Cheating and illegal alterations on Online games

[TheHobGoblin]

I need a bit of a break from polotics, so I just found something that can be considered as a Serious Discussion, http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/personal_technology/8133358.htm

 

It's about online cheating and how it ruins almost every Online game out there. I find this very big problem in the enjoyment of playing a game. Take Aliens versus Predator 2 for example, aside from actual cheating people take to much advantage of the "Stagger fire glitch" where you click your mouse quickly and shoot once to shoot like a super bullet. I see this in almost every server. Most cheating is caused by the personality of the person playing. You RARELY find anyone who has some class. If your lucky you'll get a good game with good people. Most people on RTCW Enemy Territory usual say "Panzer noob" Which means they just got killed with a panzerfruast (rocket luancher) Mean while I played using a panzerfruast, it's pretty tough work. Also the ocasional Aimbot. The guy uses a pistol yet hits you a mile away. I play alot of games less and less everyday, sometimes I'm forced to play single player because of the cheaters and hackers. Half the time the company doesn't even lift a finger to help.

[SkinWalker]

I think you last line hits the nail right on the head. It's the company that's ultimately responsible.

 

I don't play games beyond the Jedi Knight series, particularly in multiplayer mode, but it seems to me that if people are able to cheat so readily, then it must be the fault of the code.

 

The only thing close to "cheating" that I've seen in the Jedi Knight series is use of "Admin Empowerment." On one occasion, the guy that was empowered kept kicking my ass, but I was making it tough for him. He and I were the only two on the server and I actually found it an interesting challenge. There was no attempt to hide the fact that he was "cheating" and he even stated that he was just screwing around.

 

But I had no idea that cheating was so prevalent in other multiplayer games... I thought "aimbots" were a myth. They actually have these?

 

I have more respect for Raven's work with Jk2 and JA then...

[lukeiamyourdad]

Aimbots do exist. I've stopped playing Unreal Tournament because of them.

I've also seen in BF1942, some guy hitting me with a Thompson(sub-machine gun for the non-WWII shooters fanatics) a mile away while my rifle(which is a LOT more accurate) doesn't hit him(it was a Japanese Type 5 by the way).

 

My main gripe is that these cheaters make us good players look bad. I can easily get 40 kills in any game without cheating. It only takes practice but it's a shame cheaters don't take the time to get better. They prefer the faster way(the Dark Side ).

 

I can't believe the article mentionned PunkBuster. That crap works for two weeks max. After that, people just go around it.

 

Anyway, I can work my way around them. I've killed a lot more cheaters then they've killed me. Hopefully, I'm good enough to keep up(as long as I have a ping 60 under, over that the reaction times slows down and you get the picture).

 

By the way, the Panzerfaust DOES suck in Wolf:ET. So easy to dodge the blast...

[Kain]

Online gaming cheating has taken from me the wanton to play online (which is why none of YOU will EVER see ME in a JK2 server). Now I'll only play with people I've known for FOREVER (only in some games, ie games I played online before getting sick of the cheating ****) or over a LAN.

 

Cheaters are SOOOOOO lame too. If you kill them, they get all pissed, but when they kill you, they start going 'HAHA!! I'm da 1337 player eva! stupid n00b! hahahaha'. Yea, real 1337(what does 1337 mean anyways?) CTRL+ALT+DEL did a comic making fun of these people, but I can't get onto the site or I'd post the link.

 

Damn cheaters...

[TheHobGoblin]

Aimbots are real, in RTCW Enemy Territory I was kind of hard to spot from the otherside, I was on a small ledge with plenty of cover and only a bit me sticking out (I was laying down on the ground so it even made it tougher) I had my M1 Garand (Standard American Rifle modified with a Scope and a scilencer) When I had him for a head shot the guy fires one bullet from a MP40 (Their sub macinegun with no scope) and shoots my cap off, I go for another shoot, he kills me, I tried again, samething. It's that these people never want to learn some actual non-cheating tatics, I always have a great game when there is nobody cheating. Yet you always have a guy on a server who has 400 kills, 0 deaths, and always seems to be a step ahead of you. Though Aimbot in Quake III's railgun games are most common, Good aiming skills can steal beat them. Just got to be super quick.

