Your Star Wars DVD Reviews!

[Lynk Former]

He's already explained it. Look at the bonus material and the commentary tracks.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Prime

I was thinking that at Vaders end, even though he has been redeemed from the Dark Side, he is still more machine than man. This implies that he has still lost some or most of his humanity, even if he is no longer evil. So if he is to appear at the end in "Shaw ghost form," that is really a form that is still less than the true Anakin. Only in the "Hayden form" is he really his true self, with his full humanity. So if that logic holds, it may make more sense in the end.

 

Well the thing is, we don't really know when Anakin became Vader (ie: he needed the suit). Of course it is implied that it happened when Vader was "young" but this could be anything. If we go by that he was in his 20's like Luke, then he was a Sith Lord for 50 years! However if we go by Anakin's age in the prequels, then he was a Sith for only 20 years (being in his 40's at his death). "Healed" as he was in ghost form, he is actually appearing, possibly as he never did in life. When he was an old man in life he was a cyborg with horrible scars and the need for a breathing apparatus. Why would his injuries carry over into the afterlife?

 

Likewise, Yoda died when he was sick and weak. Is the ghost also sick and weak? Obi-Wan was cut in half when he died (well, at least in the early production.. now he just kind of instantly fades when the saber touches him), is the ghost stitched back together with a big saber scar across his chest?

 

Then again, all three of them are wearing "Jedi monk" robes as ghosts. Vader died in his armor, which was then torched by Luke. Obi-Wan disappeared (along with his clothes, just not his outer Jedi robe), as did Yoda.

 

All I'm saying is that in the "Force Afterlife" they need not appear as they did in life. But the precedent is set for Yoda and Obi-Wan to basically appear more or less how they were at the end of their lives. But Anakin somehow gets to appear as he did 20+ years ago. And if you chart Vader's downfall to his genocide of the Tusken families, that was before he had his long haired look, so why doesn't he appear that way (as a 19 year old Padawan)?

 

I'm not saying that is all correct, and hopefully all will be explained in Ep 3. It was just Lucas' comment that made me think.

 

I'm hoping for a good explanation. If not, Lucas's last chance is to explain it on the ROTS DVD commentary. I just hope he doesn't screw it up and then leave it to some EU writer to figure it out. ; p

 

Has anyone listened to the commentary yet? I wonder if it is explained on there... [/b]

 

I've listened to ANH & ESB commentaries and I'm about halfway through the ROTJ one. So far NONE of the modified scenes have really been commented on except for the ANH Jabba scene. They just talk about other stuff when a new scene comes up the vast majority of the time.

 

I'm also only half-way through Empire of Dreams, but it almost seems like they purposely left out any material that would discuss how they changed the movies or show the originals (though you get glimpses of stuff that's been changed in the trailors). They also left out all the Special Edition trailers except for the ANH one. I wonder why?

 

It may be because they needed room for the Episode III & video game fluff, and if so, that's unfortunate.

 

I would much rather if they had made that non-OT stuff as "special bonus disk" or something with a givaway like they did with the Star Trek TOS DVD sets. I mean, only since it was non-OT related. Then use the extra space to round out the OT bonus materials on disc 4.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Lynk Former

He's already explained it. Look at the bonus material and the commentary tracks.

 

You mean he explains why we see Hayden instead of Shaw? Where specifically? There's hours of bonus material... or do you mean the end of the ROTJ commentary? Because I have another hour of that to go (halfway through).

 

All I heard from people was "he says it will be explained in Episode III" not that he gives an actual explanation.

 

Well, it would help to point out exactly where it's at to save time...

[Lynk Former]

Well I can't remember which movie commentary it was, it was Empire or Jedi... anywayz, Lucas was talking about how when a Jedi dies they're able to retain their bodies and what they looked like and they're able to choose themselves how they looked. Now it makes sense if Anakin wanted to look they way he was when he wasn't Darth Vader and rather when he was Anakin Skywalker.

