Tyrion Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 I thought of this when I was remembering about how Sunday was created for God to rest on after his six days of work. Now..wouldn't he require no days, just a "poof" and the world would be created? If he has to work, then his power is ultimately infinitely more finite than everyone says...which means he isn't the Omega, not the Alpha, because the bible indirectly says that his power is limited, and that he cannot control time. What do you guys think about this? Do I have a point, or have I had one too many of Rhett's jawa juices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 What do you guys think about this? Do I have a point, or have I had one too many of Rhett's jawa juices? Probably jk of course Umm I wouldn't really know, but does it really matter if He has infinite powers or not? Also, if He has infinite powers, why would he create us, humans,? Also, I think the point of Him not controlling time is to let the humans learn from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Well If he is really an all powerful being he should be able to have infinite power, thus making him an all powerful being. And If he is the ultimate, then he should able to have infinite power. Or atleast that's my take on ultimate power. I could be wrong though, after all, I'm only human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by Tyrion I thought of this when I was remembering about how Sunday was created for God to rest on after his six days of work. Now..wouldn't he require no days, just a "poof" and the world would be created? If he has to work, then his power is ultimately infinitely more finite than everyone says...which means he isn't the Omega, not the Alpha, because the bible indirectly says that his power is limited, and that he cannot control time. if 'god' really creates he would have done better. also i see no reason why he should have stopped "creating". why doesnt he create all the time, and on all the planets? i am not saying that there is not somebody/-thing who/what could be perceived as "god" and is reasonably causing things which are causing "reality" as we know it. but it shurely is not created on purpose. in other words: "god" must "obey" the laws of the reality it has "created" if it wants to "take action" within that "reality". so "god" must obey the laws of space-time too. also no matter if "creation" or "cause" both "happenings" need time to "exist". both are an expression of changings within a time. what is "control of time" anyways? there's no control panel or whatever. and what to control? speed of time? time has no speed. because time is taken to define speed. how can time have a speed itself then? err.. but i'm drifting off, since that's not the question here. however, too bad i have no 2000 year old book to support this theory(?). maybe if i wait a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 hella cool sig rayjones! alright, my opinion about the whole rest on the seventh day can come from several aspects. first of all, it happened a long time ago and has been translated through the ages. who knows? it might actually be longer than seven days. because IF a superior being is in existence, what is a day to him? and secondly, a lot of the basis for christianity comes from the greeks, who believed that their gods were superior with powers, but there were just like humans if you can follow that logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 a lot of the basis for christianity comes from the greeks, no.. not really. He does still creat, arent people still being born? "God is not haphazard; he planned it all with great precision. The more physicists, biologists, and other scientists learn about the universe, the better we can understand how it is uniquely suited for our existence, custom-made with the exact specifications that make human life possible." -The Purpose Driven Life, by Rick Warren He is omnipotent. Your not so you dont understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Your not so you dont understand. This is probably true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted May 1, 2004 Author Share Posted May 1, 2004 He does still creat, arent people still being born? That doesn't prove anything, we now know that we're born because of a sperm and an egg combining to make a zygot. He is omnipotent. Your not so you dont understand. But the Bible was made for us humans to understand, right? So we understand that it took him 6 days to create the earth...thusly, his power is finite(unless he made the writers of the bible say this, so that 2000 years later I will write about this, to write against him..gah, I feel like I'm Agent Smith. ) (And mennonite, most of your posts seem to be so vague and indefinite, I'd like to hear your honest opinion..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 --ZeeMan-- a lot of the basis of christianity comes from the greeks Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 no.. not really Actually, you're both right. Alot of Christian beliefs are based off of other religions. The Holy Trinity(Father, Son, Ghost) is based off of the Egyptian Trinity(Ra, Horus, and I forgot the other one). The Christian Devil is depected similar to a Wiccan god(forgot which one), a religion that is nearly opposite of Christianity, but centuries older than Judaism(Its not witchcraft, its nature), which is the bases of all monotheist religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 hmmm... theres no proof about the Egyptain stuff How do you know that it came from the egyptain religion, or the wiccan religion? I might do something one way, and someone else does it the same way, and has for longer than me. Does that mean I am copying them? No. Just because Christianity wasnt written down first, or embraced first, doesnt mean it has been copied, or stolen. The bible tells us that no one really worshiped God for a while... err.. well, i guess not on any serious level (like walking with God, day by day) Obviously, other people would have other ideas. After the flood, one of Noah's sons founded Egypt (or his descendents did.) They obviously knew about God. People twist things. You cant assume that just because something comes before something else, thats simular, that, that thing copied it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted May 1, 2004 Author Share Posted May 1, 2004 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 People twist things. You cant assume that just because something comes