g_forceRegenTime 0 - Who likes it?

[Samuel Dravis]

Sorry, but I just think it's funny how using a certain way of killing someone (that WAS meant to be in the game) is called spamming. I don't think players in many other games have such a strange way of dealing with being killed - I mean, they know it's not real, right? It's like saying that using a rifle a lot in a WW2 game is "spamming" it when it's actually just playing the game. It just sounds silly. The same with "laming".

 

Your points on CTF and TFFA taken, Kurgan. You may be right on that count. And with FFA, while it may not be balanced specifically for full force, that doesn't mean it's not fun. When I play on FF FFA servers, no one seems to use it like you're describing. I guess I'm just lucky to have avoided that type of person so far.

[Kurgan]

Spamming as a term for gaming is real and legitimate.

 

It simply describes (as its namesake, email spam) using the same thing over and over again.

 

 

The point of contention is the notion that spamming is "wrong" and shouldn't be allowed.

 

I've always been of the opinion that "spamming" is perfectly legitimate in nearly all cases because the fact that the opponents haven't figured out a counter after all those kills is evidence of their own inferior skill or imagination.

 

Now if this were a case of some bug exploit that made a certain tactic uncounterable, maybe it would be a problem.

 

So in my book, spamming is par for the course. Agree with you there. ; )

 

 

About the only way to compensate for the "problem of spamming" is to incorporate an "Honor Code" that forbids it, but this would be completely nonesensical and require way too much micromanagment and admin fascism to enforce. Yet, people seem to be trying... which is sad.

 

My comments about forceregentime 0 is that I've noticed two things:

 

1) I get many people in my server begging for forceregentime to be lowered (and I always use the default 200 which is the same as the default in JK2 was), indicating to me that people are "used" to playing it with 0. I see a lot of servers with 0, and I assume they are just used to playing this way and no other way.

 

2) I've noticed one of the most common complaints about "why JA sucks" or "needs a patch/mod" is that "people spam X, Y, or Z".

 

Since these folks are usually talking about sabers only or dueling, this indicates they're talking about Force Powers and Saber moves. Since these require mana, they are very difficult to spam, UNLESS they have fast force regen.

 

By reading between the lines I get the point that the biggest problem with this game is that too many servers have forceregentime 0 (or at least very much lower than the default) and that players have become "spoiled" by this, and their whole worldview of the game (and whether they like it or hate it) is based on this setting.

 

So in a sense, they're not really playing or judging "the game" as it were, since this so radically alters gameplay.

 

The thing is they can't have it both ways, they can't get their fast force regen and not have spamming.

[Samuel Dravis]

I've always been of the opinion that "spamming" is perfectly legitimate in nearly all cases because the fact that the opponents haven't figured out a counter after all those kills is evidence of their own inferior skill or imagination.

Exactly.

About the only way to compensate for the "problem of spamming" is to incorporate an "Honor Code" that forbids it, but this would be completely nonesensical and require way too much micromanagment and admin fascism to enforce. Yet, people seem to be trying... which is sad.

Agreed, but let's not bring that up. Someone might like to "debate" the point.

 

I think you hit it on the head Kurgan - they're just too used to it being on to the exclusion of all else.

[FlashRam]

Look man, i've been playing JK series a long time. From what I read on this board, all of the older players are trying to explain to newbies why 0 force regen is unbalanced and takes less skill then the legit setting of 200. God forbid you newbs actually learn how to be accurate with your pull kicks and what not instead of having to have infinte force so you can just keep spamming if you miss. How many times have I seen newbs just mash on their pull key until they finally get it right. Yes, that is true skill......lol...

 

God forbid you guys learn how to strafe jump and wall climb properly so that you can conserve force in your movement....but not only do you demand that you instantly get your force back from jumping, but you ALSO demand a Jet Pack, which is another non-legitimate cheat. Basically what you are saying to me is that the legit game is too hard for you, and you want to use cheats to bring skilled players down to your level.

[Crow_Nest]

Since you want to explain that to people can you not use the word "newb" or "newbie"?

[Samuel Dravis]

Since I can't answer for everyone else:

Originally posted by Egoslav1a

Look man, i've been playing JK series a long time.

Ok. I have too - bought all the games, played them extensively.

