Dark Forces 2 Mod

[Sir Vougalot]

Eh, Jedi Knight Kyle has a special place in my heart. When I think of Kyle Katarn, I automatically think of Jason Court. (That's the actor's name, by the way.) As for the best voice actor, I think the Jedi Outcast/Jedi Academy Kyle is deffinately the best. Boy, I wish we could have Court in the cutscenes with the other guy's voice. Too bad you guys can't recruit that guy for voice acting, due to legalities, money, and the like.

 

EDIT: I'm not opposed to new in-game cutscenes, as long as they are in addition to the existing cutscenes, rather than in place of them. An example would be an in-game cutscene with Kyle walking into the central tower to consume the power (dark side ending) in between your final blow that kills Jerec and the cutscene of Kyle and Sariss flying to Imperial Palace on Corescant in a shuttle at the end. (I have many more ideas for new scenes. This is just one of them.)

[jedispy]

I guess I stand alone here. I think that the original cinematics were cheap and sad. Jason Court is the only one who was a decent actor. The actress who played Jan couldn't act her way out of a paper bag. As stated earlier in this thread, we could all too easily see past the Maw mask (note his "inner jaw"). Honestly, it looks like just another fan film that I could find on theforce.net (although some of those fan films are dang good!). The CGI that was used in the original doesn't look remotely real/believable. Minilogoguy18 or LightNinja could do far better and they aren't "professionals." The gran henchman in the beginning talks, but the cheap halloween mask that they use doesn't even have moving lips.

 

In my opinion (and that's exactly what it is, just my opinion) use the original cinematics only as a last resort. Get your models/maps/scripting done first, and then come back in the end and make some awesome in-game cinematics.

 

Anyway, I don't mean to make a huge point out of it. It's your mod, not mine. Like I said above, I'd rather just get to the shootin' and saberin'!!

 

So are you guys thinking you will change anything about your version of the game, or do you want to try to recreate it play for play? I mean are the force powers going to be identical, or are you going to change it up? What I mean is, will you have lightsaber throw? (JK didn't have lightsaber throw. That came later in MOTS). Will force push target only one item like in JK, or will you make it like JA where it pulls anything (and everything) in sight?

 

As for music, do you think you'll just keep it to the original trilogy like the original JK, or will you venture into the prequels?

[Sir Vougalot]

The actress who played Jan couldn't act her way out of a paper bag.

But she sure was great eye candy.

The CGI that was used in the original doesn't look remotely real/believable. Minilogoguy18 or LightNinja could do far better and they aren't "professionals."

Then maybe they should put their skills to work and pull a "George Lucas" by touching up the bad effects in the original cutscenes to make them look more believable.

The gran henchman in the beginning talks, but the cheap halloween mask that they use doesn't even have moving lips.

Perhaps the afore-mentioned persons can either edit his mouth with CGI effects so that it moves, or replace the Gran with a CGI model altogether.

As for music, do you think you'll just keep it to the original trilogy like the original JK, or will you venture into the prequels?

Naw. Although it would be cool, it's from the wrong era. All Star Wars music is era-specific. (With the exceptions of the main theme, the Imperial March, and a few other Saga-spanning melodies.)

[X-Vector]

In my opinion (and that's exactly what it is, just my opinion) use the original cinematics only as a last resort. Get your models/maps/scripting done first, and then come back in the end and make some awesome in-game cinematics.

 

The original CGI cinematics are cheesy, but they do add a particular atmosphere to the game and I love the Nar Shaddaa flythrough.

As far as I'm concerned, it's still a hundred times better than JO's in-game animated scenes (JO's intro is simply horrible).

 

I mean are the force powers going to be identical, or are you going to change it up? What I mean is, will you have lightsaber throw? (JK didn't have lightsaber throw. That came later in MOTS). Will force push target only one item like in JK, or will you make it like JA where it pulls anything (and everything) in sight?

 

I hope they'll keep it like the original.

Saber throw could perhaps be added, but I'm not sure if this won't upset the balance in the fights against the Dark Jedi (for instance, that pesky Boc might get easier to hit).

 

As for music, do you think you'll just keep it to the original trilogy like the original JK, or will you venture into the prequels?

