Nairb Notneb Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Astro great job on the Greedo card its hilarious! I still have all three versions of the OT's. I have the first two on VHS and now the DVD's. I am very pleased with the "cleaning up" of the effects. YAY! But, Is GL going to change all of his movies whenever he releases them to DVD? When TPM came out on DVD he added scenes and when he released AOTC the DVD version and the VHS version were different. Of course if you went to the theater that was digital and a theater that was analog those were different too. I think what is going on here is that this guy is a marketing genius and he just makes movies for the fun of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 I think what is going on here is that this guy is a marketing genius and he just makes movies for the fun of it.Hmm... Not to be a stickler, but aren't the two mutually exclusive? He's either a marketing genius in which case money is a significant factor in his reasoning, or he just makes movies for fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Oh crap, I was watching RotJ at work (it was playing at the customer service desk) and OMFG, I was hoping that saber clash pic was just because it was a still, but NOOOOOOO, its like that in real-time. And that Anakin BS made me cuss infront of all of my co-workers. *I don't like cussing alot around people I'm not really friends with. Damn me and my having manners* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Originally posted by Spider AL Hmm... Not to be a stickler, but aren't the two mutually exclusive? He's either a marketing genius in which case money is a significant factor in his reasoning, or he just makes movies for fun... I see it more as there's Uncle George and "Darth Lucas." He makes the movies for fun, then he'll sneak away and put on this dark cape and hood and start talking in this freaky old-man cackle about marketing plans. ; ) Notice, Uncle George and Darth Lucas are never actually seen together.... hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Yes indeed. I'd be very wary of sitting on uncle George's knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 I'm torn now. I can't decide whether to keep them or send them back. For every pro there is a con, for every fix they have made there is a mistake, for every nice video remastering there is a messed up sountrack. If they replace the ANH disc with one with a fixed soundtrack then i'll definately keep them, otherwise i might return them on the assumption i will probably be able to buy a second hand version cheap in a few months anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Originally posted by narfblat Complaints:I just wish GL would have spent some time to remove the boxes around the TIE fighters. I don't have that problem. I went through that THX optimizer thing to set all the brightness, tint, and so on. The TIEs and other ships look fine to me with no matte lines. Presumably my settings are dark enough to hid them. Originally posted by narfblat I don't mind the changes much, I just wish GL made changes where it was a little more important. I read recently that they only had something like a month to make the changes. If so, there certainly would be a lot of priority calls to make. Originally posted by Spider AL Hmm... Not to be a stickler, but aren't the two mutually exclusive? He's either a marketing genius in which case money is a significant factor in his reasoning, or he just makes movies for fun... I don't think so. He obviously is a control freak that cares very much about Star Wars, and from interviews I don't get the impression that it is solely for the money. But since he funds the series himself, making money allows him the opportunity to make more of the movies he wants to make. He even commented on the irony of this in the documentary. Perhaps the new films suffer from him having complete control and the final say, but at the same time I've seen many movies that have suffered from studio intervention. Based on that, personally I'd rather he have have complete control than the studios. I like the DVDs a lot, but I'd also like the originals as well. But it is a pipe dream, I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_One Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Oh, it's been so long since I was painfully rude and sarcastic, you'd all forgotten not to take me seriously... I'm just fed up with people moaning and complaining about these Star Wars DVDs. We can go round and round all day, and whatever your feelings, ultimately they will not be listened to by those that makes these sorts of decisions. I think everyone has made every point that can be made a thousand times over, in every forum (Star Wars or not) under the sun. Basically, you're all going to just have to live with the fact that as long as George Lucas has a say in it, you won't get the "original original trilogy." But just remember, that he gave you these films we love so much in the first place, so any claims that "you know better" or he's a "mad old fool" are fairly pointless, since without him there would be no Star Wars at all - butchered, or otherwise. Sorry if I offended anyone with my previous comments, but it's fairly satisfying pretending to be a troll once in a while; and those around here that know me will note that it's an art I rarely dabble in, except for my own personal enlightenment. And I'm glad someone picked up on the Spinal Tap quote. I'll leave you with one last comment: NI!