From what I read on this board, all of the older players are trying to explain to newbies why 0 force regen is unbalanced and takes less skill then the legit setting of 200.

First, I'm pretty sure I'm not a 'newbie'. I've played both JO and JA since it came out. Second, the 'older players' - translate 'senior forum members' because they really can't have played the games much earlier than me - have already presented their arguments, and I agreed with them. When I connect to a server with a forceregen of 200, I don't get immediately outraged that it doesn't conform to my standards. I just play the game. While I find it more fun to play with infinite force, as that allows you to do things that you would not normally do, it is not essential for enjoying the game.

God forbid you newbs actually learn how to be accurate with your pull kicks and what not instead of having to have infinte force so you can just keep spamming if you miss.

Just so you know - I hardly ever use katas or special moves. I usually don't even need them. I personally like to make saber combat a little more difficult by restricting my usage of the moves that do a lot of damage. It makes things more interesting.

How many times have I seen newbs just mash on their pull key until they finally get it right. Yes, that is true skill......lol...

Very, very rarely do I use pull. I like maxing out force points on Protect and Absorb better.

God forbid you guys learn how to strafe jump and wall climb properly so that you can conserve force in your movement....

You apparently assume that I don't know how to do these things. I do, and I'd appreciate it if you got rid of your stereotype that 'everyone who likes force regen 0 doesn't have any idea on how to play the game.'

but not only do you demand that you instantly get your force back from jumping, but you ALSO demand a Jet Pack, which is another non-legitimate cheat.

Err...what? The Jetpack is already in Siege, and the only way to get it otherwise is to either use a mod or enable cheats on the server.

Basically what you are saying to me is that the legit game is too hard for you, and you want to use cheats to bring skilled players down to your level.

Not at all. I can enjoy the game either way, with forceregen 0 or forceregen 200. Apparently, the only problem here is that you will not accept that other people have opinions that may differ from yours. I'm sorry for you that you cannot enjoy all aspects of the game as much as I.

 

And what's with the 'newbie', 'newbs' etc? They don't make your posts any more convincing, and they definitely make them much harder to take seriously.

[acdcfanbill]

force regen of zero pretty much nullifies darkside which isnt a bad thing cause usually drain, lightning, and grip are all disabled (unless ur a uber admin) so everyone is forced to go light anyway. yea, its great to hear 'whoosh' 'whoosh' 'whoosh' in the span of 1.5 secs, knowing ppl can heal faster than you can do dmg, cept for the lucky 1 hit kill butterflys. oh, also, i prefer regen 200

[FlashRam]

too long, didn't read

[Prime]

Thanks for trying.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest

Hey whos the newb? Who just joined and with only less than a 10 posts!

 

Forum posts do not measure skill, as you are a prime example.

 

Now in all seriousness.

 

Regen 0 takes out the last bit of skill left in base ja. force management. Now you guys can ask bill, darth cobra, and the other guys who were in [sL] and ask them how hard it is with just 200 regen in a TDM match using energize every other second (don't forget JO had no limit) which does take skill to time and keep going while you are playing and killing (even in jo it did). But when you set it to 0, you remove all balance from the game and it just becomes a newbfest. I guarantee that if myself or ego (who is one of the better s/o ctf'ers i've seen) were to go up against a whole server all we would have to do is use ptk to tear you apart, heal or no heal. Heck i even dueled a kid who was supposed to be one of the best with 0 regen and we played on 200 then on 0 and he never touched me, and left the server after only 5 rounds claiming i was a "gay faggot cheater".

[Kurgan]

So suffice to say the only place that Forceregen 0 doesn't utterly ruin the game is FFA, right?

 

And even then it's questionable.

 

 

And anybody who wants to call me a Newb, I've been playing this series since Oct 97. The only real "lull" in the series for me was JK2. Between the release of 1.03 and 1.04 I didn't play online that much.

 

The problem is people are addicted to forceregen 0 because it's these same admins who think Admin Mods, honor codes and weapon/forcedisable are the greatest things ever are addicted to using that setting. It makes them spoiled and lazy, hence they can't deal with the default settings anymore.