 

The music adds so much to the feel of Jedi Knight that it would be a crime to replace it, especially with anything that is related to that prequel travesty.

[Sir Vougalot]

Hey, what happened to my last post?

[MikeGunther1969]

The music adds so much to the feel of Jedi Knight that it would be a crime to replace it, especially with anything that is related to that prequel travesty.

 

I think Mixing in musical elements from all 6 movies may be good here. As bad as episodes One and Two may be to some folks, (Not in my opinion though...They are STAR WARS and I dug them just as much). The BEST THING about the prequels was the MUSIC. It is classic John Williams SW themes mixed in with some new stuff that sounds killer!! The Battle Droid themes, the Naboo Escape, the POD RACE, and DOTF from EP1 are great and should be must haves for any MOD. EP2....not as much, most of the recycled EP1 music is good, but EP3......very dark, dangerous, serious "oh s#@t I'm in trouble" music for DF, JK, MOTS, SOTE, JO, or JA games, MODS, etc... I say include music from the whole saga if you can. Prequel music has been inserted in MODS already (JK and MOTS MODS), and if used properly, works well.

[Sir Vougalot]

Although I am against the use of prequel music since it is from the wrong era, it could fit better with some of the boss battle better than the existing music. Like, can you picture the battle with Jerec accompanied by Duel of the Fates or The Battle of Heroes? Badass, I say.

 

EDIT: On second thought, Duel of the Fates would be appropriate for the battle with Jerec. Save The Battle of Heroes for Mysteries of the Sith, with the fight between Kyle and Mara. it fits better.

[jedispy]

I don't worry about the era thing. It's all Star Wars baby!! Of course, I doubt I would want to use any music from the Ewok Adventure movies.

In our mod, we're going to use music from all over. I have the SOTE soundtrack, but I'm not exclusively using music from that. In SOTE, there will be a battle with a huge droid called the gladiator. I'm using Grievous' theme for that fight. It is INTENSE and will fit in well.

 

I agree with Zerimar Nyliram, battle of the heroes would be excellent for a duel between Kyle and Mara. Of course....anyone who's beaten MOTS knows that

the way to beat Kyle is to switch off the lightsaber. He will not attack, and the game will end

So I don't know how worth while it will be. Perhaps one can use that song in the Mara vs. Dark Mara duel on Dromund Kass.

 

Oh well, Neither here nor there. I like the idea of Kyle having his own music. If only you knew someone with a good synthesizer to compose some new SW music just for Kyle.

 

Oh well. Dreaming is one thing. Getting the mod done is something else altogether.

[Sir Vougalot]

I like to fight Kyle for a while before I do that thing you mentioned, and I would imagine that many others do as well.

[SlicerDude]

Oh well, Neither here nor there. I like the idea of Kyle having his own music. If only you knew someone with a good synthesizer to compose some new SW music just for Kyle.

 

There already exists some SW music just for Kyle, in the DF soundtrack. It's too bad that they started just tossing in random music from the movies after that, but if we got a good composer to write something new for JK, I'd be all for it, especially if they drew on the themes from DF's music. Lots of fanfilms have original music, some of it very good, so it should be possible for a mod.

[Bomberman65]

Man all these ideas sound really kool i hope they do some of them but i prefer the music they have in the original JK for the battle with Jerec but the idea of Kyle having his own theme made would be sweet. Keep up the good work and where r those new screenshots i want to c how u've done the Yun level.

[DarkStarMojo]

Whoa. Too many posts to absorb at once. Where to begin...?

 

Well, for one thing, the flyby sequence in the first Nar Shadda cutscene will be a beeyotch to animate, especially since it's one of those scenes that are so well done I'd like to keep it the same. Oh, well. As of now I'm not doing any cutscenes so I'll let someone else worry about that.

 

As for music, I think the original soundtracks are going to remain in place. The only exception to this MIGHT be Jerec. Personally, the music they used seems kind of anti-climactic, especially when you compare it to the final duel between Kyle and Desaan which was more dramatic than it needed to be (still cool, though). I'll see if I can twist Shamus' arm in this respect but I don't know what theme we should use.