before something else, thats simular, that, that thing copied it. I'm amazed that you firmly believe in the bible, if you feel that people twist things. No matter if it was divine intervention or not, people had a part in writing the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Just because Christianity wasnt written down first, or embraced first, doesnt mean it has been copied, or stolen. The bible tells us that no one really worshiped God for a while... err.. well, i guess not on any serious level (like walking with God, day by day) . I dont understand how people would ever come to make up other gods and stuff if the tale of creation is true. I mean, God only made two humans, and they had MET God...so....wouldn't they be like, no man, God is the one, I freakin MET him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 I think people don't understand that you can both be a good christian and wondering how this and that came into the Bible. They seem to obey to anything blindly without asking questions whatsoever. No flaming intented. Anyway, I guess Adam and Eve's children started drifting away from the "right" path and I don't know, maybe "created" other Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad I think people don't understand that you can both be a good christian and wondering how this and that came into the Bible. They seem to obey to anything blindly without asking questions whatsoever. I know what you mean, I still really at heart consider myself christian, but I have to question alot of the practices and things in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Ginn Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 if 'god' really creates he would have done better. also i see no reason why he should have stopped "creating". why doesnt he create all the time, and on all the planets? Well look at it this way, if the earth was moved a couple degrees toward the sun it would burn up, and in the other direction it would freeze. That seems pretty good to me! plus how evaporation happens, how life is made, how our bodies work without us having comtrol over it, thats some pretty good creating. I mean come on lokk at how light pierces darkness, thats pretty friggin' cool. And to the topic at hand, yes God has infinate power. I beleive that God chose to create the earth in 7 days for a reason, for which i'm not sure.(let me do some researching)Plus God could've have made everthing in one day if H wanted to, He just decided not to! I dont understand how people would ever come to make up other gods and stuff if the tale of creation is true. I mean, God only made two humans, and they had MET God...so....wouldn't they be like, no man, God is the one, I freakin MET him. True,true. It's kind of like word of mouth. Things get so messed through time and people get things wrong, and people forget! Stupid people! kind of like that one game you play in grade school where someone whispers something into a persons ear and must relay the message and it always gets screwed up. And people just don't have faith that He is the one and true God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted May 1, 2004 Author Share Posted May 1, 2004 Well look at it this way, if the earth was moved a couple degrees toward the sun it would burn up, and in the other direction it would freeze. That seems pretty good to me! plus how evaporation happens, how life is made, how our bodies work without us having comtrol over it, thats some pretty good creating. I mean come on lokk at how light pierces darkness, thats pretty friggin' cool. Well, we think how light pierces darkness, bodies work without our control, and evaporation works is cool because we don't have power over them. Plus, it seems alot less romantic once you find out how it all works. And to the topic at hand, yes God has infinate power. I beleive that God chose to create the earth in 7 days for a reason, for which i'm not sure.(let me do some researching)Plus God could've have made everthing in one day if H wanted to, He just decided not to! But why did he take a rest on the 7th day, then? He wouldn't need to take a rest on the 7th day because of his powers. Heck, implying that he needs a rest also means he has finite stamina(I'm nitpicking because he has to fill ALOT of standards to be worth of having infinite power). True,true. It's kind of like word of mouth. Things get so messed through time and people get things wrong, and people forget! Stupid people! kind of like that one game you play in grade school where someone whispers something into a persons ear and must relay the message and it always gets screwed up. And people just don't have faith that He is the one and true God! The game's called Telephone, by the way. But you have to understand, it's hard to accept something with faith when it could easily have succumbed to the same syndrome you mentioned. The Catholic church would've, at least once in it's entire exsistance, changed the bible to thier own benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Ginn Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 The game's called Telephone, by the way. But you have to understand, it's hard to accept something with faith when it could easily have succumbed to the same syndrome you mentioned. The Catholic church would've, at least once in it's entire exsistance, changed the bible to thier own benefit. No one ever said having faith is easy. It's hard, doubts and fears such as this one can come up and the only answer to it is undying faith in God! But why did he take a rest on the 7th day, then? He wouldn't need to take a rest on the 7th day because of his powers. Heck, implying that he needs a rest also means he has finite stamina(I'm nitpicking because he has to fill ALOT of standards to be worth of having infinite power). Well at that time God wanted man to reflect that, saturday not sunday as most believe, to be a day of rest, the Sabboth. And in order for man to follow God's comandment God Himself must obey it as well. Does that explain it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted May 1, 2004 Author Share Posted May 1, 2004 No one ever said having faith is easy. It's hard, doubts and fears such as this one can come up and the only answer to it is undying faith in God! Maybe it's just a difference of mentality, but to have faith in something I need to be sure I have a solid foundation to stand on. Undying faith in my opinion isn't that solid. Well at that time God wanted man to reflect that, saturday not sunday as most believe, to be a day of rest, the Sabboth. And in order for man to follow God's comandment God Himself must obey it as well. Does that explain it? Well, not really. God could just make a double standard. He wouldn't even need infinite power to do it(heck, we've all done it one time or another). