DarkLord60 Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 I just played the Demo And this sux really bad. I hated it I Immediately deleted it of my harddrive. This was definately not as good as the first one. Nuff said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Well I finished the demo now, tweaked it a little bit and I admit it's ok, but still... I miss some things from DX1... The inventory system is a lot smaller (although all items are 1 slot now) and the look and feel of the weapons is... odd... I find the graphics to look odd anyway, the characters, buildings etc... But I'm sure the final version will be a nice experience, although I doubt it'll be as addicting as DX1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by KBell @LeXX- I wasn't insulting him, just educating him on the subject O.o Calling someone a fool is an insult. If you want to get your point across, there are many ways to do it, none of which involve being rude. Be warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Please get back on topic There's a lot of mad people on the web now, mad about DX2 which is 99% completed... It looks and plays too much like an XBox port and I agree with them. Not only the interface, but the entire gameplay has been simplified, so that the poor XBox owners can play this game on their crappy controllers DX was meant to be played with mouse and keyboard, but now they made DX2 with a console in mind and a lot of great features from DX have been removed. Examples: - Every gun uses the same ammo, the last game I've seen this is Wolvenstein 3D Remember that in DX you had multiple kinds of ammo per gun - Leaning is removed - Reloading is removed --> now you can just run up to an enemy and blast him without even thinking tactically - 1-shot-kills and silent takedowns have been removed --> now you gave to shoot / stab / shock an enemy more times before he dies / knocks out - There's no need to 'hack' a security station / ATM anymore, no time limit, it just hacks it and downloads money. You can stay in the system for as long as you choose and there's absolutely NO skill involved. - The inventory system is changed. You can now carry an X amount of items no matter what the item is. That means: a huge flamethrower takes up the same amount of space as a freaking pack of cigarettes!! - The interface with skill system have been removed and replaced by a crappy HUD with HUGE txt. No skill system, no recorded conversation... Begins to look like a crappy Arcade game And besides that, the game runs jittery, has horrible character and weapon models (they look like, you guessed it, the console type), experiences mouselag etc etc... Sounds like Ion Storm was thinking a bit too much of MONEY when making this game, I DON'T WANT NO CRAPPY XBOX PORT!! I WANT A REAL GAME!! I want to sneak, reload, lean, hack, silently disable enemies... *sigh* Don't get me wrong; I think I'll enjoy DX2, but it will never give me the same great feeling DX did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrylic Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by leXX Calling someone a fool is an insult. If you want to get your point across, there are many ways to do it, none of which involve being rude. Be warned. OoOoOoO! KBell, you got BURNED! Anyways, I'm downloding it, its at 3%, and I have cable, but, for some reason, its going really slow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 You could have told me in PM LeXX instead of getting off topic Dunno why they made the game more complicated though, what with the less inventory space, more controls and clippy graphics.....but im still buying the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 That's two people now who have told me to get back on topic. Since when is a mod not supposed to warn someone in a thread? We can warn you wherever we damn well please. And, what gives you the right to tell anyone to get back on topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troopr-Undr-Fir Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by HertogJan Please get back on topic There's a lot of mad people on the web now, mad about DX2 which is 99% completed... It looks and plays too much like an XBox port and I agree with them. Not only the interface, but the entire gameplay has been simplified, so that the poor XBox owners can play this game on their crappy controllers DX was meant to be played with mouse and keyboard, but now they made DX2 with a console in mind and a lot of great features from DX have been removed. Examples: - Every gun uses the same ammo, the last game I've seen this is Wolvenstein 3D Remember that in DX you had multiple kinds of ammo per gun - Leaning is removed - Reloading is removed --> now you can just run up to an enemy and blast him without even thinking tactically - 1-shot-kills and silent takedowns have been removed --> now you gave to shoot / stab / shock an enemy more times before he dies / knocks out - There's no need to 'hack' a security station / ATM anymore, no time limit, it just hacks it and downloads money. You can stay in the system for as long as you choose and there's absolutely NO skill involved. - The inventory system is changed. You can now carry an X amount of items no matter what the item is. That means: a huge flamethrower takes up the same amount of space as a freaking pack of cigarettes!! - The interface with skill system have been removed and replaced by a crappy HUD with HUGE txt. No skill system, no recorded conversation... Begins to look like a crappy Arcade game And besides that, the game runs jittery, has horrible character and weapon models (they look like, you guessed it, the console type), experiences mouselag etc etc... Sounds like Ion Storm was thinking a bit too much of MONEY when making this game, I DON'T WANT NO CRAPPY XBOX PORT!! I WANT A REAL GAME!! I want to sneak, reload, lean, hack, silently disable enemies... *sigh* Don't get me wrong; I think I'll enjoy DX2, but it will never give me the same great feeling DX did... WEll I hope this is just in the demo, or I'll be pissed That's two people now who have told me to get back on topic. Since when is a mod not supposed to warn someone in a thread? We can warn you wherever we damn well please. And, what