USA Successor

[Doomie]

My 'bad luck' exists out of big assholes making fun of me and pushing em around because they're stupid and big and i'm smart and rather small. I don't suppose the Lord would change their entire beings if i started believing in them?

 

EDIT: Damn, you beat me to it! But seriously, he's pretty much right. First, there was judaism. it evolved into Christianity. So then that was the right thing to belive in. Then it evolved further into Islam.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by B1GC

you say "the conservative American media" and I am here to say that there is absolutly nothing conservative about our media...its extremly liberal my friend and a reader can only beleive about half of everything that is said.

 

...say what? Our media is LIBERAL? Are you kidding me? There is nothing liberal about our media these days my friend.

 

 

 

@yaebginn - Well if I get to CHOOSE if I'm going to heaven or hell, I choose heaven. I just don't understand why anyone would choose hell over heaven, they must be stupid.

 

And I guess you're saying that God caused 9/11 to happen, so why are we going after the terrorists? I mean, they were just acting out God's will weren't they? We needed to be punished for our sinful behaviors.

[tFighterPilot]

Yaeb, you say that America is so strong for the time it exists, but Israel, the day it was declered, was attacked by all arab countries around, and we won. So Israel > America x99999999

[yaebginn]

No, I believe Sept 11 was Satan working through the terrorists who believe a false religion. and you say 'oh, its stupid to choose hell over heaven' but thats what you're doing. by not accpeting God as your heavenly father and savior, thats what you are doing, choosing hell.

[B1GC]

The media is so liberal you can't even tell. When was the last thing that you heard good from the war in Iraq. The media tries so hard to not put good things about the war in the news becasue it makes Bush look good and that is the last thing the media wants. You never hear about Bush doing anything good...but have you notcied gas prices going down? ive see a 50 cent per gallon decrease. The economy is doing well and unemployment is down. No I am not a Bush fan or a Kerry fan they are both idiots. I am a McCain fan.

 

Besides all that lets think abou thow you get into the media. Most Newspaper, tv, and magazine writers are what? journalists. And where do you get a degree in journalism? A liberal arts school. and just like the name says...LIBERAL. The only conservative News station is FOX news. ABC, CNN, CBS, MSNBC....all liberal.

[Doomie]

Yaebginn, you're saying that if i say 'God created everything', wich i do, since i'm only for 95% Atheist, I'm going to heaven? Sweet!

[Lyrnx]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

And I guess you're saying that God caused 9/11 to happen, so why are we going after the terrorists? I mean, they were just acting out God's will weren't they? We needed to be punished for our sinful behaviors.

 

Wrong. Islam is NOT and I repeat NOT involved with anything with God. God let's things happen. Sometimes He says Yes to some things and sometimes He says No, whichever is better for the cause.

 

Or

 

Satan was most likely the guilty culprit for 9/11. Tempting Bin-Laden to do it. Satan has many powers on this rock. Satan started "The Mother Church". Twisting Christianity into Cathlocism.(sp?) God has nothing to do with Muhammed or Allah. The Korran is a phony book of lies made by the Devil himself. Only the Bible is the true Holy Book. Even now, Satan is here making you think that Allah and God are one. He is wily and will not stop until you decline Almighty God. But noooo, he won't stop there. Here's his plans for the future:

 

When millions of people dissappear out of nowhere the event known as the Rapture has occured. And the beginning of the Seven Year Tribulation...

During the Tribulation Satan will get a person, born from Romania, to claim that he is the Christ. Everyone, even Israel, will like him. the Anti-Christ (or the Beast in Revalations) will sign a treaty with Israel to have protection from the plans ahead. The Beast will make a sign (666) and whoever doesn't have it on their foreheads will be unable to buy or sell items. From Heaven God will unleash his wrath by seven seals.

 

Revelation 6:

"The Seals

 

1I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" 2I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

3When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, "Come!" 4Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.

5When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart[1] of wheat for a day's wages,[2] and three quarts of barley for a day's wages,[3] and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

7When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!" 8I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

12I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

 

After that The Beast will get all nations to come together at Megiddo (Hebrew for Armegeddon) and that is when the Lord God will come out of heaven and kill everyone who has the Beast's mark. The few amount of Christians that beleive in God and survived the Seven Year Tribulation will go to the Lord's Millenia reign on earth. after that God will make a new heaven and a new earth. One that will not end.

