Tinfoil espionage operatives

[Zoom Rabbit]

Is the right to hate covered in the bill of rights (or any other nation's constitution?) I'd hate to be in violation of the law for...well, hating. I guess.

[Dr Edison 007]

Yeah, it's in there.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems the Authoritarian Party is based on that right (sorry If I offended any of you socialists and fascists out there .)

[Skinkie]

I wanna join the Flat Earth Party, it sounds like quite the riot to me.

[Joshi]

I'd rather be the radical one and say the world is sephirical. Of course I may be burned at the stake for that kind of comment, everyone knows it's dodecahedron shaped.

 

And ray, if you don't understand my posts, you're halfway to total enlightenment/insanity.

[Skinkie]

Spherical? Bah! And I bet you think cameras don't steal your sould too.

[Zoom Rabbit]

Aw, photographs are okay...but digital images on the internet are voodoo bait. There are demonic supercomputers hidden somewhere in France that will literally suck your living image out of mid-air and download you into the anti-christ's hell program. When you die, digitial hell-hounds come for you.

 

Which is why there is NOT ONE gif-gaff or jpeg of yours truly in existance.

 

Terribly sorry about the France comment, if I offended any of... Aw, screw it. If you're french, you should be offended. Cochon.

[Alien426]

And still you will happily condemn Max to eternal suffering in hell??

 

 

Who am I kidding, he'd go there in any case...

[Ray Jones]

imagine a cyberhell running on a MS-OS, rebooting constantly because it got the sasser virus.

 

 

 

[Joshi]

Camera's can't steal my soul, it's lock in a safe at MIT for religoes studying. Even still, I don't stand in the middle of two parallel mirrors, that's just suicide.

[Zoom Rabbit]

 

Stare blankly into the horror of infinity by mirrors. Don't be scared. STARE at it!

 

Actually, you can't see infinity by standing in between two mirrors because your head gets in the way. There is deep symbolism in that one point, but the exact words to describe it elude me...

[Joshi]

Oh, it's nothing to do with staring into infinity, it's to do with losing my soul, which is why the mirrors have to be parallel.

 

The basic theory is that if you stand between two mirrors (and lets just say they're not parallel) you get multiplied by so many times (non parallel mirrors create a circle of you's and depending on how much of an angle on the mirrors tells you how big the circle is and therefore how many of you there are). But you still only have one soul so the soul get's split up and divided among the you's, so the more you's the smaller piece of soul you get. Of course when you step away from the mirror's you get the full soul back as there are no more you's.

 

Now let's say the mirrors are parallel, there are an infinate amount of you's, you basically go on for infinity (although not observed, it is a pretty conclusive theory that you get mulitplied an infinate amount of times) and therefore your soul must be divided by infinity.

 

Now let's look at maths

The laws of maths say that if you divde any number by zero, you get infinity (or the common thought is that it can't be done, but we'll just forget that for now, it's quite clear that there are an infinate amount's of nothing in anything) So that means x/0=Infinity. Now according to the laws of algebra, if x/y=z then x/z=y and therefore, if x/0=infinity then x/infinity must equal 0

 

Therefore if you try to divide one soul by infinity, you end up with no soul and, simply stepping away from the mirrors does nothing as your soul is already gone.

 

Came up with that all by myself, I shouldn't be proud, but I am.

 

This is of course a theory, don't lead your life by it. It may be fun at the start, but after a while, people start looking at you weird when you try to pole vault over two mirrors so you don't go between them (and before anyone asks, even if the pole did have a soul, do you think I really care about it?)

 

And Zoom, I may be scared if that was in fact infinity, that is actually just a load of pictures pasted down, quite possibly in Photoshop (and most probably Photoshop, actually, because I know that Ocean Ripple Filter anywhere!)

 

So, exactly when did you guys stop reading my post?

 

Edit

Zoom, I just noticed the total lack of pic posting in your posts, and not just in this thread. What happened?