Also I hate being accused of cheating just because I really know how to play. Samething on Starcraft, the maphacking destroys the element of surprise. They always know what your doing and then build something to counter it. The only side program that doesn't really cheat is tye Allies Alert Where it tells you if someone turned off their Ally box, most BS (Backstabbers) Just turn off their ally but not there vision, so you would think their still on your side. Diablo has had it's shares of bad alterations. Such as the maphack, which PKs (Playerkillers) usually use, or "iths" A super strong item, altered by a hacked rune, or something like that (I never looked into those) Blizzard did do something, they mad the 1.10 patch the only problem is the monsters are way to strong for my lvl 87 paladin, My maxed out salvations with a couple of extra points from items only help me survive about 5 seconds from magic attacks. lvl 24 Salvation I think, my resistence would read

Fire:95

Cold:90

Lightning:90

Poision:90

 

I still get own3d with a "3". But at least they took action, unlike most companies. Punkbuster never helps really because people can just get in with a thousand hacks, and Punkbuster will do nothing, just like most companies.

 

Oh, Btw best way to make the Panzer useful is do be almost suicidal with it, I would survive with half life and used up all my rockets.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by Kain

(what does 1337 mean anyways?)

 

 

1337 = 'leet = elite.

 

 

I almost never have cheaters when I play online, because I dont play online.

 

 

pretty much the only game I engage online is Age of Kings, which is mostly cheat-proof.

[Druid_Allanon]

Cheating does indeed take the fun out of a particular game, especially when you are online.

 

Those admin mods in JA MP are also in some form of cheat too. Take for example, empowerment. Last time, I was in a certain server, there was this empowered dude who kept laming everyone who came up the stairs in the siege map Ragnos. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't break free of his grip because his empowerment enabled him protection from Force. I didn't really mind that, but what really pissed me off was that he jeered at me and said 'SO EZ'. That just made me even more determined to kill him, and I did, though not as much as he killed me. Still, it was fun.

 

This just goes to show that it can be quite fun and challenging to engage a cheater.

[Kain]

The last game I played online - not LAN - was Neverwinter Nights. Theres a bit of brightness on an otherwise dark online gaming world[/sarcasm]. Seriously, that game is SO easy to cheat in, and people think they're soooooo badass when they kill you with their +17 +50d6everyelementanditsmother sword and you can't hurt them because of their +20 700%immunitytoeverythinganditsmother armor and shield. Then when you call em out(in any game) on the fact that they must be f'ing loosers in order to learn how to do that crap, they just say that you're too much of a looser to find the stuff, and with their bullheadedness, they'll be damned if they get proven wrong. And if you do hurt their feelings, all they do is kill you over and over and over and over and over.

 

But the saddest, most pathetic, utterly useless company I've EVER seen deal with an online game was White Wolf with Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption. Dear lord that game'll make you loose faith in anyone being worthwhile online. WW and Activision released 1(count em, ONE) patch for the game so you could save whenever, and they said **** em. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many hackers, cheaters, and other lamers. Its gotten so bad, people who play it developed anti-crasher programs(people would stack their characters with like 5000 of every item and enter your game, lagging it until it crashed). Not even the cheaters are safe from the other cheaters. I've seen every god-item get beaten by another god-item and that one beaten again. I guess its good that there are players out there with enough skill to mod the hell out of a game like they did Vampire, BUT DAMN!

 

Moral of my little story - Cheaters are bad and they refuse to accept it.

 

Okay, end of my rant.

[TheHobGoblin]

Most of the fans cheat, but they're some who actually amke those anti-cheat programs, Which can be a help.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Offline cheat codes are actually quite fun.