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 you people do realize that the movie sounds and dialogue are supposed to be heard OVER the soundtrack right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Prime: since he funds the series himself, making money allows him the opportunity to make more of the movies he wants to make.I think you'll find that he makes a little bit more of a profit than that. Perhaps the new films suffer from him having complete control and the final say, but at the same time I've seen many movies that have suffered from studio intervention. Based on that, personally I'd rather he have have complete control than the studios.I don't think the producer (Lucas) or "the studios"... which usually means the money men, also Lucas in this case... should have the right to irrevocably change a classic film in the manner that Lucas has done. It simply shouldn't be allowed. Movie heritage is important. The_One: it's fairly satisfying pretending to be a troll once in a whileNyeheheh. "EYE WUZ PURTENDING!!!11" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Originally posted by Spider AL Prime: I think you'll find that he makes a little bit more of a profit than that. No doubt. But he (and his companies) make something and people can decide if they want it or not. Considering how much the frachise makes, a lot of people want what they produce. If he makes money from it, I personally don't have a problem with that. Originally posted by Spider AL I don't think the producer (Lucas) or "the studios"... which usually means the money men, also Lucas in this case... should have the right to irrevocably change a classic film in the manner that Lucas has done. It simply shouldn't be allowed. Movie heritage is important. I agree movie heritage is important, and it would be nice to have the originals. But I don't know who is in a position to prevent him from doing what he wants. He did negotiate for/obtain complete control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 I agree movie heritage is important, and it would be nice to have the originals. But I don't know who is in a position to prevent him from doing what he wants. He did negotiate for/obtain complete control.Well here lies the rub, don't it. What Lucas is doing isn't illegal, otherwise he WOULD be stopped. What he's doing is immoral. And just because someone's doing something within the law, doesn't mean people shouldn't protest, otherwise unjust laws would never change. Film is art, art should be protected and archived. I for one don't sit around dissing Lucas in the hope of getting anything out of him or making his grinch's heart grow seven sizes... I sit around dissing him because what he's doing is wrong, and ANYTHING I can do to add to the opposition, is time well spent. It's worthwhile. That's why it's utterly futile for people like The_One to flame those opposed to Lucas' actions... Of all the people in this debate, Lucas apologists are the only ones wasting their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 as far as i am aware they removed the boxes from the tie fighters, though they did seem to forget ONE which flashed past the screen very quickly. ------------- GL himself has said that the original films were only about 40% what he intended, and as he has gotten more control they have gotten worse, so the simple facts seem to be that he got lucky with the first ones, as the compromises he was forced to make actually IMPROVED his original visions.... unfortunately he doesn't seem to grasp this, and seems to have no regard for the feeling of the fans about the filnms they have come to love. He is only obsessed with HIS vision of what the films SHOULD have been, not the films as they actually were (and actually were liked). Many artists aren't actually fond of their most popular work, as they often don't understand what it was in the work that connected with people, and can't reproduce it. Luckilly for most people, most artists are sensible to leave things well enough alone, not continually attempt to "fix" percieved problems that aren't there. Otherwise many of the classics we have today wouldn't be with us, as the artists would have "fixed" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nairb Notneb Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 I'm starting to agree with everyone about the complaining. I'm getting tired of doing it. As much as I hate the little "story" changes, when I watch the movies I'll be watching the DVD's because they will be giving me the best picture and sound, plus that's where my surround sound and large screen TV are, the DVD player, no VHS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 what story changes? none of the story was changed, only visuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Originally posted by Spider AL .... What he's doing is immoral. ..... Of all the people in this debate, Lucas apologists are the only ones wasting their time. Spidey, you must have a very distorted moral compass if you think a film-maker tinkering with his movies is immoral.... I hope ppl dont start that 'raping my childhood' analogy Im myself am not apologising for Lucas. I support him in his creative right to do with his work as he sees fit, WHETHER WE AGREE WITH IT OR NOT I am curious AL, are you one of those ppl that may go to see Ep3 with such a cynical outlook that you will inevitably end up complaining about it ; coz if so, maybe you and Kain can hook up, and share a big box o popcorn I personally am really looking forward to it, and seeing Vader Chewie, Obi, Yoda, on the screen once again will alone be worth the price of admission for me as for that saber thing, I cant believe ppl have alot of trouble dealing with things in a movie that last for about 1-2 seconds... mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Well, our opinion is that