yaebginn Posted July 14, 2004 Author Share Posted July 14, 2004 God wouldnt say that because he created women and said that they were good. It is also a sin to murder and that is murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Ok... so that was a bad example... but you probably get the point right? I'm only trying to find a better one, only i hardly know anything of the bible... Alright: If he would say jews were evil, would you hate jews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 14, 2004 Author Share Posted July 14, 2004 Jews are God's chosen people. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabez Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Good point, Doomgiver! Originally posted by yaebginn There is no higher set of morals above God because he is the top, he just creates morals. He is the morals. Whatever he says goes because he is perfect and made everything. Right, so let's go back to my original question - "Are things good because God says they are, or does God simply command things which are good?" originally you went with the latter, but now you seem to have changed your mind and gone with the former. It is just as problematic, though. If "whatever he says goes", then what would happen if He said that killing is right? Would that actually make it OK? If God said that stripping a boy of six, raping him and then cutting his limbs off in front of his family was okay, would that suddenly become "good"? Your statement suggest that it would, but it surely, surely wouldn't. Jeeze in the time it took to read all the replies and click the post button, it seems that ten other people have made exactly that same point. But whatever, I'll post this anyway, and I apoligise for repeating others. Another point: why do you think that Santa Claus is fake and God is real? In terms of proof, both are equal. "The whole reason for sex is to multiply in umbet. We dont always use it for that, but thats the whole reason it was made for. And gays are useless" If the whole reason to have sex is to multiply, then by that logic, you would also rule out contraception (like the Pope) - but surely protection is good because it reduces STDs and pregnacies? To me, thinking that gays are evil just because of a few lines in the Bible is lunacy - it's very easy to misinterpret the lines, and many of it could have been mistranslated or changed by scholars over the thousands of years. Instead, I think it is more important to go with the GENERAL message of the Bible, not the exact wording - i.e. love (agape love) your fellow human, and don't condemn him, whatever he might do. Saying that someone is evil because they happen to feel the way about men as you feel about women seems to go against Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Jews are God's chosen people. Try again. I always thought christians wnated to turn jews because at the day of reckoning only the christians whould go to heaven or something. But you are following the meaning of the letter, why you should follow the meaning of the word. Let's not get picky, you knwo what a mean... Alright, muslims then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort-Hog Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 For things to change, people have to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tFighterPilot Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Originally posted by Mort-Hog For things to change, people have to die. That's the american way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabez Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 I disagree - death is a catalyst, and is sometimes required for short-term change, but it ultimately is limited in changing everything. But I've been through this with Mort on IRC, so I don't want to go into it here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Originally posted by Gabez I disagree - death is a catalyst, and is sometimes required for short-term change, but it ultimately is limited in changing everything. But I've been through this with Mort on IRC, so I don't want to go into it here too. Agreed. Death is pretty much a temporary catalyst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 God wouldnt say that, becase it contradicts his word. and santa has been proved impossible time and time again, God hasnt. I'm actually not for celibacy or anything like that and about the protection thing, I've said before, sex was made to increase the population, not pleseure, ruling out the need for tht kind of protection. And I never agreed to either the former or the later, I've agreeed with none of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tFighterPilot Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by yaebginn God wouldnt say that, becase it contradicts his word. and santa has been proved impossible time and time again, God hasnt. I'm actually not for celibacy or anything like that and about the protection thing, I've said before, sex was made to increase the population, not pleseure, ruling out the need for tht kind of protection. And I never agreed to either the former or the later, I've agreeed with none of those. But USA is democracy, so it's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyrnx Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by Doomgiver I always thought christians wnated to turn jews because at the day of reckoning only the christians whould go to heaven or something. They won't go in the Rapture. The only Jews that will be raptured ar the ones that beleive that Christ is the Son of God will. but true jews won't until Christ's second coming at the end of the world. Gabez... I find it hard to beleive that you are a Jesus Lover like your title states... Lyrnx (has left his mark) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 Yeah, but in the OT, Jews were God's chosen people, but now that Jesus was born, Christianity is the way to go. I believe Gabez is mocking us. Trying to get a rise out of us, just ignore him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 No, don't ignore him. He may not be a jeesus lover, but he brings up soem of the best points in this thread. They won't go in the Rapture. The only Jews that will be raptured ar the ones that beleive that Christ is the Son of God will. but true jews won't until Christ's second coming at the end of the world That's what i was talking about. And since you must love your fellow men, you should turn them since you want them to go to heaven... Uhm, why was i trying to make this point again? Mort-hog, how'd you get a custom title with 176 posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 g.o.d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 You're not making much sense there buddy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 err.. i meant m.o.d. .. either he got it or he can do it himself. both ways there is a mod or admin involved.. i think. but is that important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Yeah, let's get back on topic then shall we? Oh yes, i remember what point i was trying to make: You guys follow god blindly, simply because God is good. But is it Good because he says so, or can't he do evil things? He should be able to, otherwise he's not all-powerful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xirion Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 2/3 are OVERWEIGHT! And that is correct, however there is a huge difference between OVERWEIGHT and OBESE OVERWEIGHT= When your weight doesnt match your Height/weight ratio thingee So i.e if you work out and have more muscle mass therefor weigh more then the height weight ratio, you are over weight, your not fat, but your weight isnt realitive to your height OBESE= over flowing And i vote for Norway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 alright: 1) i hope you're not doing that just because you live there, and 2) we've