 

Not all fans cheat. True fans of a game never cheat online.

[Kain]

I've come to the conclusion that hardcore cheaters may have come from bad backgrounds(where they were beaten and utterly powerless and the like), thus they express their want for power by dominating where they can, ie: in games against real people.

 

Just a theory.

[TheHobGoblin]

Originally posted by Kain

I've come to the conclusion that hardcore cheaters may have come from bad backgrounds(where they were beaten and utterly powerless and the like), thus they express their want for power by dominating where they can, ie: in games against real people.

 

Just a theory.

Very well said,

 

I mean I've owned people before on a game for example I was in a 1vs1 in DooM II and he had a BFG I had that stupid pistool, and still shot him down, then just kept killing over and over again. There is that feeling of total dominance, yet when people always want that feeling, they usually revert to cheating.

 

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad

Offline cheat codes are actually quite fun.

 

Not all fans cheat. True fans of a game never cheat online.

Of course everyone loves to play with the offline cheats, yet on Aliens versus Predator a majority of the people cheat. I would normally ignore this yet the thing is they have such a tendacy to act like an ass, and trash talk. So obviously as Kain stated that game must be the only real place where they have the feeling of Dominance.

[lukeiamyourdad]

An interesting theory. True to some extend. I've "met" cheater in every day life and they were not utterly powerless and beaten like the common "geeky cheater" stereotype. They were guys that could easily kick my ass. They're just acting like jerks...

[Kain]

Power trips are another reason for cheating in my theory. Everyone has power trips, but some people can find outlets for them. Those people make up a percentage of cheaters online. Once they get going, they don't know when to quit, and instead of doing it to their friends (assuming they have any), they load up their fave FPS, RPG, or other MMORPG, kick up the maphacks and aimbots, load the god-mods, and find you playing legit. They then proceed to click you and you die, then taunt you.

 

God I hate them bastards.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by Kain

then taunt you.

 

THAT is the worst part about it. I could get over the fact that they're pathetic enough that they think cheating is somehow entertaining and that there is enjoyment from letting the computer do the work for you. But when they rub it in your face I seriously just want to rip out their motherboards and beat them to death with it.

 

Maybe a bit of an exaggeration but still.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Hey I want to round them up, pour some gas on them and burn them. You're far from that.

[TheHobGoblin]

I know some people who didn't cheat, then got them to get back at a cheater, then got a little to use to it

[acdcfanbill]

your kidding me that ppl cheat in AvP2? i loved that game, cleaned up online whent he first mpdemo came out, and i played the SP but i only play mp every few months. whenever i do i start out crappy, but usually end up in the top3 of all the tdm matches. if ppl seriously cheat, its hilarious that it doesnt help that much. btw i alwasy play pred cause they rule

[toms]

I'm mystified as to what these people actually get out of it. I'm much more of a single player, but my few online experiences have already brought me face to face with cheaters. It ruins my fun, but surely it ruins theirs too?

 

The only time i use cheats in single player is for a quick blast of fun (like 1 minute tops) or if i happen to quicksave myself into a corner where i keep dying. But it isn't FUN, so i can't see it would be online either.

 

They have been talking about Splinter Cell:PT on xbox:live on Penny Arcade, and how (even though there are no hacks) people just cut the connection if they are loosing and how annoying it is.

Their solution was to make a "buddy list" on the forums so that they knew the people who they were playing with were cool. People who cut the connection got removed from the list.

 

It's a shame it has come to this. I've been hanging around on a MMORPG board and anytime ANYONE makes a cool suggestion there are always people popping up saying how it can't be implemented because it would be abused. If people just played the right way then they could implement all these cool features and the games would be 100 times better.

[ShockV1.89]

A younger brother of a friend of mine, who lives just down the street, was using cheats on a UT game that me and my buddy were hosting. He wasn't even hiding it. I left my character in the corner in the server, got up, walked down the street, went into his house and upstairs, and pulled the plug out of his cpu.