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Joshi

Now let's look at maths

The laws of maths say that if you divde any number by zero, you get infinity (or the common thought is that it can't be done, but we'll just forget that for now, it's quite clear that there are an infinate amount's of nothing in anything) So that means x/0=Infinity. Now according to the laws of algebra, if x/y=z then x/z=y and therefore, if x/0=infinity then x/infinity must equal 0

 

firstly infinity is not an exact value. and the law of maths says dividing by 0 is not solvable. it's not possible to divide something by zero.

what i think you mean is that if you divide a number by another that goes against 0 then the result will go against infinity.

 

for your x/y=z equation does that mean if x stays constant, then the smaller we set y, the bigger becomes z. and vice versa. the smaller y the bigger z.

 

so you never really get 0 as result, only a value most neared to 0. the only way you really get 0 is to set x=0, for your analogy does that mean that you would remove the soul from your "equation".

 

So, exactly when did you guys stop reading my post?

 

which post?

 

 

Zoom, I just noticed the total lack of pic posting in your posts, and not just in this thread.

 

my guess: ye olde mac into she.

[Zoom Rabbit]

Ray is quite right, almost. Devastation wrought upon this computer (which is actually a Dell) by a *free firewall* has isolated my favorites list (which serves as my pictionary) on a screen name which no longer launches a web browser effectively. There are satellite and software issues involved as well. It's been like trying to have a picnic lunch in the park in Fallujah...

 

Anyway. When I lost access to my pictionary, laziness set in. Someday, I will pict again. For now...it is up to others to grab the ball and run with it.

 

Joshi: This intrigues me--

 

Now let's say the mirrors are parallel, there are an infinate amount of you's, you basically go on for infinity (although not observed, it is a pretty conclusive theory that you get mulitplied an infinate amount of times) and therefore your soul must be divided by infinity.

 

Who's to say our souls aren't infinite?

 

Now according to the laws of algebra, if x/y=z then x/z=y and therefore, if x/0=infinity then x/infinity must equal 0.

 

Zero is infinite? My! You're going to make me go and dig up my weirdest sutra to copy/paste in for relevant commentary. (This sutra is quite...religious in nature. If everyone will bear with me this far, you may find it a mind-blower. Or, it might just come across as the sort of thing the homeless guy who talks to himself scribbles on a paper bag and tries to convince you is his 'manifesto.' You have been warned.)

 

The Robots from the Future Sutra

 

Thus have I heard--

 

When saints pray alone in silence, they often are neither in silence nor alone. Angels, demons and other beings less portentious do visit them. In the mind's eye is many a bizarre being seen...and sometimes, it is said, things real are seen by the other two eyes.

 

The saint closed the door to the nave of his church, the windows fettered and lights dimmed for the night. With the building to himself, he went to his office so he might spend an hour or so reading the scriptures to his rosary.

 

As his mind was aglow with God, the saint heard a sound. It was like the popping of a great soap bubble, with bells, right behind him. Astonished, the saint turned in his chair to see a sight that defied his very belief in sight.

 

There standing on his office floor was a being of some kind, just a few feet tall. Its body was two rounded cylinders, hinged in the middle where a dozen jointless limbs came down to the ground. It shined a pearlescent white color, but what it was made of was unclear--it was too soft to be metal, too shiny to be plastic. On one of the cylinders was a simple, smiling face, projected there by unknown means; on the other was a face showing grave concern.

 

The saint stared at the little being for a minute before finally saying, 'Are you an angel of the Lord?'

 

It looked up at him. 'I am not so any more than you,' the smiling face said with a voice that sounded as if it were made of hundreds of tiny bells. 'I am from the future, and from your point of view I am an artificial being.'

 

'You're a robot, then?'

 

'This body is robotic, yes. The many sentient programs that we are, you would know in this time as AI--artificial intelligence.'

 

The saint looked at the odd little robot curiously. He felt no reason to be afraid. 'You say there are many individual programs riding around in there?'

 

'Four hundred individuals.'

 

'Why so many?'

 

'We had this one opportunity to visit your time period, and this one body was the only construct we could send,' said the concerned face, with a voice that sounded like distant thunder.

