Admiral Vostok Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Now that has got to be one of the most stupid things EU has ever claimed. As if any organisation would use the same acronym for two different things. Man I'd like to beat those EU guys with an intelligence stick. I can just see the design meeting now: "Hey fellow EU guy, what should I call this new aircraft that is the best in the galaxy, especially compared to the other mediocre aircraft of the Empire?" "Well it has Triple Ion Engines, so let's give it the acronym TIE." "Well we've already got TIE as an acronym for Twin Ion Engines, but you're right, we can just throw the whole purpose of the acronym system to the wind." "High five!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Can we stop this discussion? It's utterly pointless. You're all talking as if these were all actual facts when they're nothing but fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 You're right Luke's Dad... I'd be happy to continue this debate in the EU thread, Viceroy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nairb Notneb Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Can you guys stay on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majin Boba Fett Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 You're fairly new, so I'll explain it to you. It is not remotely possible for a thread to stay on topic. For as long as I've been here, I've never seen a thread that didn't stray off-topic. Some very good ideas come from these off-topic discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 Also this off topic bit is actually on topic without being on topic. because i suggested that Darth vader as a commanding officer in SWGB2 get access to the TIE defender and these the unenlightened masses dispute what is a forgone conclusion in some vain attempt to convince me yet again that EU and STar wars are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Yet Viecroy is still unable to prove this "foregone conclusion", and seems to have missed my ridicule of his Triple Ion Engines theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 I said TIE in refernce to the Defender it's like certain words you could call someone a retard and it would be an insult and you could call someone else a retard and it could be stark fact. I beleive there are some acronyms that have the same letters but different words and meanings. As always i have proved my point but certain individuals never accept fact. what will rear it's head next i wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 You will never find the same acronym in use in the same context meaning two completely different things. Never. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majin Boba Fett Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 We must lol with lol, lol. Translated: We must Love our Lord with Lots of Love, Laugh out Loud. Man that was lame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 I like EU it keeps LA games from going out of business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 Despire that Display Of Mental agility he's got a point the pair of them. BTW vostok i was just on MSN and a mate of mine on Imperial Assault called Chiss_Alert asked me why you denounced that mod, and yes he is the guy who helped inspire half the unit ideas i came up with for the chiss yonks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Well this is going off-topic, but the thread was already off topic anyway... I don't remember anyone called Chiss_Alert when I was working on the mod, but I denounced it because there were just way too many things wrong with it, and while the Mod Leader agreed with me, his two second-in-commands didn't so he was ultimately powerless to avert disaster. He was a good guy too, I feel sorry for him after all the work he's put in... I'll list below just some of the problems. Feel free to forward it to your friend, though I fear it is way too late now. 1. The Generals Engine is a dream for modders; it's so easy to change every single aspect of the game. Yet despite the capability to change things, the team seemed intent on just making what is essentially a skin for Generals. The gameplay would be exactly the same, all the way down to where discussions would be along the lines of "who should get something like the USA Strategy Center?" 2. Another great part of the Generals Engine is the Zero-Hour-style Generals sub-factions. I saw enormous potential here: the basic "vanilla" faction could operate exactly like the movies, making a faithful recreation possible, while each General would add EU units, making the EUFans happy. But this wasn't enough for some people. EU units ran amok, so that not only was the play styles of the faction hugely different from the movies, but there were also far too many units. 3. The designers of Imperial Assault must have had very little experience with decent RTS games, and failed to understand that Gameplay > Realism. Whereas in most RTS games, units would have at most two different types of attacks, Imperial Assault had units with four or even more different types of attacks. This was because the designers tried to make the units as much like the source material as possible. If they had have just followed the movies, things would be okay, but they had to incorporate all sorts of EU so that something stupid like the E-Wing would have two different types of laser and three different types of missiles. This makes gameplay not only harder to balance, but the fact is why buy a range of units when this one uber-unit does everything? 