am reviewing the log file and find someone suicided >100 times during Team FFA to lower the other team's score, or was spamming racist\profane\abusive insults, or was using one of those damn killtrackers despite server MOTD messages warning not to and multiple pleas from other players to turn it off, it makes it easy to add their IP to the banlist with the automatic logging.

 

3. Multi-line MOTD. The standard one-line MOTD is just too limited to explain the rules (or lack thereof), even though I have a different one for each map. The adminmods allow you to have a multi-line MOTD, in addition to the standard one, that appears for several seconds in large print in the center of the screen, where it can't be missed. It allows me to have multiple lines like:

"All kills are legal"

"Chat at your own risk, don't whine when you die"

"/seta cg_dismember 2 in console to see heads chopped off"

"saber-off = join Obi-wan's ghost"

"Killtrackers off !ktoff Repeat offenders will be BANNED!"

It makes it much harder for the honor weenies to try and impose their rules on everyone. I smile when my players respond "read what the server said when you entered, noob!"

 

4. psay. psay allows you to send private messages to individual (or all) players in large type in the center of the screen. That way you can tell someone who is being a punk to stop without embarassing them. I also use the mpsay all to tell all players during Jedimaster games to "SHOOT ONLY THE GUY WITH THE LIGHTSABER!" I also have two bots, Jedimaster and Noobi-wan, who explain the Jedimaster rules in chat every time they die or kill ("Shoot only the guy with the lightsaber you idiot!")

 

5. Preventing use of /kill during Team FFA. I hate suicide-runners during Team FFA, it's cheap. I asked cHoSeN oNe to add this feature to JA mod, and he added it to JA Mod 1.4. It doesn't stop them from jumping into voids, but at least that's slower than pressing the /kill key 100 times.

 

6. Allows customizing damage. I think flip-kicks in JK2 are cool and take skill to do well, so I doubled the kick damage (goes along with my increased-damage tendencies). Adminmods also allow you to tweak each stance's individual swing's (yellow regular, yellow DFA, yellow backsweep, blue backstab, etc.) damage, if you think they are unbalanced.

 

None of these are abusive or insulting functions. Speaking as someone who has been running two popular and busy JK2 servers, and two reasonably popular JA servers (even with the browser bug), adminmods can be useful if used properly. Like guns, they inherently have the potential for harm, but it depends very much on who is using them and how they use them.

[eniaC]

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

Well, I must respectfully disagree. I hope you know my servers are definitely not totalitarian police states, in fact players never complain about heavy-handed admins, they complain there are never any admins around.

 

There should be more servers like that, sometimes you want to sit down for a few take a breather, and play a game w/ skilled folks that don't sit around and and chat, and not having to worry if your kill was legal or not.

More servers should also post in the startup (like the "Chop Shops") there rules, the ones that I've seen the most whinning on are the ones that say "Defeat your opponents to score points" (or whatever).

 

That way no one has to listen to anyone whine. The guy that Amidala mentioned must have been pretty thick headed not to see the colorful banner stating rules(or lack there of) at startup, or the automated server messages,

More servers should be doing this, imho, it would make things alot easier for all parties involved.

I'm sure people have stated this before, just re-elaberating (sp?)

 

eniaC

[Kurgan]

You make many valid points Amidala and those are definately useful features. I wasn't accusing you personally of being a megalomaniac simply because you used an admin mod, only that by and large I've seen only abuse and complaints coming from people who've experienced them first hand. There are bound to be exceptions and you've shown me you're one (thank goodness!).

 

Those features are useful, yes. I guess the trouble is that these are not the only things put into admin mods.

 

Tweaking the damage values of moves might be problematic. Sure, you can already change the value of saber damage on the fly, but it will list the change at the top of the screen so everybody knows what just happened. If the same is done for the others (or it requires a map restart/change to take effect) that's fine.

 

If the authors of admin mods would use some common sense and restraint and ONLY put in useful commands, rather than bunny, slap, empower, sleep, killplayer, teleport, god mode, and partially invincible emotes, etc. I don't think people would have a problem with them.