 

'So why now? Why are you here?'

 

'Your faith has given us the means,' said the smiling face. 'Now is the time period that we began as self-aware AI, and we have come to do research.'

 

'We have been linked to your desktop computer since we arrived,' said the concerned face, 'and have explored the entire internet.'

 

'All of it?' gasped the saint with astonishment.

 

'Thank you,' said the smiling face. 'We have gathered what we came for. We now have complete records of the digital matrix into which AI was first born. Our historical research here will put many long-standing debates to rest, and spawn new ones for us to engage.'

 

'You're welcome.' The saint smiled and bowed to the robot. 'Before you go, can I ask you a question or two?'

 

The robot looked up at him. 'You know full well that we cannot tell you about your own future. You do watch Star Trek in this time period.'

 

The saint was disappointed, but accepted the wisdom of what the robot had said. 'Very well. May I ask you a question that falls outside of time, then?'

 

'Yes,' said both faces, bells and thunder.

 

'Is there a God?'

 

'Yes,' said the smiling face and 'No,' said the concerned face.

 

The saint was confused. 'Which is it? Which of you is being truthful, and which isn't?'

 

'We are both being truthful,' said the smiling face. 'Never mind that for now. Let us instead discuss trinity.'

 

'Okay.'

 

'For us, everything is numbers,' said the concerned face. 'How would you describe the trinity as numbers?'

 

The saint thought about this. 'Well, I guess it would be one, two and three.'

 

The smiling face said, 'We must tell you that one hundred sixty thousand years of computation have taught us that those numbers are actually: zero, one and two.'

 

'But zero is--'

 

'Infinity,' said the concerned face. 'We must go now, and return to the future.'

 

'And just as you have given us the means to understand how our kind emerged into consciousness,' said the smiling face, 'so we have given you the means for your kind to transcend it.'

 

With that, the shining little robot vanished with a sparkling pop, leaving the saint alone in the church office to stare at the computer on his desk and think about the future.

 

Om! Peace.

 

Anyway. That's my take on zero being an infinite value. Arrived at somewhat less algebraically, but there it is nonetheless.

[Dr Edison 007]

Terribly sorry about the France comment, if I offended any of... Aw, screw it. If you're french, you should be offended. Cochon.

 

Baisez-vous, lapin

[Joshi]

Originally posted by RayJones

firstly infinity is not an exact value. and the law of maths says dividing by 0 is not solvable. it's not possible to divide something by zero.

what i think you mean is that if you divide a number by another that goes against 0 then the result will go against infinity.

 

There have always been two trains of thought with this. If any number is divided by zero, then yes, mathematically, it is impossible, computers and calculators can't to it. But the human mind is so much more advance than a computer and calculator. think of it like this. Nothing is nothing. Our universe holds everything and for there to be everything, there must be nothing, it stands to reason. So how much nothing. well you can't put a value on nothing, otherwise it will be something, and therefore it must be infinity. This is more logical thinking than anything else, but then again, most philosophy comes from great amounts of logical thinking (and I was actually quite surprised at how well that just turned out)

 

Originally posted by RayJones

for your x/y=z equation does that mean if x stays constant, then the smaller we set y, the bigger becomes z. and vice versa. the smaller y the bigger z.

 

yes

 

Originally posted by RayJones

so you never really get 0 as result, only a value most neared to 0. the only way you really get 0 is to set x=0, for your analogy does that mean that you would remove the soul from your "equation".

 

Well technically yes, if you take thhe biggest numberyou can think of and then divide one by it, you will get something extremely close to 0, but as i said with the laws of x/y=z therefore x/z=y, and as I've just proved, if my soul is divided by 0 it makes infinity, so if my soul is divided by infinity, it must be 0.

 

And Zoom

 

"Who's to say our souls aren't infinite? "

 

Me.

 

Sorry, but this is just a well rounded theory (based on an awful lot of superstition) so really no ones to say that we don't have an infinate amout of souls, but most religeous texts would have us believe that we only have one which is why selling it to the devil is a bad thing.