4. As a direct result of the previous two points, too many units and too many modes of attack led to hideous doubling up of units, rendering some units completely obsolete and pointless. What was even worse was when these obsolete units were in fact movie units: why would anyone buy a TIE Fighter when any one of the host of EU TIEs do the job far better for only a little extra cost? 5. In the end though, all of the problems listed above and coutless more are a direct result of the fact that mods are for the most part just made by fanboys, whose inability to realise what makes a fun game is matched only by their tunnel vision and inability to admit when they're wrong. While most of my arguments on the discussion forums were agreed with by the majority of posters, those in charge would come back with "too bad it's designed already we're not going to change it". The saddest part about Imperial Assault is that it had real potential, but now it's just craptacular like most of the other total conversion mods out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Painless Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Lmao, his 2 second in commands screwed this over? Its too bad you left vostok. Your knowledge was great. Too bad you think that one EU thing in a mod screws it all over. The reason we added EU stuff is because the things that were in the movies just werent enough. Edit: All units on IA only have a maximum of 2 weapons. People post up ideas for like 3 or more but we limit them at 2. I suggest that everyone at least come and check us out at www.planetcnc.com/imperialassault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edan Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Hi, my name is Edan, leader of Impeiral Assault. Vostok, if I remember correctly, the conflicts we had dealt with EU vs. staying with the films. There wasn't anything going on with "people under me making decisions for me"-- you guys just had discussions on the forums. What happens to the actual mod is up to me, and I don't remember ever making those types of decisions between your ideas and others made by those underneath me. In addition, I suggest you don't judge our mod until you play it. When beta comes, I'd be more than happy for you to be a beta tester and give your feedback because I really do think your point-of-view and knowledge about Star Wars will be very helpful to this mod. We want to make this the mod that you guys (the Star Wars community) want, and we want you guys to help us make it that way! Help us out, tell us what you want changed, and we'll respond in the best manner possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Hey Edan, didn't expect you to pop up here. I really do admire what you're trying to do, and I'm glad you value my opinion, but too many others high up in the ranks of IA don't. As you may remember, after a discussion I had with you, you posted a rather important thread on the forums requesting a bit of a step-back and look at where the mod was going. I applauded the move, and outlined how I saw the design of the mod could be changed slightly so that not only would gameplay be improved because there wasn't so much doubling up and over-complication of unit abilities, but that we could also use the Zero Hour Generals system as a way to include the more far-out EU concepts without ruining the imagery from the movies. Many people instantly dismissed my ideas as EU-bashing, and while I won't deny I am usually an EU basher, in this particular case I was not. I was thinking of a way to include all the EU people wanted, but relegating it to one of the three different Generals, while the "vanilla" faction would play just like the movies. Again, I should stress that the vanilla factions would still include EU units, just not those units which contradicted the play style and imagery of the faction in question. For example, the Empire was the faction I had the most problems with because units like Shadowtroopers, Dark Troopers, Juggernauts and TIE Defenders were all being included in the vanilla faction. Their inclusion would force the Empire to be played in a totally different style to the movies, but I proposed they could still be included in the game without contradicting the movies by making them only available to certain Generals. Of course the only problem I can see with this is that we weren't planning to implement the different Generals right away, so I guess the biggest concern of EUFans would be that they wouldn't get to use Shadowtroopers straight away. I'll gladly be a beta tester, I'd love to in fact, but if my opinion didn't count for much back them I'm sure it will count for even less now. Just one more comment on the last part of your post: We want to make this the mod that you guys (the Star Wars community) want, and we want you guys to help us make it that way!I'd like to believe that, and I truly believe that's what you want, Edan, but my experience was different. Relating back to point number 1 in my list above, there was an incident on the forums where someone was trying to work out a way to fit in some element from the C&C games. I can't remember exactly, but it possibly related to a desire to include Engineers like the ones from the classic C&C games. I was against it, because the Engineers as they existed don't really fit in with Star Wars at all. I also commented that there was probably a good reason for why Engineers were left out of the latest C&C game. The responses I got back horrified me: nearly everyone that responded said they didn't care about Star Wars, they were making the mod for C&C fans! Obviously, this isn't the way you think, Edan, but the fact that a fair amount of people - possibly even a majority - think this way is not comforting. EDIT: In response to Mr Painless' post, I resent you saying that I believe the inclusion of an EU unit will ruin it. That is not what I am saying, and is certainly far from what I was suggesting during my time with IA. I see now in hindsight that this was my biggest problem; since I was a Purist, EUFans instantly disregarded what I had to say as being Anti-EU. That was not the case at all. The way I was suggesting things would have catered to EU Fans and Purists alike. And before anyone suggests EU would be minimised, keep in mind three Generals for each faction would use a host of EU units, so that's three times more EU factions than Purist factions! It just would have been nice if people could have looked past my opinions of EU and looked at what I was actually suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Painless Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Well those were the days where people were actually really trying to get power. Jugg and everyone were. But Edan has made it clear that no one has power besides him. And to tell you the truth I think we may have taken the juggernaut(the unit) out, or at least made it general specific. We have recently just resolved a moderator issue about people saying posting their ideas and the mods just disregarding them. Everyone's opinion is highly valued at IA. Vostok I would love to see you come back and post your ideas on the forums. And if any moderator/higher up was to give you ****, you could just report them to me. But again I encourage everyone to come and at least check us out at www.planetcnc.com/imperialassault. BTW, I may have been a little