gives you the right to tell anyone to get back on topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by HertogJan It looks and plays too much like an XBox port and I agree with them. Not only the interface, but the entire gameplay has been simplified, so that the poor XBox owners can play this game on their crappy controllers I tend to agree. It feels very much like a console game that has been ported to PC. Right down to laggy movements, which can only be remedied at the moment by physically going into the .ini files and changing some values manually. Whoever put this game demo together certainly was not thinking at all about optimisation for the PC - and unfortunately, they were not thinking about tweaking the game interface for the PC...period. I hate the console look and feel of the UI, with text 10 feet tall. - Every gun uses the same ammo, the last game I've seen this is Wolvenstein 3D Remember that in DX you had multiple kinds of ammo per gun This is possibly one of the stupidest decisions they could possibly have made, and it sucks. As someone on the Ion Storm forums pointed out, it now means that when you run out of ammo using one gun...you can't even switch to another, because it uses the same ammo. This design decision is simply stupendously stupid. - Leaning is removed Another incredibly stupid decision, considering you are supposed to be able to sneak through the game without shooting anyone. How are you supposed to act in a covert way...when you have to walk around a crate to see what's on the other side? What an idiotic removal of a feature that for a game like this is essential. - Reloading is removed --> now you can just run up to an enemy and blast him without even thinking tactically I'm not so peeved about this. Having an effective auto-reload doesn't really bother me. - 1-shot-kills and silent takedowns have been removed --> now you gave to shoot / stab / shock an enemy more times before he dies / knocks out This I also noticed. Over on the Ion Storm forums, it was actually mentioned that someone shot a guard a couple of times in the head...then was able to walk up to them and start a conversation. Apparently, enemies can now absorb X amount of shots as 'friendly fire' before they turn hostile - according to the devs. WTF?!? This totally kills the gameplay style of the original game, and renders sneaky attacks utterly useless. And they consider this an improvement? - There's no need to 'hack' a security station / ATM anymore, no time limit, it just hacks it and downloads money. You can stay in the system for as long as you choose and there's absolutely NO skill involved. Again, I have to agree. According to the devs, you can see the status of something just by looking at it...so you can see if an object can be hacked, or if a door is locked, just by looking at it - and if you then 'use' it, it automatically starts to hack or unlock it. As you say...there's now no time limit, so no biting your nails trying to beat the clock when neutering security systems. - The inventory system is changed. You can now carry an X amount of items no matter what the item is. That means: a huge flamethrower takes up the same amount of space as a freaking pack of cigarettes!! I have no problem with the inventory using 'slots' for items - but I do have a problem with the number of slots available. With careful management, I seem to recall I could carry more in the original DX than I can in this demo version of the sequel. It does mean you have to be more selective about what you carry, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I don't mind having a limited weapon or equipment loadout. - The interface with skill system have been removed and replaced by a crappy HUD with HUGE txt. No skill system, no recorded conversation... Begins to look like a crappy Arcade game It's certainly not as 'detailed' as the original. The huge text is very annoying, I agree, and definitely shows it's console origins. And yes, I do mean that in the context that this game just looks like a console port. The interface etc. has simply not been revised at all to make it more suitable for the PC, and this is something I would have expected with such a high-profile title. It's clear to me the X-Box has been the key development platform for this title, in terms of the interface, and the 'dumbing down' that inevitably goes hand-in-hand with restrictive controller settings. This is one of the things that I was worried would happen, and it's a shame to see that worry realised. And besides that, the game runs jittery, has horrible character and weapon models (they look like, you guessed it, the console type), experiences mouselag etc etc... The mouselag seems to be the main problem. It still has the 'console feel' of movement and looking around. As I said, this can partially be addressed by fiddling with the .ini files, and simply shows that whoever threw this demo together simply wasn't thinking at all about optimising performance for the PC. Or perhaps they use a gamepad with their PC, and are so used to playing console games they didn't notice a difference. As for the character and weapon models, I didn't mind them at all. I didn't expect ground-breaking or even 'realistic' graphics for this game. Don't get me wrong; I think I'll enjoy DX2, but it will never give me the same great feeling DX did... [/b] Ditto. Unless they decide to add extra features for the PC in a patch (like putting leaning back in etc.), then this game simply cannot beat it's predecessor, even if the story is excellent. The original Deus Ex was fully geared up for sneaky behaviour - and DX2 was supposed to take that to the next level with it's better lighting mechanics. However, you can't improve on something by stripping out necessary features. The only reason that I can see for features to be removed was due to the limitations of a console's controller. I will certainly miss the 'skill' system from DX. Warren Spector should have kept a tighter rein on this title, instead of pretty much handing it over to someone else to develop. The only other problem I had with the demo is that it kept crashing to desktop when changing levels, and there seemed to be a lot of unnecessary screen-swapping going on. Most of the time it