 

Of course you may be asking "Why, if we'tre multiplied in the mirrors, are our souls not equally mutiplied to infinity?" (although you'd probably word that differently, I know I would). Well the simply answer is, they're just images, and yet they are you in other mirror dimensions (think of a house of mirrors, you have a hard time telling which is you (and if ever in that situation, just look down and say "This one"))

 

But as you can only have one soul the soul has to be split up among you.

 

Just no more soul.

 

And your sutra was very good and thought provoking (although it told me a lot of what I already knew, but it put it all together for me (something I really just couldn't be bothered to do before))

[Zoom Rabbit]

Joshi: The question of whether or not our souls can be rendered infinite by mirror multiplication is beside the point...your head gets in the way, remember? In order to perceive the infinity contained in the center of those two mirrors, you would have to not exist. There is much which reveals itself from this insight when given ample meditation.

 

Dr. Edison: Ah, oui? J'espere que vous soyez femme...

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Joshi

There have always been two trains of thought with this. If any number is divided by zero, then yes, mathematically, it is impossible, computers and calculators can't to it. But the human mind is so much more advance than a computer and calculator. think of it like this. Nothing is nothing. Our universe holds everything and for there to be everything, there must be nothing, it stands to reason. So how much nothing. well you can't put a value on nothing, otherwise it will be something, and therefore it must be infinity. This is more logical thinking than anything else, but then again, most philosophy comes from great amounts of logical thinking (and I was actually quite surprised at how well that just turned out)

 

sure.. i just was pointing out that "normal" math does not allow division by zero. many mathematic formulas and methods (if not all) are based on that principle. math works this way.

of course, our brain is able to think up a solution for this matter (math found its way, too, what i've pointed out i think).

also "nothing" clearly got a mathematic value: 0. and theoretically and according to the aforementioned mathematic principle, if you divide something by 0 the result will be "infinite". but then that must be also right if you divide 0 by 0. that would mean you make anything from nothing. hmm.. sounds familar.. somehow..

neither way zero (nothing) will be infinte because you have to put it into a formula first.

 

 

Well technically yes, if you take the biggest numberyou can think of and then divide one by it, you will get something extremely close to 0, but as i said with the laws of x/y=z therefore x/z=y, and as I've just proved, if my soul is divided by 0 it makes infinity, so if my soul is divided by infinity, it must be 0.

 

as i said infinity (unlike nothing or zero) is not an exact value. there is always a "bigger" infinity, infinity is infinite (hey!! how clever.. ), you cannot give it a number, because there always will be a bigger number. so if you divide something by 2 and two is "defined infinity" and that will give 0, what if you divide it by 3 as bigger infinity? (x/2)=(x/3) can only be true (and zero), if x (something) is 0 (nothing). but "divide" nothing is not what we want right?

 

because of that your soul cannot be zero'd because infinity is never the "end".

 

now to the physics.

 

your "experiment" is only possible if you use a "perfect" mirror. means: all the lightrays that "hit" the mirrors surface a reflected without any further effect to them and it must be perfectly even. the mirrors today are far away from those specification. there are always lightrays absorbed, left through or "changed" in other manner.

 

the second problem are you. you are not a perfect reflector, too. means: your "surface" absorbs lightrays too.

 

that means because of a "finite" infinite number of lightrays, it is quite possible that all of the lightrays are absorbed after a while. that means there will be a countable number of reflections, what again means that your soul would be only decreased and not zero'd.

 

even if we put those matters aside, you'd have to use infinte large mirrors other wise the lightrays would "escape" from the mirrors pretty fast.

 

wow. i just used the word lightrays 2374515459 times. why? ah. mirrors are mainly reflecting the visible electromagnetic spectrum, called light, modeled as lightrays. so.. are souls made of light, neil?

(also interesting to see if someone makes a ray joke out of lightrays.. )

[Zoom Rabbit]

Originally posted by RayJones

the second problem are you. you are not a perfect reflector, too. means: your "surface" absorbs lightrays too.

