Crow_Nest Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 What is "MTFBWYA" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Correct me if im wrong but the sabers the younglings are weaker sabers and could do no damage to metal objects, possibly burn the skin but not crop an arm off like a full saber can do which the older jedi use. And about Kyles saber, my view is that the saber he uses in JO, was one built for training use like the numerous cloned Reborn hilt design.....but Luke gave it to Kyle and thats his saber and saber design. My 50 Pence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Which comes first.. being a Jedi or building a lightsaber? Chicken vs. Egg? WOW ! - I am quite honoured, such a lengthy reply from the admin from the Dawn of Time... !! I think we are all verging on putting far too much thought into it, and do not want this to become one of those "wet & messy" force.net forum discussions... (speaking from mucho experienco) However, I will take home these *facts*, and that should be enough for me : *Lightasbers are associated with Jedi/Sith(force attuned individuals to a certain degree) In fact they may be considered symbolic of them..... though, not all force sensitive individuals are jedi/sith, and not all sport a lightsaber, and maybe vice versa.... From the EU, not many would consider Leia a "jedi".... she does have a saber(which she built herself ), but mainly uses the force as a pan-galactic baby monitor to keep track of her kids..... *Alot of EU characters are documented as having "built their own saber" - Corran horn in "I, Jedi" Including various other descriptions(especially) in the "Jedi Academy Trilogy", not to mention "Lightsabers" - one of the "Young Jedi Knights" books(by the same author as the JA trilogy) where it describes the Solo kids starting their lightsaber training..... as well as the consequences of a poorly built first saber.... Alot of these characters seem to have highly individualised sabers, Corran horn used a speeder bike handle, Calista(Lukes old EU girlfriend) had a very pretty one,(IIRC described in 'Children of the Jedi') However, these were not necessarily their *very first* sabers... *Although it may not be the quintessential rite of passage for a jedi to either build or begin to carry a saber, it can definitely be associated some importance since the lightsaber is a symbolic weapon of a jedi, and much time would have been invested into training with them.... *Kyle Katarn was for a short time, part of the Jedi Praxeum. It would not be ridiculous to assume he built his saber then and left it on Yavin with Luke when he left.... Still - It is definitely cynical to assume padawan mini training sabers are made by them.... Samurai are Samurai, Special Forces guys are exactly that too, Jedi are fictional characters, with an aura of mystique. Assigning them a special and symbolic weapon, making them look a certain way(all perhaps "brain bugs") just gives them more definition in this created universe.... Still, also - Highlander 4 bites, hardcore....and yes, KURGAN, your avatar is definitey scary.... DYNAMIC CROW - ROLL BACK THE PATCH ! May The Force Be With You Always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by Astrotoy7 WOW ! - I am quite honoured, such a lengthy reply from the admin from the Dawn of Time... !! *bows* I think we are all verging on putting far too much thought into it, and do not want this to become one of those "wet & messy" force.net forum discussions... (speaking from mucho experienco) Well if we don't throw some excitement into it, what's the point of debating? Might as well say "who cares" (as I'm sure some folks have already done after reading a few posts, heh!). *Lightasbers are associated with Jedi/Sith(force attuned individuals to a certain degree) In fact they may be considered symbolic of them..... The Sith! My point exactly. Jedi = Lightsabers ignores the Sith. Sure the Sith are "thought to be extinct" and hiding etc for the past thousand years, but that's not always been true, even by EU standards. though, not all force sensitive individuals are jedi/sith, and not all sport a lightsaber, and maybe vice versa.... From the EU, not many would consider Leia a "jedi".... she does have a saber(which she built herself ), but mainly uses the force as a pan-galactic baby monitor to keep track of her kids..... See that's the thing, according to some EU authors Leia is pathetic in the Force, barely able to use the Force to activate a light switch. According to others, she's so friggin' powerful that she can use the "power of Luminesce beings" to seperate the Cloned Emperor from one of his Force Storms and simultaneously bring Luke back from the Dark Side. She also has the skills to duel Vader saber to saber. *Alot of EU characters are documented as having "built their own saber" - Corran horn in "I, Jedi" Including various other descriptions(especially) in the "Jedi Academy Trilogy", not to mention "Lightsabers" - one of the "Young Jedi Knights" books(by the same author as the JA trilogy) where it describes the Solo kids starting their lightsaber training..... as well as the consequences of a poorly built first saber.... Sure, and I would assume that with the Jedi Order destroyed, invididuals having to build their own sabers would be a more common occurence. We just have no evidence of it being common practice pre-Empire, do we? Or do we? *Although it may not be the quintessential rite of passage for a jedi to either build or begin to carry a saber, it can