[Lightning]

Originally posted by Kurgan

The problem is people are addicted to forceregen 0 because it's these same admins who think Admin Mods, honor codes and weapon/forcedisable are the greatest things ever are addicted to using that setting. It makes them spoiled and lazy, hence they can't deal with the default settings anymore.

 

I had that problem my self. But good thing for my is that i found that out my self a few weeks ago and every things slowly going back to normal. Forceregen is 150 right about now on my server and i all most never have any problem with running out of force. And playing on my self with a higher forceregen only made it more fun.

[Master William]

Originally posted by Egoslav1a

Look man, i've been playing JK series a long time. From what I read on this board, all of the older players are trying to explain to newbies why 0 force regen is unbalanced and takes less skill then the legit setting of 200. God forbid you newbs actually learn how to be accurate with your pull kicks and what not instead of having to have infinte force so you can just keep spamming if you miss. How many times have I seen newbs just mash on their pull key until they finally get it right. Yes, that is true skill......lol...

 

God forbid you guys learn how to strafe jump and wall climb properly so that you can conserve force in your movement....but not only do you demand that you instantly get your force back from jumping, but you ALSO demand a Jet Pack, which is another non-legitimate cheat. Basically what you are saying to me is that the legit game is too hard for you, and you want to use cheats to bring skilled players down to your level.

 

Too long, didn't read.

[Rockstar]

if your force immediately regenrates what stops a light sider from using level 3 heal,heal,heal,heal and being immortal??

 

i wouldn't know but i think i'd prefer to play the game legit rather than with cheats on...

[Crow_Nest]

Originally posted by Rockstar

if your force immediately regenrates what stops a light sider from using level 3 heal,heal,heal,heal and being immortal??

 

i wouldn't know but i think i'd prefer to play the game legit rather than with cheats on...

 

If that guy keeps healing, you can spam lightning and kill him before he manages to heal again. Or can always disable heal and lightning.

[FlashRam]

If that guy keeps healing, you can spam lightning and kill him before he manages to heal again. Or can always disable heal and lightning.

 

lol.....

 

I've played JKA for about a month now out of boredom and lack of extra funds to get UT2k4. I havn't met a "full force dueler" who had any skills apart from a grip kick. It's sad how terrible they all are. S/o CTF is totally dead, the maps and gameplay have rendered it unplayable. Full Weapon CTF is still fun. I play maybe an hour or two a week but I havn't seen a good player yet, other then the occasional oldschool gunner on a full weapon server. I don't ffa full force at all since all of the servers are 0 force regen.

The last time I did was against this supposedly "elite" clan called IJ. They had their force set to 0. They were all really awful players, one trick ponies...not able to stand against an old JK vet like me, even when I am rusty. I beat them all really bad. At one point this guy pulled 5 times in a row really quick trying to hit me with a pull kick, and totally missed. I couldn't help but think how ugly the dueling style in 0 force regen is, so much spamming, so little percision. If that had been legit force regen, he would have got jacked quick for using up that much force without any result. It's just made it so newbs have a better chance of getting a hit or two in against a skilled player.

 

But yeah, I agree...it's basically like enabling a cheat.

[Rockstar]

how about using force absorb, then force heal, heal, heal, heal?? lol

 

or can't u use heal whilst the absorb effects are on

[Samuel Dravis]

Absorb prevents force regeneration. So, you couldn't do that. I dislike heal anyway - it doesn't heal enough HP to be useful on a fregentime 200 server.

[FlashRam]

I rarely use heal if i'm simply full force dueling legit. And I only use absorb in select circumstances (like if my saber falls out on a throw, or when I sense the other guy is about to drain if he is dark). Lightside has almost no chance against a skilled darksider unless we're talking about UJ or something, but he was a fluke, and he dueled mostly darkside from what I saw anyways.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Originally posted by Egoslav1a

I rarely use heal if i'm simply full force dueling legit. And I only use absorb in select circumstances (like if my saber falls out on a throw, or when I sense the other guy is about to drain if he is dark). Lightside has almost no chance against a skilled darksider unless we're talking about UJ or something, but he was a fluke, and he dueled mostly darkside from what I saw anyways.