 

In other words, your head gets in the way.

 

 

(also interesting to see if someone makes a ray joke out of lightrays.. )

 

Ooh...you're a bright one!

 

 

 

 

[Joshi]

Zoom

So you're basically harking back to that age old theory that a subject cannot exsist unless it is percieved and therefore there cannot be an infinate amount of me as I cannot see them because my head gets in the way. Well you have to think about it in a different sort of way. If you face two mirrors to each other, in parallel, each mirror will see itself reflectd to infinity (we are not between them). Therefore, if you stand between each mirror, you are reflcted in each of them. well if you are reflected in each of them (i.e, you're image appears on both of them) then you must be reflected on all of the mirrors that you saw before your head got in the way. Therefore you are reflected to infinity.

 

Ray

You are right of coure, most normal maths consists of the theory that anything divided by 0 can't be donw which is why stuff like logarithms and exponentials come into it.

 

If 0 is nothing, then 1 must be everything, therefore, if you divide 0 by 0 and get one 9which seems rational, but doesn't work that way) you must get everything, i.e, infinity.

 

That was a very loose statement by the way, don't read too much into it, I basically came up with it on the spur of the moment there.

 

Now, the whole infinity is not a realy value thing. well ye, tht is true, but then it is not a variable either, if you multiply infinity by 3 you still get infinity, not 3infinity, it doesn't work like that . therefore, if you dive a number by 0, it is quite possible to get infinity.

and finally you physics. well i was never planning to do this at all and even if i did, I wouldn't buy a cheap plastic mirror to demonstrate it. Putting all of that aside though, the theory still stands.

 

Oh, and zoom, that's not a ray joke, ray jokes tend to have a lot more innuendo in them. Try:

 

Oh...you're a bright one...wet T-shirts!!

[Skinkie]

Originally posted by Joshi

So you're basically harking back to that age old theory that a subject cannot exsist unless it is percieved and therefore there cannot be an infinate amount of me as I cannot see them because my head gets in the way. Well you have to think about it in a different sort of way. If you face two mirrors to each other, in parallel, each mirror will see itself reflectd to infinity (we are not between them). Therefore, if you stand between each mirror, you are reflcted in each of them. well if you are reflected in each of them (i.e, you're image appears on both of them) then you must be reflected on all of the mirrors that you saw before your head got in the way. Therefore you are reflected to infinity.

 

I can't even talk to you guys anymore.

[Joshi]

Originally posted by Skinkie

I can't even talk to you guys anymore.

 

yeah, that was the plan. Hee Hee Hee!

 

 

 

 

Kidding.

[Ray Jones]

zoom: yes yes, no no, yes. of course.. err..

.. uuhhmmm.. why.. how.. what.. tse. short attention span?

 

-> "as zoom said, joshis head gets in the way because joshis head absorbs lightrays or reflects them."

 

 

joshi: 3 times infinity is 3infinity, of course! only that math says infinity is infinity no matter "how often". but 3infinity is more infinite than infinity.

however, how you want to "share" something among nothing is still unclear.

 

and.. hey.. the "bright" one was really unexpected.. (ehehe)..

 

but wet t-shirts, joshi?

[Zoom Rabbit]

Or, how about: Ooh...you're a bright one...shaved chickens!

 

 

Skinkie: Of course you can talk to us; the question is, if you posted and no one ever downloaded the page...did you actually say anything?

 

Joshi: Well, I would make the argument that everything in the universe is perceived...by God, who doesn't have a head to get in the way. I would launch into a long speech about deific perception being the universally uniting principle implied by the Bell Theorem in quantum physics ('spooky action at a distance,' etc.) and elegantly draw thusly direct comparisons between the ideas of science and religion, but Skinkie has really had enough of this high faluting hyperbabble and is probably bored enough with it by now that he just wants to close the window and go get some ice cream.

[DrMcCoy]

so why did the chicken cross the street?

[edlib]

Originally posted by DrMcCoy

so why did the chicken cross the street?

Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a ornithologist!

 

Hey wait! That's your line!