didn't crash, but I still kept seeing glimpses of the desktop...and that can start to kill the immersion factor. I hope the full game doesn't suffer from this. All I need now is for someone to tell me the full game takes 5 hours to complete...and I think I'll tear someone's head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLord60 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by leXX That's two people now who have told me to get back on topic. Since when is a mod not supposed to warn someone in a thread? We can warn you wherever we damn well please. And, what gives you the right to tell anyone to get back on topic? Well not to get off topic I just want to make one quick comment. I am an Administrator at the AOTCTC forums and I am constantly getting after people for the same thing. Lexx, no I am not sucking up to you or trying to start a war here with others but I just want to say you handled that well and there is nothing wrong with that. As for the Demo I am glad I downloaded it because I played it I don't like it and therefore I will not buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Lighten up people, seriously. . And, what gives you the right to tell anyone to get back on topic Um, the freedom of speech Anyways, nice point about the XBox port, maybe that explains some of the akwardness (sp) towards the movements of the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_One Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Yet another promising game has become "consolised". Being an ISDN user, I get a limited number of online hours per month. I'm very pissed off I wasted so many downloading this. I have a behemoth PC that runs every game amazingly This game runs like an absolute dog. Once you start turning things down to increase performance, it looks like a dog too. Being used to playing games that look good, and feel good too, this was really painful to play. The actual gameplay was not enjoyable at all, for reasons others have specified. Anyway, I have never, ever done this before, but I did with this demo - I gave up half way through. The whole experience was so unenjoyable I just didn't want to play anymore. And I haven't touched it since. Well done Ion Storm, for ruining what could have been such a brilliant game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Dont come to conclusions so fast, this is just sort of a Teaser for the full version. But alot of people are having the same feelings as you right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Well the game isn't THAT bad, I mean I still enjoyed the conversations and the greasel fight and it did gave me a little bit of DX feeling... Unfortunately with everything you do and see in DX2, you notice things that could've been done a million times better... If they improve the things I mentioned this might just become the best game ever... *sigh* But the game is nearly finished so don't get your hopes up. So far I've only heard rumors about Ion Storm saying the locational (sp?) damage will be fixxed, so headshots will count... Oh and leXX: That's two people now who have told me to get back on topic. Since when is a mod not supposed to warn someone in a thread? We can warn you wherever we damn well please. And, what gives you the right to tell anyone to get back on topic? I wasn't serious about the 'stay on topic' remark, it was meant as a funny way to get back to the discussion I'd like to have in this thread... I've been anticipating DX2 ever since I've finished DX and I want to give my opinion about the game! I thought you'd see that it wasn't meant seriously. I put two smilies there after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 sorry about starting a new thread Lexx i did look honest, and of course i spotted this thread the instant i had posted the other one... I can't play it of course, as it would take a few years to download, but im really not liking what i am hearing... (no leaning, 1 ammo type, no hacking). The basic storyline and freedom will be great as usual i expect, but if they have taken out half of the stealth mechanics and the hacking machanics then what will it matter if you are free to choose any method you like... stealth and hacking routes won't be varied or fun, so why choose them. Everyone will just end up going through in combat mode. Some simplification sounds like a great idea (such as having all food take up one slot, rather than different food in different slots taking up half your inventory), and having upgrade/mod canisters combined. but no leaning, no reloading, very limited weapon upgrades, no hacking time limits and so on just removes about 50% of the stuff i enjoyed in the first one. the xbox wrecks yet another pc game...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by toms sorry about starting a new thread Lexx i did look honest, and of course i spotted this thread the instant i had posted the other one... That's ok, don't worry about it. the xbox wrecks yet another pc game...? The xbox isn't to blame here, the devs are. They are the ones that can't be bothered to do a proper job of the PC version, the xbox has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by leXX The xbox isn't to blame here, the devs are. They are the ones that can't be bothered to do a proper job of the PC version, the xbox has nothing to do with it. I mostly agree ... but the bottom line is sales. Let's face it - how many PC games have been in the top 20 of sales this year ... hmmm .... NONE. All XBox and PS2 and GC. So devs choose the LCD - lowest common denominator. Things that don't easily translate cross-platform are dropped. They make sure it works for the XBox, then make it prettier and make the mouse / keyboard controls work for the PC. I will still buy the game, and have little doubt it will be worth the $50. But as I read this thread I am less and less excited ... and less hopeful it will displace any of the Star Wars games in my 'top 5' ... or even the original Deus Ex or NWN in the 6/7 spots ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by KBell Um, the freedom of speech And what makes you think you have freedom of speech on this privately owned forum? Amazing when people just won't own up to what they did, no matter