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Ginn Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Well i'm sorry buddy, i don't have all the answers for ya, but i'm gonna be doing some reading and studying about this and get back to ya. Maybe it's just a difference of mentality, but to have faith in something I need to be sure I have a solid foundation to stand on. Undying faith in my opinion isn't that solid I see where you are coming from, but couldn't you say that all faith comes from a somewhat unsolid foundation. I'm just sayingthis for arguements sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted May 1, 2004 Author Share Posted May 1, 2004 Well i'm sorry buddy, i don't have all the answers for ya, but i'm gonna be doing some reading and studying about this and get back to ya. Hey, no problems, infact I'd like to see you trounce over my response. I only come here for extra knowledge; better to learn and be wrong, than to remain ignorant and right.. I see where you are coming from, but couldn't you say that all faith comes from a somewhat unsolid foundation. I'm just sayingthis for arguements sake. It's just the degree of faith that seperates our arguments, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Ginn Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Tyrion, sorry if i came off as a jerk. it wasn't my intention. It's just when i'm really passionate about something i become really defensive. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 hmmm... theres no proof about the Egyptain stuff Ha! Not a lot of proof for the christian "stuff" either if you think about ..... only circular proofs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 He does still creat, arent people still being born? but that is not the way humans were created (err.. not in my opinion.), as far as i know there is not written anything like "and god took a sperm and an egg to form the humans.." God is not haphazard; he planned it all with great precision. The more physicists, biologists, and other scientists learn about the universe, the better we can understand how it is uniquely suited for our existence, custom-made with the exact specifications that make human life possible." i somehow like the idea that we are "adapted" to the "universe" since the universe is much older.. He is omnipotent. Your not so you dont understand. i understand a lot. i dont need omnipotence. plus omnipotence does not include omniscience. Originally posted by Feanaro Well look at it this way, if the earth was moved a couple degrees toward the sun it would burn up, and in the other direction it would freeze. hey, but it didnt. and there are enough reasons why, without including divine spirit, so what? it's "cool" too, that there are things like atoms, electrons and so on. i dont need to watch the earth to see cool things. also the earth would burn up, mercury doesnt burn up. even the sun is more than just some plain burning thing. the sun is a star. stars are producing "new" elements. they make helium out of hydrogen. without stars we would have a pretty small periodic table. we couldnt even exist. now tell me, is that pretty much cool or what? how life is made, how our bodies work without us having comtrol over it, thats some pretty good creating. life is made? life is happening. chemical reactions. physical events. that's pretty much it. and we have pretty much control over our body, or better our brain has, only that "we" dont really take notice of it. it happens subconscious influenced by instincts and such. so from that aspect, our body controls itself. what we do is to say "hey body. take the right arm and grab that chocolate cookie. oh, and dont forget to pickup the glass of milk with the left arm. thanks." after all it's "just life", and life is just "trying" to spread. I mean come on lokk at how light pierces darkness, thats pretty friggin' cool. there is no thing like "darkness". there is no thing like "light". there is space and electromagnetic waves. what you describe is a definition of what we percieve. not more. not less. so why make it a miracle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 After the flood, one of Noah's sons founded Egypt (or his descendents did.) They obviously knew about God. People twist things. You cant assume that just because something comes before something else, thats simular, that, that thing copied it. They knew about God, yet worshipped an entire Heirarchy of seperate Deities, which God strictly prohibits. I find that interesting, given that the son's of Noah would probably be some thee(not a typo) most God-fearing/worshipping people walking the Sahara. And people do twist things. Lets just say a humans, in its unceasing hatred for its own species(since we're all more or less self-destructive on the primitve level, which is where all these people were), was writing a book in the Bible. Lets say he had a long-withstanding hatred of some nature polytheist(y'know, a Wiccan) and knew about his religion(the Deity's names and basic human discriptions, as all people who hate someone know nearly everything about that person). How would he get back at this person? Simple, turn a major god of his into the ruler of all that is Evil and Destructive; Lucifer. How would he do this? 'Lucifer starts a war with God, man! And then, God sends him to Hell man! And Lucifer looks like this GOAT-MAN...MAN!!' Ironicly speaking, the Greek hierarchy had goat-men too,known as Satyrs, and they were turned into Satan...hm... ...nope, can't find anyway of Christianity getting back at the people who enslaved them for centuries:fist: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Ginn Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 hey, but it didnt. and there are enough reasons why, without including divine spirit, so what? it's "cool" too, that there are things like atoms, electrons and so on. i dont need to watch the earth to see cool things. Well i guess we looka t things differently, is the glass half empty or half full? I look at life as a miracle given to us by God, along with everything else that God created on earth. Such as animals, trees, skies, oceans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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