 

 

Yaebginn, you're saying that if i say 'God created everything', wich i do, since i'm only for 95% Atheist, I'm going to heaven? Sweet!

 

Nope. You gotta trust in God as your Lord and Saviour to get to Heaven...

 

 

Lyrnx

[Doomie]

Alright fine. I do that too! When i'm in serious trouble, i pray to Him! So i'm gonna go to heaven...

 

About that sign on the forehead stuff: won't the christians help eachother? There are so many of them. What kinda trial is that?

[ET Warrior]

Stop posting verses from the bible, if you want us to read it, post a link to wherever your copy and pasting from, because it takes up space, and we don't want to read it, because there is NO proof that your book is ANY more right than the Koran, or the Lord of the Rings.

 

 

I dont like the way you Christians get to change the rules to exclude people. First it was that God sends us to hell, but then I pointed out the fallacy of that and suddenly I choose to go to hell, but I don't want to choose Hell, that's just dumb. But then I don't get to choose where I'm going.....

 

Sometimes He says Yes to some things and sometimes He says No, whichever is better for the cause.

But I thought God already had the master plan that nobody can change...so why would he need to say yes or no? He'll just let things happen exactly as they're supposed to.

[tFighterPilot]

My GOD christians are more stupid than I thought. The whole believing in god because if you don't god will send you to hell is ****ing dumb. It's not a reason.

[B1GC]

Christians belief that everyone is placed on earth as a test...yes life is a test, it obvios where you go if you pass or fail. It is a simple test though...if you truly love God and ask for forgiveness of your sins and you truly mean it then you will go to heaved...if not hell.

 

When the rapture comes all the true christians will disappear all at once (this includes children and mentally handicaped). Basically this is all the good on the earth and all at once things go into chaos becasue all the nonbelievers will be left. At this point all those left have seven years to correct thier lives and live for Jesus and love God. during this time the world will become one ruled by the devil himself. After the seven years the Lord and his angels will meet the devil and his angels on one battlefield and destroy him.

 

Many of these things are already happening. Europe is already forming into one nation with the Euro doller. Talks are already commencing of rebuilding the temple of Soloman, which happens to be the samn location of the Dome of the Rock. The Book of Revaltions speaks of many things that are already happening today. Funny how it was written thousands of years ago. The Bible is being proven to be true every day.

 

Doesnt say much for the Quran does it. Many say it is the book of the devil himself, to confuse the truth with his ways....do i beilief it? I just dont know, what about you?

[Doomie]

Things like that scare me...

 

So, if i want to go to heaven, and say, that rapture is tomorrow, what should i do?

[Ray Jones]

someone really lies. honestly.

 

it really exceeds my understanding how some of you people can sit in front of a computer and post this stuff in an internet forum. how can you use and rely to the inventions and advantages of science if you completely deny it's results in such a wide spectrum?

 

and if i die, i die. my body dies and rottens away. even if there is a soul that goes whereever, there cannot be any pain, because pain is some information "produced" by my long rotten body, which isnt connected to my soul anymore in any way. pain is there to protect me from hurting myself (my body). it's simple: no body, no pain.

 

if i ever will go to "hell", there may be everything included naked girls dancing. but not pain.

 

so you may be scared by hell, but hey.. accept, respect and tolerate that i am not. open your eyes. there is enough to be afraid of. while you have a body.

[Gabez]

I wish you guys did Philosophy of Religion like I do. Here are a few thoughts to make an theist’s head spin:

 

The Judeo-Christian God is all-powerful, all-knowing and all-loving. BUT:

 

If God is all-powerful, can He create an object that's too heavy for Him to lift?

If He is timeless, then how can He think or act outside of time, because time is necessary for thought and act?

If God is all knowing, then that means He knows what you will do tomorrow – and if He knows that, then there is no free will, because you are not free to do what you will do tomorrow. If there is no free will then we are just robots under God.

If God is all-loving, then why is there evil in this world? Either he is loving but unable to fix evil (so not all powerful) or all-powerful but unwilling to fix evil (not all loving).

If God can do anything, can He create a square circle?

Why did God allow the Hollocaust?