 

^ Correct. Once you get decked with drain you're finished if Light.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by Egoslav1a

I rarely use heal if i'm simply full force dueling legit. And I only use absorb in select circumstances (like if my saber falls out on a throw, or when I sense the other guy is about to drain if he is dark). Lightside has almost no chance against a skilled darksider unless we're talking about UJ or something, but he was a fluke, and he dueled mostly darkside from what I saw anyways.

 

UJ invinted the most effective lightside style, which screed used and was the best lightside dueler. pyro has been using it and he is very good, but not quite as good.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by Samuel Dravis

Since I can't answer for everyone else:

Ok. I have too - bought all the games, played them extensively.First, I'm pretty sure I'm not a 'newbie'. I've played both JO and JA since it came out. Second, the 'older players' - translate 'senior forum members' because they really can't have played the games much earlier than me - have already presented their arguments, and I agreed with them. When I connect to a server with a forceregen of 200, I don't get immediately outraged that it doesn't conform to my standards. I just play the game. While I find it more fun to play with infinite force, as that allows you to do things that you would not normally do, it is not essential for enjoying the game.Just so you know - I hardly ever use katas or special moves. I usually don't even need them. I personally like to make saber combat a little more difficult by restricting my usage of the moves that do a lot of damage. It makes things more interesting. Very, very rarely do I use pull. I like maxing out force points on Protect and Absorb better.

You apparently assume that I don't know how to do these things. I do, and I'd appreciate it if you got rid of your stereotype that 'everyone who likes force regen 0 doesn't have any idea on how to play the game.'

Err...what? The Jetpack is already in Siege, and the only way to get it otherwise is to either use a mod or enable cheats on the server. Not at all. I can enjoy the game either way, with forceregen 0 or forceregen 200. Apparently, the only problem here is that you will not accept that other people have opinions that may differ from yours. I'm sorry for you that you cannot enjoy all aspects of the game as much as I.

 

And what's with the 'newbie', 'newbs' etc? They don't make your posts any more convincing, and they definitely make them much harder to take seriously.

 

I'm nowhere near a friend of media, but comparing your experience with his is like comparing a minnow to a great white.

 

the old fk's and s~'s (now part of crossover) know more about the gameplay mechanics than anyone, primarily because they tested every facet of the gameplay extensively.

 

oh yeah fu media.

[Kurgan]

ForceRegen 0 really benefits "instant use" powers, we're talking here about Drain, Lightning (especially two-handed lightning, ouch!), Jump, Pull, Push, etc.

 

Grip isn't that big of an issue, but every little bit of mana helps, while you're doing one power you can get ready to do the next one without penalty.

 

Likewise it benefits mana draining saber moves like twirls, katas, saber barrier, and the three single saber special moves.

 

What this means is that Protect, Absorb, become less useful so I think in general this benefits the Dark Side the most.

 

Sure a Light Jedi can heal like mad, but then he can still be killed in one hit, or during the slight delay before the healing takes effect.

 

Rage wouldn't seem to be a beneficiary of the unlimited mana, but remember the Dark Sider can use drain to get himself back to full health and use Speed during the recovery period so he can get back in the game much faster.

 

I forget if you can actually heal yourself and gain back mana during Rage in JA (you could in JK2), but if so there again is another strike against going lightside on regen 0 servers.

 

So the issue is with balance, really. If you like that style of gameplay (biased in favor of darkside and spamming of saber special moves) then I guess that's your choice.

[Samuel Dravis]

Originally posted by Rumor

I'm nowhere near a friend of media, but comparing your experience with his is like comparing a minnow to a great white.

 

the old fk's and s~'s (now part of crossover) know more about the gameplay mechanics than anyone, primarily because they tested every facet of the gameplay extensively.

 

oh yeah fu media.

lol, whatever. If you people think that spending the entire day (or even part of it) getting better at a video game is going to get you anywhere, be my guest. Sounds like someone has gotten a little obsessed. BTW, that 'great white' thing was classic.

 

Since this thread is worn out because Kurgan messes everything up by posting the final word, and he's actually right about it, I'm going to stop posting inflammatory comments now.

 

Try not to get carried away, eh?

[FlashRam]

fu rumor

 

 

does screed and pyro still play jka, if not who does

 

And samual, plz stfu. At first you tried to act elite, now you are calling good players losers with no life. Plz figure out which stance you are going with and stick with it.