USA Successor

[Doomie]

I hafta agree with ET that that sounds kinda lame. Then why is heaven there?

 

And another thing, who created heaven? was it God? Then why did he create Earth? Why was eating from that apple enough to send us there? What was so bad about it? Why were there already animals? They didn't do anything wrong. They should've stayed there.

 

Oh boy that was more off topic thhen i ever posted. But i'd like to know anyway.

[Lyrnx]

Originally posted by Doomgiver

I hafta agree with ET that that sounds kinda lame. Then why is heaven there?

 

And another thing, who created heaven? was it God? Then why did he create Earth? Why was eating from that apple enough to send us there? What was so bad about it? Why were there already animals? They didn't do anything wrong. They should've stayed there.

 

Oh boy that was more off topic thhen i ever posted. But i'd like to know anyway.

 

God created heaven with Earth. Before Earth there was nothing. Except for God. He got kinda bored with it so he decided to make Heaven and Earth.

 

Here's how the earth was made:

 

The Beginning

 

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was [1] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

 

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning-the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights-the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [2] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

 

27 So God created man in his own image,

in the image of God he created him;

male and female he created them.

 

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning-the sixth day.

 

Genesis 2

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

 

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [1] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

 

 

Adam and Eve

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

 

When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth [2] and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth [3] and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams [4] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man [5] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin [6] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. [7] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.

But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [9] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [10] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

 

"This is now bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called 'woman, [11] '

for she was taken out of man."

 

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame

 

The Fall of Man

 

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me-she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"

The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,

 

"Cursed are you above all the livestock

and all the wild animals!

You will crawl on your belly

and you will eat dust

all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity

between you and the woman,

and between your offspring [1] and hers;

he will crush [2] your head,

and you will strike his heel."

 

16 To the woman he said,

 

"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;

with pain you will give birth to children.

Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you."

 

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'

 

"Cursed is the ground because of you;

through painful toil you will eat of it

all the days of your life.

18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,

and you will eat the plants of the field.

19 By the sweat of your brow

you will eat your food

until you return to the ground,

since from it you were taken;

for dust you are

and to dust you will return."

 

20 Adam [3] named his wife Eve, [4] because she would become the mother of all the living.

21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [5] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

That's the creation of the earth, the creation of man, and the fall of man in NIV.

 

So what you're saying is, befor Jesus died, EVERYONE went to hell. So there were no people going to heaven for the thousands of years before Jesus' birth? God must have been lonely.

 

Noooooo. The Jews had to earn their way to Heaven by sacrifices and such. But when Jesus came they didn't have to do that anymore. But the denied that Jesus is the Messiah so that's why they still do this stuff today. But if you do not accept that Christ died on the cross to pay your sindebt and rose on the thrid day then yes you are going to Hell. But if you do then your going to Heaven. I could sit here and type all about Heaven till this post is full and i still wouldn't scratch it.

 

 

They're just following their harts!

 

No they are following their lustful thoughts thinking that it is their heart. Their heart wouldn't want them to be gay.

 

 

"If gay marriage is legal, everyone in the world is going to be gay and we're doomed". Are YOU planning on jumping on the nearest guy to you once gay marriage is legal? Just because it's legal doesn't mean everyone will do it.

 

But it would influence it.. and no. I have no plans on jumping on any man. (Unless i am falling and he happens to be in the way)

 

 

Lyrnx

[Hiroki]

Close. Thread. Please. I do not want to see ANY of this crap in here. Must we have a religious debate in EVERY forum?!

[Doomie]

That's got to be the friggin longest post i ever saw!

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by Lyrnx

No they are following their lustful thoughts thinking that it is their heart. Their heart wouldn't want them to be gay.

 

 

But it would influence it.. and no. I have no plans on jumping on any man. (Unless i am falling and he happens to be in the way)

 

Firstly, you have NO idea what their hearts want. So you can NOT judge that atall.

 

Secondly, why would it influence it? It's not like it's ILLEGAL to be Gay right now, so what difference would it have? And if YOU don't plan on becoming gay once gay marriage is legal, why would OTHER people who aren't gay decide to change? It's not like we're planning on making straight marriage illegal.

 

That's got to be the friggin longest post i ever saw!

That's because we got a big ol copy n paste of genesis of the Bible, which was a waste because nobody will read it.