shifted to a far more interesting topic ages ago... well actually two topics... How many topics are we dealing with in this thread anyway? EDIT: Now expalin to me CLEARLY what obese is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tFighterPilot Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by Doomgiver alright: 1) i hope you're not doing that just because you live there, and 2) we've shifted to a far more interesting topic ages ago... well actually two topics... How many topics are we dealing with in this thread anyway? EDIT: Now expalin to me CLEARLY what obese is... Well there's the original topic, which didn't last, the topic about how america is worse than the rest of the world, which went pretty good, all this dandy religious talk, and wether terrorists are ok or not. That's about it I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Whatever, the God topic is by far the most interesting. Y'know what? Let's make a new thread about it in the senate! Afterall, that's where it belongs... EDIT: On the otehr hand, let's not do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by Doomgiver .. is it Good because he says so, or can't he do evil things? He should be able to, otherwise he's not all-powerful... if there is something like "god", who says it's a "he" or "she" (read: person or an entity)? how can we be sure there is "someone" doing some thing? i cannot see why there should be the possibility that it's more like something causing some thing (everything we know and not know). to the good and bad topic. "seen" from the viewpoint of the universe (err.. no matter how many there are or whatever, i just talk about the whole thing), there is neither good or bad. there are just things happening. if earth explodes what does it mean to the universe? how can it be good or bad? if 2 million people die because of war or a terrorist act, what does it mean to the universe? nothing. i mean it has no "moral effect" to anyone else that us. i am not even sure if any animal on this planet is effected by it in any concerns (except those we dominated perhabs..). there is of course a social morality we made up, but there no universal morality. our morality has only a meaning to us. i is not necessarily appliable to other lifeforms on this earth or in this universe. who says what is good or bad? we. why is it bad to kill (murder) someone? because we dont want to get killed ourselfes. why is stealing bad? because we dont want that our things get stolen. why should i be nice to others? because we want to be treated nice by others. .. i think you get the point. real morality comes if i treat others like i "want" to be treated. that is of course very simple expressen,but it is in fact my view of what real morality is about. so morality comes from the individuals of a social group and not from someone else. of course anyone could write it dont, step upon a milk crate and wave it around proclaiming "hey, i got a bunch-o-laws to follow for ya.". and of course everybody would say "hey. that sounds good. i fully understand and support that. that guy who wrote it is a genius!". than there is this "anti gay morality" (for example). this is simply what happens if misunderstanding, ignorance, lack of experience and fear of the unknown get together. i have understanding why there were times where it seemed strange to the young human race on it's way "seperating" from the rest of the animals. but like "same sex sex" is not uncommon between animals i am very sure i wasnt uncommon between early humans. on our way to discover the world with our "new, self conscious" eyes there might have been a point where it seemed .. strange. just like we were "afraid" of lightnings and earthquakes and whatever. mainly because we didnt quite understand what's going on. of course we still are afraid of lightnings and earthquakes nowadays, but in a different way. we consider it as kind of dangerous. but we mostly understand those "phenomenons" now. and we have developed a far wider understanding and knowledge about our sexuality (and body). of course gay sex is not "useable" to multiply, but it surely isnt more "dangerous" than heterosex. it brings the same "dangers" with it. except one.. you cant get pregnant. (what doesnt seenm to be a danger at all, but i hope you get my meaning..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tFighterPilot Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Originally posted by RayJones if there is something like "god", who says it's a "he" or "she" (read: person or an entity)? how can we be sure there is "someone" doing some thing? i cannot see why there should be the possibility that it's more like something causing some thing (everything we know and not know). to the good and bad topic. "seen" from the viewpoint of the universe (err.. no matter how many there are or whatever, i just talk about the whole thing), there is neither good or bad. there are just things happening. if earth explodes what does it mean to the universe? how can it be good or bad? if 2 million people die because of war or a terrorist act, what does it mean to the universe? nothing. i mean it has no "moral effect" to anyone else that us. i am not even sure if any animal on this planet is effected by it in any concerns (except those we dominated perhabs..). there is of course a social morality we made up, but there no universal morality. our morality has only a meaning to us. i is not necessarily appliable to other lifeforms on this earth or in this universe. who says what is good or bad? we. why is it bad to kill (murder) someone? because we dont want to get killed ourselfes. why is stealing bad? because we dont want that our things get stolen. why should i be nice to others? because we want to be treated nice by others. .. i think you get the point. real morality comes if i treat others like i "want" to be treated. that is of course very simple expressen,but it is in fact my view of what real morality is about. so morality comes from the individuals of a social group and not from someone else. of course anyone could write it dont, step upon a milk crate and wave it around proclaiming "hey, i got a bunch-o-laws to follow for ya.". and of course everybody would say "hey. that sounds good. i fully understand and support that. that guy who wrote it is a genius!". than there is this "anti gay morality" (for example). this is simply what happens if misunderstanding, ignorance, lack of experience and fear of the unknown get together. i have understanding why there were times where it seemed strange to the young human race on it's way "seperating" from the rest of the animals. but like "same sex sex" is not uncommon between animals i am very sure i wasnt uncommon between early humans. on our way to discover the world with our "new, self conscious" eyes there might have been a point where it seemed .. strange. just like we were "afraid" of lightnings and earthquakes and whatever. mainly because we didnt quite understand what's going on. of course we still are afraid of lightnings and earthquakes nowadays, but in a different way. we consider it as kind of dangerous. but we merely understand those "phenomenons". of course gay sex is not "useable" to multiply, but it surely isnt more "dangerous" than heterosex. it brings the same "dangers" with it. except one.. you cant get pregnant. Very good essay indeed. I'd like to add. Yaeg, do you also think that hetrosex with contraceptives are wrong also? Cuz you can't get pregnant from it. BTW, Mort, love your new sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 did you really need to quote it all? you did it while i edited and now you didn't quote the changes. nobody would have noticed, but now that i've said it, everyone will. life's so mean. :D:D ps.. mort's sig is old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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