 

As for Force powers, I don't think any of the abilities that were present in JK are going to behave any different in our mod than they do in JA. But the "new" JK powers just HAVE to be added. We really can't do without. Force Push and Saber Throw are musts. I understand people who want to keep things true to the original but they really are such integral parts of the JA gameplay format that eliminating them would most likely be detrimental to the mod. Sorry to burst any of you pursits' bubbles.

[DARTH JOKER]

I, like a few other people have sade. keep the original cutscenes. there is just somthing about Real people that make it more beleavable. i dodn't Ihink there that cheesy. (if you want cheesy play the original resident evil, although the cutsceanes in that game where cheesy on perpous) i wish some of todays games would use real people in there cutscenes. the only new game i can think of with real people is a game that wasn't worth the time it took to make, Enter the matrix.

[jedispy]

...but I don't know what theme we should use.

<COUGH!!!>Battle of the heroes <COUGH!!!>

 

As for the flight scenes, you could edit those into new cinematics.

 

As for Force powers...Sorry to burst any of you purists' bubbles.

Honestly, I think that the force powers should be modeled on MOTS. I always thought that the overal mentality of MOTS is "see...this is how we wanted to make it - LucasArts." When you disarm stormtroopers in MOTS, they attack you with melee combat. When you do it in JK, they just run away like a bunch of pansies.

As a fan, I would love to see force push/pull operate like it does in JK. I always hated the JO/JA push/pull. However, you gotta do what you can feasibly do. Lighsaber throw would be cool, but I like the secondary fire that they use in JK (2 swing attack). Of course you kind of can do that now with attack & alt attack simultaneously together.

 

What I hate it in JO/JA is the level 2 & 3 force choke (choke + levitate). Only Darth Tyranus did it in ROTS. Otherwise no one ever did it.

 

Don't forget force destruction too. I got no idea on how you'd do that. You could create a new weapon attack, and attrib it to a force power (kind of like the flame thrower in the flamethrower mod.)

 

As for Kyle's theme, I've never played all the way through Dark Forces (so you can imagine that I'm super excited to have the dark forces get closer to completion.) Does anyone have a sample of Kyle's theme? I'm not making any promises, but I have taken music theory 1-4, and I'm pretty proficient with music. Again...no promises, but I might be able to work something out.

 

No promises.

[SlicerDude]

As for Kyle's theme, I've never played all the way through Dark Forces (so you can imagine that I'm super excited to have the dark forces get closer to completion.) Does anyone have a sample of Kyle's theme? I'm not making any promises, but I have taken music theory 1-4, and I'm pretty proficient with music. Again...no promises, but I might be able to work something out.

 

No promises.

 

Look in the downloads on the DFMOD site; there you can find the Second Demo Suite (the portion of DF's soundtrack used in the demo, as done by Benevolence) and Lundquist's Unofficial Soundtrack, which features music from the whole game.

[jedispy]

Look in the downloads on the DFMOD site

I'll check it out.

[jereth]

il could shoot my self in the foot here but oh well the narshadda flyby wouldnt be that hard to animate hard to build yes hard to texture yes lighting god yes but the actual animation i did a simalar project in college not that hard i dont think it had any particle effects or anything too complex and even those can be done with help

not like im volentering or anything, epp my foot the pain

[jedispy]

I agree. What was done in JK was honestly, freshman quality in a 3D graphics art major. If I had 3DS max, I could do better. But I don't.

[SlicerDude]

I agree. What was done in JK was honestly, freshman quality in a 3D graphics art major. If I had 3DS max, I could do better. But I don't.

 

It was also done on a low budget 7 years ago, but I guess that's the point of this mod, isn't it?

[sith_master2000]

Dart Zaidyer doesn't look like he's coming back so I continued work on my Dark Forces II Kyle re-skin. The face is the same as the JA Kyle because I am terrible at skinning faces. I'm willing to hand it over to another skinner if you guys want it to look more like Jason Court. Also the neck still has too much of the shirt showing for the same reason of the face. Another model may be a better option than re-skinning this Kyle but Hap Slash is probably the best person for the job but he sometimes doesn't gets his projects done . Anywho here it is:

And here is the original Kyle to compare it to:

[jedispy]

I guess that's the point of this mod, isn't it?