definitely be associated some importance since the lightsaber is a symbolic weapon of a jedi, and much time would have been invested into training with them.... I agree completely. All I disagree with is the notion that if you don't build your own saber you're not a Jedi / build your own saber you're automatically a Jedi. Frankly the "you have done the impossible, and built a lightsaber on your own" plotline for JA felt weak to me. Are we to assume you just "knew how to do it" without having any instruction or reading, etc? We've seen Jedi do some amazing things, but basically they're saying we should buy that the Force "told you" how to build a piece of technology. Hmmm... Sort of like somebody built a motorcycle without any experience or instruction in mechanics... and went on to become the greatest biker daredevil ever.... ; ) (Then again, maybe it's not so far fetched for a legendary story) (On the other hand, was what Luke did any less amazing with his saber? After all, he just found the books and spare parts in his dead teacher's house and did it all himself.) *Kyle Katarn was for a short time, part of the Jedi Praxeum. It would not be ridiculous to assume he built his saber then and left it on Yavin with Luke when he left.... When did they stop calling it an academy and start calling it a Praxeum? Just curious... Still - It is definitely cynical to assume padawan mini training sabers are made by them.... But then again, why so far fetched? Anakin built C3PO and a Pod Racer apparently on his own and he was what, 11 years old, tops? It may have taken him years, but that makes it an even more amazing feat, considering how young he'd have to be when he started... Samurai are Samurai, Special Forces guys are exactly that too, Jedi are fictional characters, with an aura of mystique. Assigning them a special and symbolic weapon, making them look a certain way(all perhaps "brain bugs") just gives them more definition in this created universe.... LoL exactly so, the only trouble with brain bugs is sometimes they appear for no reason, and they end up being silly compared to alternate explanations. Sort of like how in Star Trek Jeffrey's Tubes suddenly became the primary means of accessing important ships systems, when in the original show we only ever saw one of them. Or the fact that Tatooine Desert robes seem to be the "uniform" of the Jedi Order, even though they are centered on Coruscant... (even Lucas fell for some of them). A brain bug is simply a stale idea. Something old is copied into something new, forgetting why it made sense to have it in the first place... sure it can be forgiven, but, well it's annoying sometimes! ; ) Still, also - Highlander 4 bites, hardcore....and yes, KURGAN, your avatar is definitey scary.... Muhahahahahaha! Well it's true, any Highlander movie without Kurgan in it was definately lacking. ; ) Tesla: Correct me if im wrong but the sabers the younglings are weaker sabers and could do no damage to metal objects, possibly burn the skin but not crop an arm off like a full saber can do which the older jedi use. That's a cool idea, but where does it come from? Source? (Sort of like the "saberstaff is a training saber" idea...) Just curious. And anyway, if a little tyke Youngling builds a saber with a weaker power cell, isn't he still doing an amazing thing by building it in the first place? It would be sort of like somebody building a gun that can only shoot blanks... still quite a feat of engineering skill and craftsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 I don't think building a lightsaber is the last step to being a Jedi, but it is a step. This is how I think it works, IMO: 1. Upon being indoctrinated into the Academy, (or Jedi Temple in the Old Republic's days) each trainee gets a "trainer saber." This saber's blade is basically light and doesn't do any damage. Rosh alludes to this at the beginning of JA: "I'll probably get one of those stupid training sabers." (or something to that end) 2. Upon proving oneself in basic Force training, the student builds a lightsaber of his own, a "Padawan" saber. Though Padawan sabers function like normal lightsabers, they're rather crudely built and may have problems, such as not being waterproof. (this explains Obi-Wan's saber shorting out in water in the deleted scene of Episode I. Perhaps Kyle used a Padawan saber in JO, since he couldn't use it in water either.) 3. Once becoming a full fledged Jedi Knight, he/she constructs a second lightsaber. Since the Jedi is more experienced at constructing lightsabers, their second one is more ornate and reliable. Unless the saber is destroyed or lost, it's the saber they'll use for the rest of their Jedi career. Note that these "rules" are not expected of every Jedi student, such as the fact that Jaden built his/her own lightsaber before starting Jedi training. They're considered as general guidelines to lightsaber training. However, we could consider Jaden's first lightsaber as his/her Padawan saber and Jaden's second one his/her "Jedi Knight" saber after the first one was destroyed by Tavion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Now for the color symbolism thing (probably BS but bear with me): Kyle's green saber. Borrowed from Yoda and given to Rahn, who passed it to Morgan who stashed it in WeeGee then Kyle found it. It's "green" because he's "new" in the Force. It also represents his "hope" for revenge (much like Luke's green saber may have represented his hope for redemption of his father). Kyle's Yellow