If God created the universe, then what created him? If we just say that He is neccesary and not contingent, then this is a move that is illogical. It would make more sense to say that the universe itself is neccesary, and to leave God out of it. Therefore God makes no logical sense.

Furthermore, God would surely want us to worship him out of our own free will (for it to be meaningful), but by having the concept of Heaven and Hell as understood by many posters in this thread, this is an unfair influrence on the way people think. Too many would be worhsiping God out of fear from going to Hell, as they have done in the past, which, you must agree, is the wrong reason to worship God. Therefore hell is a concept that is unrealistic to the nature and purpose of God.

 

Another point - it's all a load of bollocks. Creationist science is improvable, and other sciences are more realistic. Relgious language such as "God is good" is meaningless, so don't try and respond with that. Take the anaology of the garden in a jungle: two men come across it, one goes "there must be a gardener". The other goes "No, it's a coincidence. There can't possibly be a gardener in the jungle." So they decide to wait a day to see if a gardener comes. No-one arrives. "Ah", says the man "but the gardener obviously comes once a week" - so they wait a week. Still no gardner "Well he obviously is invisible" - so they set up nets - "well he;s obviously small enough to fit through the nets" ad infitium. The point is, whatever you say to a Christian fundemenalist such as the ones on this thread, they will still keep on going on with the same point, whilst refusing to take into consideration evidence of any kind. Therefore what they say is meaningless.

 

Also, on the subject of hell: most of you seem to have got your definition out of a Medieval book of theology. The modern Christian interpretation of Hell is being without God (whatever that means) and heaven is being with God (whatever that means). It makes no logical sense to say that God loves everyone and forgives everyone if you can suffer for eternity for a mere mistake.

[Doomie]

Yeah those are good calls. Sure, there's a ****load of crap in the holy books but there are also a lot of facts. and commandments. Maybe it's from a guy that was always beaten and stuff, and said: 'thy shall not kill!' Then his friends always went to the hookers and he had no money for it, and he was jealous, so he said: 'Thy shall not have sex outside of marriage' annd on and on... that could also be it. I mean, it's so long ago, how are we going to check?

[tFighterPilot]

Originally posted by Gabez

I wish you guys did Philosophy of Religion like I do. Here are a few thoughts to make an theist’s head spin:

 

The Judeo-Christian God is all-powerful, all-knowing and all-loving. BUT:

 

If God is all-powerful, can He create an object that's too heavy for Him to lift?

If He is timeless, then how can He think or act outside of time, because time is necessary for thought and act?

If God is all knowing, then that means He knows what you will do tomorrow – and if He knows that, then there is no free will, because you are not free to do what you will do tomorrow. If there is no free will then we are just robots under God.

If God is all-loving, then why is there evil in this world? Either he is loving but unable to fix evil (so not all powerful) or all-powerful but unwilling to fix evil (not all loving).

If God can do anything, can He create a square circle?

Why did God allow the Hollocaust?

If God created the universe, then what created him? If we just say that He is neccesary and not contingent, then this is a move that is illogical. It would make more sense to say that the universe itself is neccesary, and to leave God out of it. Therefore God makes no logical sense.

 

Also, on the subject of hell: most of you seem to have got your definition out of a Medieval book of theology. The modern Christian interpretation of Hell is being without God (whatever that means) and heaven is being with God (whatever that means). It makes no logical sense to say that God loves everyone and forgives everyone if you can suffer for eternity for a mere mistake.

Religious people have an answer to everything. For example, evil is because of the devil, and the holocaust was because the jews in europe sinned, and god was punishing them

[Gabez]

Okay, I updated my post with more stuff in the time it took you to reply. Go read it again.

 

The devil is a poor reason for evil. If you must know, then the only philisophically satisfying answer that I know of to the problem of evil is that God wants us to be perfect, and we can only become perfect through free will, therefore God can't intervene with our affairs, therefore evil is allowed, but eventaully everyone will be made perfect and the end will justify the means.

 

Problems with this: even if we're all perfect in the end, it still doesn't justufy a naked boy of six being ripped apart by hounds whilst his mother watches. There's no reason for that. Problem #2 is that if God is all powerful, surely He can intervine without ruining our free will (debatable, but I won't go into that). Ditto for the Holocaust - that does not sound like the act of an all-loving God, and seriously contradicts itself.