Well, that's the deal isn't it? Why make a mod? Even more so, why make a mod of a game that's already been made? I would hope the reason is either to make it better than the original, either by making it an improved facsimile (like DFMOD is doing), or by making an almost entirely new game (which is what we plan on doing with SOTE Mod). The answer to the question is up to the members of the DF2MOD team (which...I'm not actually sure who the members are other than Shamus & sith_master2000)

[Sir Vougalot]

Truckload of suggestions. I would greatly appreciate it if someone on the MOD team could address them for me. (I sent them, along with some questions, to dark_malak2001@yahoo.com, but he hasn't replied. Does anyone know that the deal is?)

 

Here we go:

 

1: Try to keep it so that only the Force powers that are in JK are be available in the mod. (Jump, Speed, Sense, Pull, Healing, Persuasion, Blinding, Absorb, Protection, Throw, Grip, Lightning, Destruction, Deadly Sight.) However, I do think that Push, Saber Throw, Saber Defense and Saber Offense should also be available. (Unfortunately, you would not be able to develope all of your powers, unless you distribute more stars per mission. Or else make it so that Push and Pull are one power, and Defense and Offense grow automatically as your rank increases.) Also, there should be a balance between their functionality in JK and in JA. Example: Lightning was pretty much useless in JK, but was VERY useful in JO and JA. Hence it should function as it does in JO and JA. Grip should function as it did in JO and JA, as should Jump, Pull, Push, Healing, Throw, Absorb and Saber Throw. Speed should be a cross between both: add one star, and only your body speeds up, but not your mind. Add two stars, and your mind speeds up as well, slowing the world down 75%. Three stars: 50%. Four: 25%. However, it should last for thirty seconds as it does in JK, and not ten like in JO/JA. Sense should illumine everything as it does in JK, but it should also have those lines it has in JA and also show enemies behind walls. Protection should LOOK the way it does in JA but ACT the way it does in JK. As for Destruction: Perhaps you can make the size of the orb in accordance with your rank; and it may also be able to be fired from both hands simaltaneously if you saber is deactivated, as with Lighting. As for the look, it should resemble what it looks like when Yun and Jerec use it against you in the cutscenes. (Perhaps it can also shake the screen when it connects, making you stagger; and maybe small bits of debris could fall to the ground, as in the JA cutscene where your character meets up with Alora before going off to find Rosh.) I'm not sure if there should be one saber style, or multiple styles that increase with your rank. Throw should make debris spawn off walls and hurl at your enemy, as well as large movable rocks. Persuasion should function pretty much the same, but the effect should look smilar to the Shadowtrooper/Sabateur effect. I know that some of these ideas are kind of dull, removing likable powers, but I only wish this mod to be more like the original.

 

2: I really hope that you can recreate the morality scale, and that it would function exactly the same as it did in JK. (Depending upon innocents killed and Force Power allignment.) Perhaps there should be more elements to it, and also have ways to bring it further into the light. (But if you can at least recreate the original scale, I'd be happy. Start working on it now so it doesn't become last-minute:))

 

3: Instead of the cutscene "A Jedi's Destiny" being before you start your game, it should be after you start a new game, like the open credit scenes are in JO and JA. Now, I know that there is already a cutscene that starts right after you start a sew game: "The Double-Cross on Nar Shadaa." I think that you should combine the two into one. I know it'll be long, but I still think that people will enjoy it. You start a new game, where the loading scene reads "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..." and then it goes right into AJD, with the Star Wars logo and the opening crawl. At the end of AJD, after Jerec decapitates Rawn, instead of showing the title again (which is very un-Star Wars-like), it should immediately cut to TDCONS, with the scene where the camera is flying in between buildings, with the captions "Nar Shadaa: The Verticle City."

 

4: According to the obectives, the final duel between Kyle and Jerec takes place inside the Valley core, which sucked up Kyle and Jerec. Now, after the FMV where Kyle defeats Bok (light side), attach to it an in-game cutscene with a hole blown in the core, and Kyle and Jerec being sucked in. The mission ends, and when the next mission begins, and the next map is loaded, have it start out with an in-game cutscene with Kyle and Jerec plummeting from high above, and then have them be able to turn themselves upright, Force pull their free-falling sabers into their hands, and then land gently on the ground. Jerec then ignites his saber, and and it begins the familiar pan around the arena, with the camera traveling up the central tower, where Qu Rawn says his speech, "His heavy brow..." (The falling cutscene could also be done with the dark side.)