Saber. Had it only for a brief time, it's "yellow" as a symbol of cowardice, because Yun wasn't brave enough to die, was weak to let himself be led by the Dark Jedi, and as a symbol of shame, leading him to sacrafice his own life to redeem himself. Carried by Kyle in his honor and used to defeat the supposedly superior (and strong willed) Dark Jedi. Used to carve out the faces of Rahn and Morgan Katarn on the walls of the Valley... resolution. Kyle's Orange Saber. Kyle is flirting with the Dark Side. So he made his saber orange to let everybody know that. Oops.. I mean, he thought it was a cool color. No wait, he liked cheeto's snacks a lot and... hmm. Maybe the crystals used to make orange sabers were common in the place he was at at the time. Ah well, in any case, it's a new color, yay! Kyle's Blue Saber. After rejecting the path of the Force, he made it just in case he ever decided to go back (and the orange saber was lost somehow) and he gave it to Luke. Or maybe Luke made him build a new one but his heart just wasn't in it. Blue representing his "true blue" nature, and a desire to return to the "unifying force" principles of the Jedi ideal... went well with his Bantha Herder outfit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Correct me if im wrong but the sabers the younglings are weaker sabers and could do no damage to metal objects, possibly burn the skin but not crop an arm off like a full saber can do which the older jedi use. That's a cool idea, but where does it come from? Source? (Sort of like the "saberstaff is a training saber" idea...) Just curious. It's from the Jedi Apprentice series. Apparently the training sabers do burn things, but don't cut them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontlikegeorge Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Kurgan: "When did they stop calling it an academy and start calling it a Praxeum? Just curious..." I think the Praxeum is the formal name of the facility, and "Jedi Academy" is more of a common name. Kind of like how Aristotle's academy was named the Lyceum or whatever. Personally, I consider the continuity to go like this: Kyle gets Qu Rahn's green saber from Weegee, Boc destroys it on Ruusan. He then uses Yun's yellow saber to finish off the Dark Jedi and free the Valley. Kyle then, most likely enshrines Yun's saber, considering he made a statue in honor of the young Jedi - in any case, it's unlikely he would have continued to use it. He then builds the orange saber sometime between JK and MotS - JK around 0 to 1 year after Endor, MotS around the clone Emperors campaign (5-7 years after Endor?). From different EU sources, during this time he joined the New Republic and became a special ops unit commander. I consider the MotS saber color to be somewhat apocryphal, since it was made before the scripture about Blue/Green/Purple color scheme - but also, being Orange, I feel it could be considered "borderline red" - which is good symbolism for what Kyle's character goes through during MotS. But because of that, I feel it was a MotS-period specific lightsaber. After MotS, since probably soon after Luke formed the Academy - wasn't it supposed to happen soon after the Clone Emperor's defeat? - and Kyle joined briefly, and perhaps built the Blue saber while there... then decided to abandon his Force training and live the life of the mercenary he once was. Also, considering how vague the time period of Jedi Outcast/Academy is, it could be anytime between the founding of the Academy, and the Zerg (oops I mean Vong) invasions. That's like what... ten, fifteen years? Just my thoughts on the subject, like it matters. I did wanna post this earlier this morning, but stupid Lucasforums wasn't working good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 considering how vague the time period of Jedi Outcast/Academy is. . . It's not vague at all. As I recall, the opening scroll-blurbs say pretty clearly that Outcast and Academy take place 8 and 10 years after ROTJ respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Final theory: Green = Lime Yellow = Banana Orange = Orange (duh) Blue = Blueberry His tastes simply changed over the years... *rimshot* ===================== Seriously though, as far as timeline considerations (*goes into meditation mode*) IIRC, this is how it stacks up: Dark Forces (begins before ANH, ends sometime before ROTJ, though possibly the final events could have taken place anytime between the end of ANH and 6 months before ROTJ). Jedi Knight: roughly 2 years after ROTJ. Mysteries of the Sith (5 years later): 7 years after ROTJ Jedi Outcast (8 years after battle of Endor, thus 1 year after MotS, 6 years after JK1): 8 years after ROTJ Jedi Academy (15 years after ANH, thus 1 year after JK2, 2 years after MotS, 7 years after JK1): 11 years after ROTJ* I could be wrong about this last one, I've read all kinds of stuff ranging from 10-12 years. The trouble is some people list it based on ANH, others based on ROTJ... though according to the Unofficial Starwars Compendium (made before the prequels) ANH to ROTJ takes place over a period of 4 years. In any case, JA definately takes place before the NJO. As to the "non canonical colors" remember that JK2 and JA did away with this (certain characters in both games have non movie colors, I think perhaps the restriction only applies to player characters in SP, then again, in JA you can choose any color but red until you go bad... go figure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontlikegeorge Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Yeah, there