[Ray Jones]

ah.. look .. a religious debate far from the senate..

 

Originally posted by ET Warrior

That's because we got a big ol copy n paste of genesis of the Bible, which was a waste because nobody will read it.

 

..except for the first sentence.. (lol)

 

 

Uh no... First you gotta accept that you are a sinner, and that Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose again on the third day and trust Him as your Lord and Saviour.

 

XD i find it funnier every time i hear it.

 

and everytime i realize that someone really believes this it makes me really, really sad..

 

and errm.. i'm far from offending anyone.. but people like those, who really believe the stuff that was just posted will doom mankind one day. not gays.

 

see it's ok if you guys want to lead a "better life" and want to be helpful and whatnot.. but you do not need someone to tell you, you should do so or you go to hell if you dont. you can do it all "on your own". if you stop praising your lord half the day you could do much more better things than you can do now..

 

religion wastes your time.

 

i dont do things for "god". i do them for mankind.

 

..

 

as for the topic..

 

i think i have to agree with mort-hog here..

 

and after all.. all the countries are on one earth.. so does this really matter?

[Doomie]

true words ray... true words. And yes, i think this thread was ready to go to the senate since the second post. WEll i'm no beleiver as well but to think it's sad, uhm alright... to say out loud that you think it's sad is a bit... you know. But i don't know the word for it.

[Ray Jones]

err.. i did not say it is sad, i said it makes me sad.

 

i never would say it is sad. but i rather would say it aloud than thinking it.

 

[Doomie]

ah ok. that's alright then.

[Lyrnx]

So you're thinking God is funny? Ha ha ha ha ha.... *ahem* He does have a bit of humor in Him, but wait till Judgement Day comes... You'll be regreting every word you said about that.

 

 

 

Here's the entire answer that sums up Americas situation. Our forefathers would be ashamed that they even made this place away from Britain.

 

Anyone know of Soddom and Gommorrah? Well the story goes that Sodd and Gorr were so evil that God smote the two cities to ashes. The closer this world gets to being like those cities, the closer the Rapture is. And the Rapture I am greatly looking forward to.....

 

 

 

Lyrnx

[Doomie]

So you're thinking God is funny? Ha ha ha ha ha.... *ahem* He does have a bit of humor in Him, but wait till Judgement Day comes... You'll be regreting every word you said about that.

 

What? What'd i do?

[yaebginn]

Religion isnt a joke. I mean, God is an awesome person. He's loving, caring, nice and all. And he loves you, even if you hated him, he'd still love you, like a sheep gone astray to a shepherd. But if you dont accpet and embrace his love, he will send you to hell, where there is eternal pain, suffereing, and the ternal seperation from God.

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by yaebginn

.. But if you dont accpet and embrace his love, he will send you to hell, where there is eternal pain, suffereing, and the ternal seperation from God..

 

(we have now 2004/07/12 )

 

i dont care going to hell because i am not afraid of it. bah. i fear other things than those where it's not even sure (for me) if they exist.

if your "god" has something to say then, please, he can "show up" and tell me his "divine" opinion, but he does not. period. (dont tell me "he" is everywhere, i know that stuff.)

 

i will not regret anything nor will i waste my time and power (and, of course, my money .. ) for someone/thing "who" doesnt even tries to make this world a better place.

yes, i have love and much more to give, but not for a god. yes, i do care about other people and respect them, but why should i need a god (or church) to tell me i should? my mind is strong enough to lead me through life without that i start whining everytime something is harder than expected.

i can live a good and creative life without worshipping anything. i can think for my own. i dont need a religious brainwash.

 

and this is what makes me sad. why doesnt mankind get that a peaceful together, taking care of each other and living a "good" life has nothing to do with a god or religion?? pah.

 

without religion mankind could be 500 years ahead of where it's now.

[yaebginn]

and thats what makes me sad. Knowin that when you die, unless you turn around, you're going to hell. That makes me sad. You dont grasp what Hell is. We tell people to go there in our daily life, but if we grasped what it was, we'd cringe everytime we heard the name. I dont even want Sadam Hussein to go there, its so horrible.

[Mort-Hog]

Oh wow, time to set things straight.

 

"Lifestyle" and "religion" are not mutually exclusive.