 

5. I think you should also add tons of yellow light higher up in the air, since it's supposed to be inside the core. Perhaps have those little green and yellow "fire flies" swarming all over the place as well.

 

6: If you have chosen the dark side, after you slay Jerec in the final battle, there should be a brief in-game cutscene where Kyle walks to the central tower to consume the power, before going into the cutscene of Corescant, with the shuttle entering Imperial Palace.

 

7: After you strike the finishing blow upon Jerec, it should go into another in-game cutscene (this is on the light side, and an alternate to my previous suggestion of Kyle walking into the certal tower on the dark side). In this in-game cutscene, Kyle calls upon the surrounding power to elevate himself and Jerec into the air. They zoom upwards, and the level ends. Now you load the previous map of the Valley of the Jedi, where Kyle and Jerec are slung out of the hole in the core. Jerec limps around as the two exchange a few final saber blows, ending with Kyle striking the final blow. It'll then go into the FMV where Jerec falls down and says "I am defensless..." (This cutscene should only be for the light side. When playing the dark side, it should be replaced with my previous suggestion: Kyle walking into the central tower to consume the power.)

 

8: Also note that there are no cutscenes prior to and following the fight with Bok when playing on the dark side. Perhaps in-game cutscenes can be placed here. You also do not see "the tresspass," since it has Jan in it, and she is obviously dead if you are playing the dark side. Perhaps you can edit this scene, and cut out the parts with Jan and Bok, and just show Jerec jumping into the core. (This is for the dark side only. The original cutscene is fine for the light side.

 

9: In the light side ending, when all of those little "fire flies" are swarming around, and lightning is coming out of the core, before it cuts to Kyle carving the statues of Morgan and Rawn, there was originally supposed to be a scene where that lightning from the core reaches all the way out into space, destroying all of Jerec's star destroyers and other ships. (That's why Mon Mothma mentions that Kyle and Jan were the only survivors of the Valley of the Jedi incident.) The scene was cut due to production costs. Perhaps you could compose a scene like this, and combine it with the ending scene. (And, of course, you would have to play with the musical score in order to make it fit the scene.)

 

10: Also regarding the light side ending: The final credits should have the Star Wars theme playing. (The original music is fine for the dark side ending.) This would also mean that you would have to freeze the final scene of the statues, wait until the music ends, and then let the scene cut to the credits. (Again, you'd have to play with the music, so that it no longer dies out, but builds up at the end, leading into the happy Star Wars music.)

 

TIP: Get a hold of some of the Star Wars soundtracks in order to make things easier.

 

11: Perhaps you could somehow throw in the mention of the planet's name, Ruusan. (Perhaps you could rename "The Lost Planet of the Jedi" mission to be "Ruusan: The Lost Planet of the Jedi.") Maybe also mention of the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi and Sith, Lord Kaan and Darth Bane etc. in the mission objectives loading scene would be good...but I know your freedom is limited.

[jereth]

eep lots of sugestions there

 

i just do textureing and half he time i have problems with that

darn tiling reflective materials

[sith_master2000]

The answer to the question is up to the members of the DF2MOD team (which...I'm not actually sure who the members are other than Shamus & sith_master2000)

Me? I'm not a member. Well, not officially. All I've done is that Kyle re-skin.

 

Hey Shamus and/or DarkStarMojo, I found this interesting project which is a group of people remaking the Sith engine and they've called it Sith 2 so LA doesn't sue them for what they're doing. They have remodeled some of the characters and I thought you guys should see the Sariss model. I thought we could base the model we'll be using off their one or we could ask permission to use theirs and just size it up to the JA scale. Here's the site: http://jkhub.massassi.net/project/show.php?projid=28&section=screenshots Sariss is just below Jerec.

[Bomberman65]

Man it sounds like its going great btw r there any new screenshots for us to look at???

Keep going ur doing great.