 

Oh, that felt good.

[CapNColostomy]

What pisses me off more than cheaters are people who accuse people of it, just because they're getting their asses handed to them. That's always the first thing you hear if you kill someone a few times in a row. "OMFG", or "Turn off your hax" or some other crap. Nobody wants to be a loser, but that's what they're reduced to the instant they accuse people of cheating. I know cheating really happens, but I seldom see it. And I've NEVER done it. But I've had this happen a gazillion times in the Delta Force series, Call of Duty, and once or twice in the Battlefield games. Very annoying.

[Doomie]

I don't even want to cheat online. It's lame. It takes all the sport out of it. anyone can win a swimming competion with a jetboat. Same thing with cheaters. 'HAHA my 1337 cheatz and hax of invul and god and infinite ammo and stuff kicks ur @$$ bizatch!' And they're even proud of it.

 

Oh, i remember, me and my friends always have LAN-parties with MOTS, and i had discovered the force-power persuasion, wich renders me practiccally invisible for some time. So i sabered them and they cam running down: 'turn that cheat off!' everytime i devise a good strategy with that game, they find it unfair. it's just stupid.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Taunting and flaming is the worst part, yes.

 

This guy was suspected of cheating in Desert Combat (a free third-party expansion pack for Battlefield 1942), and just answered "everyone's crying cheat when someone's just plain better". The accusation was that the plane he was flying killed with a weapon it's not supposed to have, and the accusation was made by a person who use that plane a lot (Battlefield 1942 is heavily vehicle-driven).

 

In fact, insults can really ruin a good game.

 

Oh, and cheaters cheat because it makes the game easier. Simple as that. I think it's the same as downloading files using Kazaa: It's just too simple for those who do it to resist. And once you're hooked on cheats, you don't dare stop using them because you know you'll lose.

[ShockV1.89]

DC mixes up its weapons and vehicles alot, especially when it comes to aircraft. My favorite helicopter, the Soviet Scout chopper (forget the name), can come with either rocket pods, cannon pods, or nothing. The cannon pod one is rare, and I've been screamed at on more than one occasion when the person I smoked didn't know it came in that flavor.

 

That's just funny.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

It's randomized? Never mind, then:p.

 

Anyways, let's get back on topic.

 

PunkBuster is at least trying. And it's very widespread (in Battlefield 1942, for example, you can host games where nobody can join unless they have PunkBuster activated).

 

Still, yes, there's probably cheating. What I find more annoying, though, are griefers who don't use cheats but do things like camp with a sniper rifle at peoples' spawn points, take a large transport vehicle all by themselves (leaving their team mates behind), or camping at their home base the whole game to take a helicopter (prefferably a transport one) for then to crash it.

Come on, if you can't even fly the thing, why do you have to take it instead of someone who can fly it? And what kind of idiots take a "Humvee" (don't know how to spell that) and drive off alone when the thing can hold a gunner (manning a bazooka) and several passengers (I think up to three, in addition to any climbing onto the roof, going prone, and trying hold on:D).

 

I've lost count of how many times I've seen a vehicle leave five people behind to walk to their destination (and then when the driver crashes, the hypocrite spams the game with the "I need transportation over here!" wave file hot key until he gets shot).

 

I'd rather those people went out and fought with AimBots (with or against me) than that they ruined the game for everyone else like that.

 

From experience, though, I can say "camping" can be a bit fun. I was at a small LAN centre about a block away from my house playing Battlefield [Viet Nam] against my brothers in a game with bots. I'd crawl up on this bridge and snipe whoever spawned at the American home base until my brother shot me. I did it just for fun (and to show my brother that you could climb onto those support overhangs over bridges) and didn't repeat it after that. But the point is, I wouldn't have done it to win. I wouldn't have done it to people I don't know.

 

Dagobahn Eagle