 

And also he mentioned that while Anakin did have a death and rebirth from Darth Vader to Anakin Skywalker at the end, he was still more machine than man and he still didn't have his humanity intact. The last time he did he was Anakin Skywalker, the way you see him in Episode II.

 

The point is, Lucas wanted to point out the fact that he wanted to show the TRUE Anakin Skywalker.

 

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that he wants to really put the point across that Anakin really did die when he turned to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Lynk Former

Well I can't remember which movie commentary it was, it was Empire or Jedi... anywayz, Lucas was talking about how when a Jedi dies they're able to retain their bodies and what they looked like and they're able to choose themselves how they looked. Now it makes sense if Anakin wanted to look they way he was when he wasn't Darth Vader and rather when he was Anakin Skywalker.

 

Ah, I just got though the ROTJ commentary, and I can say that this isn't covered (unless I fell asleep for some sentence or other). At the end of Jedi (during the "celebration" scenes on Endor/etc. Lucas is talking about them "joining the Force at will" but he doesn't say anything about them "choosing their appearance."

 

Yes, the Jedi spirit represents their "true self" but nothing about an option to appear a young handsome dude, etc. (I guess Yoda and Ben wanted to look old?)

 

He also forgets to mention Qui Gon Jinn (who has a voice in AOTC), and only mentions "they knew how to do it" (Yoda and Obi-Wan).

 

I'd argue that Vader became Anakin Skywalker again when he tossed the Emperor into the pit. That's why it's so sad. Luke gets his father back and then he dies.

 

And also he mentioned that while Anakin did have a death and rebirth from Darth Vader to Anakin Skywalker at the end, he was still more machine than man and he still didn't have his humanity intact. The last time he did he was Anakin Skywalker, the way you see him in Episode II.

 

I don't recall hearing that. He only said that Vader was "losing his humanity" becoming more machine than man. Of course you could take this metaphorically and literally. Obviously his body was literally being replaced by more machinery over the years. But his lack of humanity was due more to the Dark Side of the Force. Obviously he was a VERY passionate man, but he lacked the positive emotions (until the end when he regained himself thanks to Luke). Human beings after all can feel anger, hatred, fear, etc.

 

The point is, Lucas wanted to point out the fact that he wanted to show the TRUE Anakin Skywalker.

 

Right, which is what he was doing before, just that he was shown 50 years older than he is now (and still 20 years younger than he SHOULD be chronologically). Lucas really doesn't explain it (why 20 year old Hayden instead of 70 year old Shaw) in the ROTJ commentary, again, unless I missed it.

 

Maybe it's covered in the last hour of Empire of Dreams (the only real OT extra I haven't finished viewing yet).

 

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that he wants to really put the point across that Anakin really did die when he turned to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader.

 

Perhaps, but this isn't covered in the commentary.

 

I even watched the Episode III preview (thankfully it wasn't much of a spoiler because I'd already seen most of the clips of the "pre-production fight" with the actors on set in other clips, tv spots, etc. But they don't say "oh, and Anakin really died, that's why he's in the OT."

 

No real explanation on the DVD's themselves for the Hayden/Shaw swap (again, unless it's something I missed on the Empire of Dreams doc or something).

[Kurgan]

On the 2004 DVD set, on the 4th disc "Bonus Material" in the menu there is a weird "box" to the right of R2-D2 that lights up yellow when high-lighted by your mouse cursor.

 

Yet, when I click it, it turns green and the menu simply "reloads" (refreshes).

 

Is this some hidden extra I'm just not accessing correctly, or is it some unfinished thing that was meant to be added but wasn't?

 

It just puzzles me that there's a menu option like that which seems to go nowhere.

 

Any thoughts?

 

PS: I'm accessing this on PowerDVD on my computer...

[Codja X]

Here we go:

 

Hidden Blooper Reel (Another Method):

Another way to get to the blooper reel is to go ot the Video Game and Still Gallery Menu, then press 11. After a pause, the box next to R2-D2 lights up. Then press 3. After another pause, press 8 to then reveal th hidden blooper reel clip!