 

Doomgiver: I see the Bible as a description of ethics rather than an explanation to life the universe and everything (to nick a book title).

[Doomie]

Then how come the Almighty One can't make something too heavy for him to lift? Answer: It's impossible. But he's all powerful, so he can do everything, even that, but also he can't... it's driving me nuts when i start to think about it.

 

I also had my questions about he all loving part. I say my religion is the best - starwars! It's easy:

 

1: You shall not turn to the dark side.

2: You shall learn the code of the sith.

3: You will make offers to GL in the form of money for starwars episode three.

4: Otherwise you will go to trekkieland!

5: You shall always try to turn the nonbelievers.

6: There can be only two. No that's a silly rule. Well, then i'm done! And christians need an entire bible for that. I need three movies and five sentences.

[Gabez]

Heh, yeah Star Wars is great.

 

To get back on topic: Either China or Europe. Or both.

 

Edit: Russia's another possibility for the next 100 years.

 

Just noticed this: "The Bible is being proven to be true every day." - er, no. Bible prophecies are hardly an exact science. And it's called the Euro, not the "Europe Dollar". The Euro. EURO.

 

Also I just thought of a problem with the concept of heaven. If everyone there is good, and there's no evil, then there's no distinction between the two, and thus there's no free will. If I throw someone out of the window in Heaven it won't hurt them - if I make them a cup of tea it will have the same effect. Therefore everything becomes meaningless, and thus our choices become meaningless, so there is in effect no free will, because our choices won't mean anything. It's like a man who decides not to go out of a room, not knowing that the door is locked. He has made the choice, but it is an illusion - as a matter of fact he has no free will.

[Doomie]

Howzabout the EU?

 

EDIT: That topic dissapeared since, what, the second post?

[Gabez]

Hee, yeah, but I thought it was an interesting topic, so I wanted to bring it back. And when I said "Europe" I meant the EU.

[Doomie]

Oh. I missed that part.

 

About the heaven: You're friggin right! Mayeb it's about the philosify (I know that's spelled wrong) of 'good guys stay good guys' but it must be very boring there and it's only a matter of time before evryone there goes postal and gets banned to hell, wich is a bit sucky, since that could've also happened without years of boredom. Heck i can't even stand one day of boredom! And the onlyother option is mind control, wich is also kinda sucky.

[Ray Jones]

i wouldnt mind if they called it euro dollar. i mean they also call it euro cents..

 

but thats just a name anyways..

 

 

and i think the reason why the eu was formed is mainly economic. to say it is a sign of the evil is plain .. err.. sad, y'know?

[yaebginn]

wow, I'm gone for a few hours and look how much has been posted since. whew. ok. doomgiver, in order to get to heaven, you must admit that you are a sinner, believe that jesus is God's sona nd died on the cross so that you can go to heaven, and confess your faith. that means tell someone that you are a christian. ok, Hell is eternal seperation from God, buts thats only part of it. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Great Pain. and pain is also phycological, is a girlfriend dumps you atfer a year, you feel pain, but I have no idea, nor do I want to know, the kind of pain there will be in hell. and no, heaven isnt going to be boring, because there is free will, there is just no sin. you cant do anything wrong nor have any desire to. I cant even imagine it, its beyond my capabilities. And heaven is immense, it goes on forever, not just time-wise, but it just is so BIG. I mean, it fits every believer from all eternity in there. It's gonna be huge. And a few have tried to make a star wars religion, but it cant be, because its not true. George is the creator of it and he himself has said its not real and he doesnt like it when the people try to make on because its just a movie (and books and such) And there's too much to go back and read right now, but re-post your questions in shorter posts, and I'll try to answerr them.

[Gabez]

You obviously didn't read anything I posted, yaebginn, and I'm certainly not going to "re-post my questions in shorter posts" for your convinience.

 

What you are saying is philisophically meanignless (see the anology of the garden in the jungle I used). People make logical points and you just go "Ah, but God is good" and stuff like that. You can't make that move. If you respond with a statement you picked up from the Bible, then it is meaningless, because you have no expereience of what it actually means. You've just remembered it from Sunday School. Furthermore, you say WHAT the God of classical theism is like, but you don't say WHY or HOW. THerefore your post is meaningless - I might as well just say "Bob is good". It doesn't mean anything. You may think it does, but it doesn't.