Lucas is being stubborn by not allowing the originals to be released on a usable format that will last (ie: DVD), effectively destroying the works of art that made him a wealthy man and which enabled him to create the "true visions" that he so values today. The changes he's made are distracting to us old school fans, and frankly we see them as unnecessary. At least release the originals on the same disc and we can watch them if we want to. It's really no extra work for him since he went through all the restoration process. That's about as simply as I can sum it up. It just seems somewhat ungrateful and spiteful of him to do that to his fans. That's why we're upset. Then we get a barrage of holier-than-thou flames about how we're spoiled and naughty to not allow Lucas his vision. They go on and on about how they hate the originals and they don't exist, and they would never buy them, etc. But these folks want us not to have the option to buy the originals, so it's not exactly a fair trade. In the end it's not the Lucas apologists who are preventing us from getting the originals (though Lucas may choose to listen to them and ignore the countless other fans), it's Lucas himself. Hopefully he'll see reason and change his mind (like he has so often in the past) in favor of letting the originals be released on DVD or HD-DVD/Blu-Ray if he insists that these are the final "ultimate" editions (I won't hold my breath though!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Originally posted by Kurgan The changes he's made are distracting to us old school fans, and frankly we see them as unnecessary. so those of us that accept them are no longer allowed to call ourselves oldschool fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckcsaber Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Originally posted by InsaneSith so those of us that accept them are no longer allowed to call ourselves oldschool fans? No. You'll call yourselves WHATEVER THE HELL WE WANT! Penalties WILL be created AND ENFORCED if you do not comply to the terms. If you agree with GL's changes and further continue to call yourself an old-school fan, you will face the consequences. And remember, us old skooler's like to punish the GL faithful with shoddy vibro-whips and cardboard lightsabers, SO WATCH OUT BIATCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 I like star wars for the story, I don't care about visuals. point is, if you don't like the changes don't buy the dvd, but stop criticizing us that chose to accept the changes and enjoy the dvd. Just rip some LD's clean them up yourself and burn to a dvd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Originally posted by InsaneSith I like star wars for the story, I don't care about visuals. point is, if you don't like the changes don't buy the dvd, but stop criticizing us that chose to accept the changes and enjoy the dvd. Just rip some LD's clean them up yourself and burn to a dvd. The problem is, I personally don't care what you do with your money, and I'm not intent on criticizing anyone who bought it. I have already decided not to buy the DVD's, and I simply am unable to figure out why GL will not release a cleaned up version of the originals, with no scenes or characters changed. It doesn't hurt him, and it makes me (and quite a lot of other people) happy. And I don't steal, even if I feel that the author is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Fisher Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Wow. You guys know how to discuss something into the dirt O,o I believe that almost everyone simply wants the originals (non-edited to Lucas' "original vision") on DVD. That seems to be the core of this whole business don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Spidey, you must have a very distorted moral compass if you think a film-maker tinkering with his movies is immoral.... I hope ppl dont start that 'raping my childhood' analogy Don't get emotional. Movies are pieces of art. Make a different version, fine. But don't delete the original, as that is the DESTRUCTION of art and therefore is immoral. That's what Lucas is doing, QED. There's no argument you can offer to counter this one point... that while people may have the LEGAL right to do a thing, that doesn't make it moral. as for that saber thing, I cant believe ppl have alot of trouble dealing with things in a movie that last for about 1-2 seconds...All those little seconds make up a movie. Besides, I thought the point of all this remastering was to improve visuals, not ruin them... I am curious AL, are you one of those ppl that may go to see Ep3 with such a cynical outlook that you will inevitably end up complaining about it ; coz if so, maybe you and Kain can hook up, and share a big box o popcornI don't think that would be a good idea. I don't like what little I've seen of Kain online. As for Ep3, I hope FERVENTLY that it's the best movie I've ever seen, and true to Star Wars canon. I highly doubt it will be though. Why? Because both the prequels are excremental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Originally posted by Samuel Dravis And I don't steal, even if I feel that the author is wrong. how is ripping LD's stealing? if you own the laserdiscs all you're doing is making a copy of them on dvd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Originally posted by InsaneSith how is ripping LD's stealing? if you own the laserdiscs all you're doing is making a copy of them on dvd... I don't own any copies of the OT. I've been waiting for them to come out on DVD before I use my money on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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