 

Now I haven't seen the capabilities of every admin mod out there (I know there were quite a few made for JK2) but I got the impression that whichever one started it all was "open sourced" and this allowed people to make their "own versions" which incorporated a lot of crappy cheat-like abuse-prone abilities.

 

I guess the mod authors should just get together (form a cartel) and agree NOT to put in crappy features like that and keep their mods closed source.

 

If somebody wants to learn how to make a mod and give it abuse prone features, they can knock themselves out, but the authors who already know how to make them should learn from their mistakes in JA.

 

I'd rather NOT see admin mods be made for JA than see them made and abused like they were in the previous community, I guess is the bottom line for me...

[KaiaSowapit]

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

...it is possible to fill up your ban list despite being pretty lenient.

 

The g_banips cvar is limited like all cvars to 256 characters , not 256 IP addresses, 256 characters. Just one IP address can use up to 15 characters (12 digits and 3 periods). Combine this with the fact that the worst troublemakers almost always have dynamic IP addresses and sometimes proxy servers, and therefore one player may use up several IP addresses or ranges. Then if you are fortunate to have a very popular and large public server that runs for many months with hundreds or even thousands of individuals coming through, even if you ban only a tiny percentage of the players, you will fill up g_banips. Then you have to decide who to unban. You can't assume someone banned months previously won't come back.

 

The first player I ever banned was an honor weenie who spent the whole time he was on the server screaming about saber off = peace, you're a f*****g noob if you don't agree with him, this server is full of lamers, yadda yadda. So months later when I decided to clean up my ban list, I "unbanned" him, figuring it was months since he was banned, he wouldn't be back. Sure enough, a couple of weeks later he came in and picked up right where he left off. Back on the ban list.

 

I totally understand why many people hate adminmods. They should be like guns, used only by mature individuals for very limited and specific purposes. In the wrong hands they bring tragedy. That's why I have always disabled the worst and most abuse-prone "features". But they do help with certain basic housekeeping tasks:

 

1. Moves the banned IPs out of g_banips to a file, allowing up to 1,024 IP addresses\ranges to be banned (not that you need that many, but at least you won't run out).

 

2. Automatic logging of player IP addresses when they join the server. There are rarely any admins playing on my servers. But later on, when I am reviewing the log file and find someone suicided >100 times during Team FFA to lower the other team's score, or was spamming racist\profane\abusive insults, or was using one of those damn killtrackers despite server MOTD messages warning not to and multiple pleas from other players to turn it off, it makes it easy to add their IP to the banlist with the automatic logging.

 

3. Multi-line MOTD. The standard one-line MOTD is just too limited to explain the rules (or lack thereof), even though I have a different one for each map. The adminmods allow you to have a multi-line MOTD, in addition to the standard one, that appears for several seconds in large print in the center of the screen, where it can't be missed. It allows me to have multiple lines like:

"All kills are legal"

"Chat at your own risk, don't whine when you die"

"/seta cg_dismember 2 in console to see heads chopped off"

"saber-off = join Obi-wan's ghost"

"Killtrackers off !ktoff Repeat offenders will be BANNED!"

It makes it much harder for the honor weenies to try and impose their rules on everyone. I smile when my players respond "read what the server said when you entered, noob!"

 

4. psay. psay allows you to send private messages to individual (or all) players in large type in the center of the screen. That way you can tell someone who is being a punk to stop without embarassing them. I also use the mpsay all to tell all players during Jedimaster games to "SHOOT ONLY THE GUY WITH THE LIGHTSABER!" I also have two bots, Jedimaster and Noobi-wan, who explain the Jedimaster rules in chat every time they die or kill ("Shoot only the guy with the lightsaber you idiot!")

 

5. Preventing use of /kill during Team FFA. I hate suicide-runners during Team FFA, it's cheap. I asked cHoSeN oNe to add this feature to JA mod, and he added it to JA Mod 1.4. It doesn't stop them from jumping into voids, but at least that's slower than pressing the /kill key 100 times.