out of line in my last post. I hope you can accept my apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Thanks Painless, apology accepted. It's funny you should mention Jugg as he was probably my biggest opponent. Perhaps things have changed there, in which case I apologise for all the criticisms. Just rest assured I haven't been spreading a campaign of negative comments about IA... my comments have been confined to this under-populated forum I may just drop by to check out how things are going. If you two welcome my involvement, I'd be happy to help. Though all I can really offer is my opinions and suggestions, I don't think I can spend much time coding. I can do some more voice work too I just want to say again I support what you guys are doing and truly do admire the talent of the team as a whole. I'd hate to see all the effort go to waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edan Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by Admiral Vostok Hey Edan, didn't expect you to pop up here. Haha Vostok, you should expect me to pop up anywhere I think we were in a confused time back then... because things seem a bit straightened out now. In that "Shadowtroopers, Dark Troopers, Juggernauts and TIE Defenders " that you said were being included--- that's changed. We decided to go back to Sith and stay away from shadowtroopers. Dark Troopers are general-specific (droid general). I haven't announced it officially, but the Juggernaut might get cut... or just used in missions only or something like that. It's purpose is useless at this point. And TIE defenders are also general-specific (Airforce general). People underneath me that you say "had power" were cramming many units into the mod design, but when I took the design and actually told people what to do and what to create (I'm the only one who can do that, thus I'm the only one with REAL power), my focus went to the most important units, and through that those extra units seemed to be cut. When you decided to leave the team I was quite confused-- I thought you were just having problems with team members and when you said this mod was going in the wrong direction, there wasn't much I could do to prove to you that things wouldn't end up crappy-- I had already tried. Just remember that I'm the one with the power in this mod, and eventually all the team members of the mod and I will come to mutual decisions that will be best for the mod. I don't stay on top of all the tiny arguments that go on inside our forums, and those discussions that happen are never permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Well it really sounds like things have changed. In my opinion there couldn't be a better person in charge, Edan. It sounds like much of what I suggested has ended up coming to pass! I guess the reason I left was due to frustration with some of the other team members; they were so adamant in what they were doing although it was contrary to what you were wanting. But another part of why I left was not to do with the mod at all, I just wasn't sure I could spend a lot of time helping out. I'll do what I can now, but certainly I wasn't prepared and am still not prepared to take on too much responsability with the coding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Having seen SW:IA a while ago, i must say i was very dissapointed about the game. One glaring example of why the whole project would fall flat is when someone related to the project said that the B-wing wasn't in the game as it wasn't needed, and yet the E-wing and K-wing were included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 I'm honoured that they chose this topic to appear in, now if only they could cajole Chiss_alert into bringing back my Thrawn trilogy books i'd be happy. Anyway i think we should support IA because it'll give us ideas about what could be done for SWGB2 we could play it and see what sort of things are doable and how units can be effectiveley put in, I personally am a fan of generals mods namely becxause the origianl was so crap. Good luck to The Imperial Assault Team, The Blitzkrieg 2 Team and last but not least The C&C Europe Team. I can only hope that they all create good mods to salvage what is and will always be remembered as a crap game with it's only saving grace as the Mods made for it. and Windu the B-wing was mainly for attacks against capitol ships and I don't see any capitol ships in IA so i think it would be a bit redundant, however with the spacemode we're trying to get ideas for for SWGB2 the B-Wing will have a Niche that shall allow it to be put in and used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I think the reasoning that "the B-Wing is only for use against capital ships" is stupid. Again this is an EU invention that doesn't make much sense in respect to the movies. In Return of the Jedi a number of B-Wings are sent to the Battle of Endor. The Rebellion was expecting the second Death Star to be mostly undefended, it's only defense coming from the shield generator on the Forest Moon. The weren't expecting to run into the majority of the Imperial Fleet. So if they weren't expecting to come up against any capital ships, why bring a fighter that is only good against capital ships? It just doesn't make sense. Sure, it makes sense for the B-Wing to be an anti-capital fighter, but it must be able to fulfill other tasks too, or else they wouldn't have used them at Endor. So the B-Wing should definitely be included over the E-Wing and K-Wing, whatever they are. However having said that, I seem to remember even when I was working on IA at the height of it's mess, the B-Wing was included, albeit restricted to a General, while the E-Wing and K-Wing were also General-specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Painless Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I agree with you there vostok. I can let Edan know about it. And if you are wanting to stop in some time soon, I will clear the way and take away anyof the flak you may get. But not to worry, as if they give anyone crap they shall deal with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by Admiral Vostok So the B-Wing should definitely be included over the E-Wing and K-Wing, whatever they are. The E-Wing is the ship that replaced the X-Wing. http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/ewing/eu.html The K-Wing is the Y-wing's replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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