would be the ABY dating system, and the ABE system (after battle Yavin, Endor). I completely spaced out Jedi Outcast's opening text crawl... So yeah, I figured there was more time between MotS and JO... I mean, Luke talks like Kyle hadn't used the Force in years, but with this chronology it would have been months, or maybe a year... Anyway, I guess, if you don't like it, change the saber colors in the game! I guess as far as how the games expand the saber colors, well, I think it was thought to be an acceptable "bend" of LucasWORD, since it is a game environment first, and a SW universe story second. Personally, I don't see why lightsabers can't be other colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan When did they stop calling it an academy and start calling it a Praxeum? Just curious... ....Luke uses this term to describe the first 12(or so) students he had at the new academy on Yavin IV.... MTFBWYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 That's a cool idea, but where does it come from? Source? (Sort of like the "saberstaff is a training saber" idea...) Just curious. And anyway, if a little tyke Youngling builds a saber with a weaker power cell, isn't he still doing an amazing thing by building it in the first place? It would be sort of like somebody building a gun that can only shoot blanks... still quite a feat of engineering skill and craftsmanship. It's from an Episode 2 book i have, i think, or it's from another book. I can't really remember. The sabers aren't built by the Younglings, there "pre-made" already for training use, i'd guess Yoda would have made them or one of the council members. But the Training sabers of the JA timeframe, would be able to inflict damage, the older ways of Saber building for new padawans/students are lost, (the Jedi Temple would have been destroyed in EP3 - EP4 timeframe) So the students of lukes academy have to be more wary. IMHO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Originally posted by Tesla The sabers aren't built by the Younglings, there "pre-made" already for training use, i'd guess Yoda would have made them or one of the council members.... But the Training sabers of the JA timeframe, would be able to inflict damage, the older ways of Saber building for new padawans/students are lost, (the Jedi Temple would have been destroyed in EP3 - EP4 timeframe) So the students of lukes academy have to be more wary. IMHO of course. Yes, the training sabers of Ep2 are describes as you say in those DK Visual Dictinoaries. NO the younglings didnt make them, just in case KURGAN strolls in here with more Highlander 4 quotes .. In the EU,as I have described above, training sabers used at the Yavin academy, including by the younger students(eg the solo twins, alema rar) inflicted a sharp charge, sometimes a burn. Alema rars lost an arm after a poorly built and exploded(i think it was wither her saber, or jacen solos....) MTFWBYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrie Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Actually, that was Tenel Ka. In any case, I can vaguely remember reading somewhere that they originally meant kyle to have a yellow lightsaber in Mysteries of the Sith but were unable to due to some issue... something with pallete colors or the like. Can anyone back me up on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Originally posted by Burrie Actually, that was Tenel Ka. thx for the heads up ! I think this popped into my head because I Aleema Rar was just mentioend in TUF ; 21 books into the NJO, YJK novels are a bit fuzzy at the moment... MTFWBYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 In any case, I can vaguely remember reading somewhere that they originally meant kyle to have a yellow lightsaber in Mysteries of the Sith but were unable to due to some issue... something with pallete colors or the like. Can anyone back me up on this? I don't know about that, I thought that the saber mats (textures) used a universal pallete so there was never any problem. Though now that I think about it the only saber colors in MOTS SP were orange, red, and purple (JK has the whole kit 'n' kaboodle). Though both games had all the colors in MP. Again, maybe you have a point? Dunno... I have the prima Strategy Guide for JK1 (I got it not for strategy but for the behind the scenes stuff). I just wish I knew how to get the MotS one.. that would be neat to read about (if one was even written that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish_texan Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 1. Kyle keeps having the focusing crystals of his lightsaber stolen by theives. 2. Kyle makes sabers, uses them for a while, and then auctions them off to make money for the Jedi Academy (before that he had a private stash). He still skims off the top sometimes. 3. Kyle drops his saber in the mud a lot and it shorts out continously. 4. Jawas. 5. He fights a lot of sith, and sometimes the saber gets chopped in half. 6. Kyle compulsively changes his lightsaber color every year or so. 7. Where'd he put the damned thing? 8. Luke asked if he could borrow one, but ended up losing it. 9. Corran used the 'learn by taking apart and destroying' method. Kyle was not happy. 10. Sometimes, Kyle gets angry and bashes the saber hilt on his knee (Note, that is how Dooku got his saber curved). hahaha classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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