 

'Religion' dictates how you live your life, not just what you believe. Semantically, a 'religion' is the organised worship of one or more gods. Buddhism is not a religion.

You are not a Christian if you just claim to be one, you are a Christian if you live your life to Christian standards.

Lots of people claim to be 'moderate' Christians and believe 'parts' of the Bible and not others. No, Christianity is one package, you either accept all of it or none of it.

 

I do like to add this whenever Christianity comes up... Why are you a Christian?

God came to the prophet Abraham, who started the Jewish following. After 2000 years, they meandered away from God and He sent the prophet Jesus Christ, who, after his death, started the Christian following. After just 700 years, God came to the prophet Muhammed (saws). As it took only 700 years, it makes me think that the Christians got something very wrong very quickly. And as God has not come to any other prophet since then, it makes perfect sense to assume that Islam is the word of God.

Islam overrides Christianity, Islam is the new and updated word of God. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

 

If you are to believe in God, you should be a muslim. To be a Jew or a Christian is to deny God Himself.

 

Of course, that is a pretty big "if".

 

 

Modern society does not need Christianity. Individuals cater for their individual beliefs. Christianity does not make people happy. The wholly illogical argument against homosexuality is one example of this. People are increasingly questioning everything around them, and are not happy with believing something just because it says in an old mistranslated book. Why is homosexuality wrong?

Because the Bible says so.

That is not a logical or sensible answer.

People are questioning Christianity, some turn away and others stick to it.

 

Americans tend to the latter. Christian fundementalism is stronger in southern America than anywhere else in the world.

This thread itself is an example of how Americans refuse to question themselves, when the rest of the world do so daily.

Religion and the state should always be completely separate. Even the founding fathers of America knew that. If the two are linked, then you are left with a feudal state of a religious dictatorship, with the Government said to be divinely inspired. Dubya doesn't need majority vote, he is placed there by God! And as Christians refuse to question Christianity, they too will refuse to question their government.

Yes, the conservative American media love to paint itself as the example of freedom for the world over, and Americans love to lap up that lie. The world hates America, and the world is laughing at America.

 

Europe has for many centuries had atheist governments and has developed society in the interests of the happiness of their people, with change and development being the key. America has stuck to the same 'traditional values' for centuries and refused change. It is this that has left America 11 trillion dollars in debt. 11 trillion dollars.

 

 

Oh, and I already told you, I am from Bulgaria. I don't see how this assumption makes any difference whatsoever. I am not comparing country X with America, I am comparing the world with America.

[yaebginn]

America was built on Christian beliefs and still follows them and is one of the youngest countries. But its the most powerful, the richest, has the strongest military. It's also free and we talk normal. I dont know all about the muslim religion, so I wont debate with you on why its wrong. I know and believe that God is real, for the wonderful things he's done in my life. and yours, but you wont allow yourself to see it. You'll just say, 'Ooh, got lucky there'

[Doomie]

And he loves you, even if you hated him, he'd still love you, like a sheep gone astray to a shepherd. But if you dont accpet and embrace his love, he will send you to hell, where there is eternal pain, suffereing, and the ternal seperation from God.

 

That sounds really loving...

 

But alright, i see the thread has shifted back to America a bit. Again. Mort-hog is making some pretty good points, but so is Yaeb. There are a lot of stories about miraculous cures by the hand of God, and even if it wasn't God, but merely the believing (subconscious and thoughts and stuff can do more than you might think) it's a good example of religions being good for something. About America... that's a bad example.

[tFighterPilot]

I didn't read the whole thread, cuz that would take a lot of time, but I love dem "saying how bad america is" threads, especially when there are americans in them

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by yaebginn

And he loves you, even if you hated him, he'd still love you, like a sheep gone astray to a shepherd. But if you dont accpet and embrace his love, he will send you to hell, where there is eternal pain, suffereing, and the ternal seperation from God.

 

THIS is the part that really gets me going. I mean honestly, how can you believe that a deity who LOVES you would damn you to an eternity of suffering just because you chose to spend your time HELPING the other people he loves, as opposed to worshipping him? I know what love is, sir. And that is NOT love. I love my family, I love my friends, and I love my girlfriend. I would NEVER, EVER do anything that would cause pain or suffering to any one of those people, even for a few minutes, let alone all of eternity.