the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by txa1265 I will still buy the game, and have little doubt it will be worth the $50. But as I read this thread I am less and less excited ... and less hopeful it will displace any of the Star Wars games in my 'top 5' ... or even the original Deus Ex or NWN in the 6/7 spots ... I agree entirely, however the more i read this thread the more i am wanting to install Deus Ex and mod up some cool weapons and sneak around in the dark, leaning around corners and headshotting people. I didn't think XBOX had that big of a market. I may be wrong, but i would have thought that compared to the PS2/GBA market it was pretty small. Bigger than PC i guess, but not by enough to justify completely neutering the game. What i don't get is that when they specifically develop games for several platforms from the start (rather than porting them across later like Halo) you would think they could make slightly different versions that each play to the strengths of that platform. Rather than taking out anythign that plays to the strengths of either platform and making something that only works on the common features of each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by toms I didn't think XBOX had that big of a market. I may be wrong, but i would have thought that compared to the PS2/GBA market it was pretty small. Bigger than PC i guess, but not by enough to justify completely neutering the game. Well, look at it this way. Halo sold over a million units on the X-Box alone. So there is obviously a huge potential market out there for X-Box titles, if the gameplay appeals to the majority. Also, console titles always have inflated prices compared to their PC counterparts. In the UK, an X-Box title is, on average, £40, while I can get the same game on PC for anything between £25-30. So if you sell a lot of X-Box games, you get more money. What i don't get is that when they specifically develop games for several platforms from the start (rather than porting them across later like Halo) you would think they could make slightly different versions that each play to the strengths of that platform. Rather than taking out anythign that plays to the strengths of either platform and making something that only works on the common features of each. But that's just it...spending more time on making it PC-centric takes more time, and resources...and money. The more you spend on making two platform-centric versions...the less your profit margin at the end of the day. Warren Spector's personal view may be that the money isn't as important as making a "great game"...but I guess not everyone agrees with that. When the Ion Storm devs start saying that they 'didn't have enough time to complete X feature' to their satisfaction, then it reeks of them being pushed (bullied) by the publisher into meeting a specific deadline and within a specific budget. Well...I totally expect the game to do very well on the X-Box platform. I don't expect it do as well on the PC platform...but then in recent years some gamers seem more concerned about the graphics, and not about the actual gameplay, so who knows? If a mediocre game like Enter The Matrix can sell like hot cakes, then I guess we deserve whatever the devs want to dish up these days. Quality just seems to have taken a nosedive. And if that sounds cynical...you bet it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 I think that Halo has sold ~3 million copies for the XBox. As for Enter the Matrix, proof that anyone going around pumping the Matrix while complaining about Jar Jar and Lucas and selling out just doesn't get it ... The funny thing, as a Mac & PC user (who would rather use a Mac game since the laptops are so much nicer), this whole PC/XBox thing is the PC->Mac thing all over again. Reverse the 'developed first for ...', then mess with the interface 'standards', then delay ports, then drop ports ... oh well ... Any clue of how long this game is supposed to be? I'll probably still be playing KotOR then ... 26 hours in, 3rd planet ... I don't know how people finish it so quickly and actually get enjoyment ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_One Posted November 25, 2003 Author Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by leXX The xbox isn't to blame here, the devs are. They are the ones that can't be bothered to do a proper job of the PC version, the xbox has nothing to do with it. Yes, but if the X Box didn't exist, we wouldn't have this problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuRaSaMuNe Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I found some .ini fixes from actiontrip.com; MouseLagThreshold=0 - set mouselagthreshold to 0, it's set by something like 75 by default. CacheSizeMegs=30 - set this to at least 30; the original value is way to low for PC's For maximum visual quality, paste this over your current D3D settings in the Default.ini: [D3DDrv.D3DRenderDevice] Translucency=True VolumetricLighting=True ShinySurfaces=True Coronas=True HighDetailActors=True UseMipmapping=True UseTrilinear=True UseMultitexture=True UsePageFlipping=True UsePalettes=False UseFullscreen=False UseGammaCorrection=True DetailTextures=True Use3dfx=False UseTripleBuffering=True UsePrecache=True Use32BitTextures=True UseComputedRefreshRate=False UseManualRefreshRate=False ManualRefreshRateHz=75 I haven't tried them yet because I deleted the demo yesterday and I've been busy with KOTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I found the Greesle fights and the dialoge to be pretty engaging, so that's always an upside towards the quiality of the storyline. But gameplay is definetly going to be a breaking point in DX2 is it can't get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by KBell I found the Greesle fights and the dialoge to be pretty engaging, so that's always an upside towards the quiality of the storyline. The dialogue was mostly okay...but c'mon, the Greasel fights were kind of boring. Two mutant chickens spitting green gobs at each other... Dare I say it...but the mine crabs going at it in the pit in the cantina in Jedi Outcast was a tad more interesting... O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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