 

6. Allows customizing damage. I think flip-kicks in JK2 are cool and take skill to do well, so I doubled the kick damage (goes along with my increased-damage tendencies). Adminmods also allow you to tweak each stance's individual swing's (yellow regular, yellow DFA, yellow backsweep, blue backstab, etc.) damage, if you think they are unbalanced.

 

None of these are abusive or insulting functions. Speaking as someone who has been running two popular and busy JK2 servers, and two reasonably popular JA servers (even with the browser bug), adminmods can be useful if used properly. Like guns, they inherently have the potential for harm, but it depends very much on who is using them and how they use them.

Amen.

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by Kurgan

You make many valid points Amidala and those are definately useful features. I wasn't accusing you personally of being a megalomaniac simply because you used an admin mod, only that by and large I've seen only abuse and complaints coming from people who've experienced them first hand. There are bound to be exceptions and you've shown me you're one (thank goodness!).

 

Those features are useful, yes. I guess the trouble is that these are not the only things put into admin mods.

 

No offense taken!

 

Like I said, I totally understand why so many people hate them, and rightly so when they lead so easily to abuse. I think my gun analogy is a good one. A gun in the hands of a 35-year-old police officer, skeet shooter, or biathalon competitor is one thing. A gun in the hands of a 13-year-old with poor social skills is something else entirely. Unfortunately, it is even easier for most 13-year-olds to get an adminmod than it is for them to get a gun.

 

I am concerned because I know many fine players will never go to a server running an adminmod (and again, I totally understand why based on their past experiences). There is no way for them to know that the worst features have been disabled and they are being used mostly for the rather neutral\benign features I mentioned earlier. It will be hard to give up those conveniences in order to keep from scaring some people away.

 

I wish the adminmod makers would make a "light" version that had a different name than the "full-strength" version. The "light" version would lack all of the worst "features" (empower, terminator, punish, slap, explode, etc.) so it could be used for the housekeeping\benign features I mentioned. (I forgot to mention some other nice features like /ignore <playername> that allows players to block the chat of any other player from appearing on their screen, support for longer player names and black letters, autorenaming of players with duplicate names [makes them Padawan1, Padawan2, etc. to reduce confusion], and allowing multiple simultaneous duels during FFA [if you like that sort of thing:rolleyes: ]). That way, admins and players get the nice features and no one has to worry about being abused (or being tempted to abuse).

[mark_ahlers]

2. Automatic logging of player IP addresses when they join the server. There are rarely any admins playing on my servers. But later on, when I am reviewing the log file and find someone suicided >100 times during Team FFA to lower the other team's score, or was spamming racist\profane\abusive insults, or was using one of those damn killtrackers despite server MOTD messages warning not to and multiple pleas from other players to turn it off, it makes it easy to add their IP to the banlist with the automatic logging.

 

Amen.

 

Totally agree. Right now if I go through the logs I can only see Players names. If I have to ban "Padawan" then I don't even bother since I don't want to ruin the game for other people. Oh well, I'm just thankful for my server and for the post turkey nap on Thursday. :-) Happy Thanksgiving everyone. (Yes it's 2 days early but I like being proactive) :-)

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

For all admins who want IP logging until an admin mod comes out, here is my workaround:

 

Download Fragomatic Rcon Commander 3.0 here:

http://www.planetquake.com/fragomatic/download.asp

 

Under View,Options..., Check the boxes for Save Console Log and Auto-Query Status. Choose a time interval (1-5 minutes is good), then click OK. Rcon Commander will automatically run /rcon status at the time intervals you specified, showing you all players and their IP addresses. It saves the status snapshots in a log file that you can review later. By using the Find or Search function in your text file viewer, you can search for a player by name.

 

If they use a name like Padawan, you have to do some detective work. Look in the game log file to see what other players were playing with Padawan. Find the one with the most unusual name and Find that name in the Rcon Commander log. You should eventually find the status shot that corresponds to the game log entries when Padawan was playing.