 

 

I also am impressed at the way that everything good that happens in your lives is the result of God's intervention, but the bad things are just random crap that happened, God had nothing to do with it.

[Doomie]

Hey, you nkow Islam was founded by some guy that learned about Judaism and Christianity, but thought how they could be improved and started his own religion? Islam means: 'surrendering to God' or something like that. Now if your God really cared about that sort of thing, wouldn't all islamitic countries be destroyed like those two cities? Furthermore, it proves that Jezus could've very well been an ordinary guy that just wanted some attention, or better yet, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and people started worshipping him. (Go watch life of brian to give you a general idea). Then people could've made up the rest, like ghost stories.

 

Let's start a new religion! Worship the lord GL! Starwars is our holy 'book'!

[tFighterPilot]

Originally posted by Doomgiver

Hey, you nkow Islam was founded by some guy that learned about Judaism and Christianity, but thought how they could be improved and started his own religion? Islam means: 'surrendering to God' or something like that. Now if your God really cared about that sort of thing, wouldn't all islamitic countries be destroyed like those two cities? Furthermore, it proves that Jezus could've very well been an ordinary guy that just wanted some attention, or better yet, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and people started worshipping him. (Go watch life of brian to give you a general idea). Then people could've made up the rest, like ghost stories.

 

Let's start a new religion! Worship the lord GL! Starwars is our holy 'book'!

Jesus was born jewish, and died jewish, christianity can't be blamed on him. He only wanted to change judaism.

[B1GC]

Darth, you hit the nail on the head. Everyone's goal in life should be to better themselves and their Community. I do live in America and yes I geuss I am somewhat bias in my opinion of the US, but in thinking about that everyone else has the same right in whatever country they come from.

 

I am not here to say America is the best or anything like that, but I think I am correct in saying that almost everyone in the world knows who our President is..No? That must mean something. So many people not only in this thread, but in forums and newspapers and magazines all over the world criticize how we run things and how our system works. We always get blamed for everything and we never do anything right.

 

So many people from all around the world have opinions about the US in one way or another, but to be truthful how many other countries around the world get that same attention? China...maybe? Iraq...maybe? Europe...maybe? but not to the same degree that we get criticized. I know that we do some stupid stuff and we can not appease everyone all the time...we try, but to no avail.

 

While the world continues to spin I say we try to focus on things we have influence on, and try to live in that little piece of world that you do.

 

Tomorrow the world will still be here...I hope.

[Doomie]

but I think I am correct in saying that almost everyone in the world knows who our President is..No?

 

Can say the same about Jack the Ripper...

[yaebginn]

Actaully, he doesnt really send us there. We choose to go there. if I said he sends us there b4, I was mistaken. If we dont accpet him and join him, then we go to Hell because we just didnt go to heaven. Its our choice. wrong. bad things to us arent just crappy luck. God could be punishing us for doing something, as a father punsihes his son, Satan could be tempting us, trying to become discouraged, or It could just be that it happened because we were disobedient and if we followe God's way, we wouldnt be in the trouble, or it could be that we were obedient and we are being persecuted for loving Christ. All of those has happened to me before. and Christianity is Jesuss 'fault' He created it by living. Before Judeism(sp?) was the right way to go, but then he came and Judeism 'evolved' into Christianity. It's like a tv show. Friends for example. it was going great. Getting good ratings, being a good show. Then it ended and evolved to focus on one character, making the show Joey, premering this Fall. There is nothing wrong with Friends, it just changed to make something better. It's debatable on whether Joey will be better than Friends, but you get my point.

[B1GC]

Mort,

you say "the conservative American media" and I am here to say that there is absolutly nothing conservative about our media...its extremly liberal my friend and a reader can only beleive about half of everything that is said.

 

o and 1 other thing for you Mort,

By you saying that Islam is the true faith above and beyond Christianity and Judiasm is a waht every faith believes. Every religon beleives it is the correct religon, if it didn't it would not exist.

 

But one thing I have noticed...every forum that I have entered where there is an Islamic person, he/she always finds a way to say exactly what you just said. why do Islamic people always try to paint a bias picture in everyones head? Is it because it is one of the goals of your religon, just like communism...to spread?

 

 

My opinion is that Muslims just need to relax and stopped feeling so threatened all the time.