 

This is from:

 

http://movieweb.com/dvd/eggs/egg.php?upc=024543123453

[Jan Gaarni]

Cool, I'll be doing that ... just as soon as I tire of playing BattleFront.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Codja X

Here we go:

 

Hidden Blooper Reel (Another Method):

Another way to get to the blooper reel is to go ot the Video Game and Still Gallery Menu, then press 11. After a pause, the box next to R2-D2 lights up. Then press 3. After another pause, press 8 to then reveal th hidden blooper reel clip!

 

This is from:

 

http://movieweb.com/dvd/eggs/egg.php?upc=024543123453

 

Okay I got it to work. The little box lights up with each press too. So that's what it was all along. I just wasn't pausing long enough between the presses of the numbers. ; )

[Methos007]

I don't know if anyone else sa2 this, but the Sunday before the set was released, the documentry "Empire of Dreams" was on A&E biography channel. I watched the whole thing, and was disapointed that it was the same thing as on the disc. But 10 minutes before I wrote this post, I decided to watch it on my DVD, only to find although it has the same title, it's a completely different documentry (asside from a few clips from interviews).

 

Lucas is talking about them "joining the Force at will" but he doesn't say anything about them "choosing their appearance

 

That's alot like the after-image in the Matrix lol.

 

 

By the way, did anyone else notice how photoshoped Han's head looks when Greedo fires first? When his head moves, there's literaly a white line of pixels that moves with it.

Trippy...

[Kurgan]

I didn't see any white line of pixels on his head, but some people have been reporting odd visual glitches (I wonder if these are due to video drivers or the player they are using?) like white explosions and huge green boxes around ships (instead of the light gray ones that I can see in a few shots).

 

I never saw the Empire of Dreams on tv, but I heard that it was an "abbreviated form" (shorter version) of the one on the DVD. The DVD one was 2 1/2 hours long.

 

PS: If anyone finds ANYTHING in the DVD set that explains Hayden replacing Shaw or even mentions it, let me know and where you found it.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Kurgan

I never saw the Empire of Dreams on tv, but I heard that it was an "abbreviated form" (shorter version) of the one on the DVD. The DVD one was 2 1/2 hours long.

Correct.

 

Originally posted by Kurgan

PS: If anyone finds ANYTHING in the DVD set that explains Hayden replacing Shaw or even mentions it, let me know and where you found it.

I was under the impression that it was explained on the commentary, which I haven't watched yet. But since forums haven't been flooded with the answer, I'm guessing that is not the case.

 

I believe the current theory is that it is because your "ghost form" is supposed to be your true form, which in Anakin's case was when he was young. On the characters DVD extra, Lucas said that Vader has become more machine, and has lost most of his humanity. My theory is that even though he was redeamed, he is still more machine and thus not in his true form or humanity when he dies.

 

Hopefully it will be explained in Ep 3 at least.

[Methos007]

Originally posted by Kurgan

huge green boxes around ships (instead of the light gray ones that I can see in a few shots).

 

I get alot of the green and orange matte outlines on my set. I'm using my DVD enabled XBOX, but I also tested it on my standard JVC dvd player, that a Sony that a friend owns. Same crap on both.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Prime

Correct.

 

I was under the impression that it was explained on the commentary, which I haven't watched yet. But since forums haven't been flooded with the answer, I'm guessing that is not the case.

 

I believe the current theory is that it is because your "ghost form" is supposed to be your true form, which in Anakin's case was when he was young. On the characters DVD extra, Lucas said that Vader has become more machine, and has lost most of his humanity. My theory is that even though he was redeamed, he is still more machine and thus not in his true form or humanity when he dies.

 

Hopefully it will be explained in Ep 3 at least.

 

I wonder. If your theory is true, then I suppose if Luke died, he'd appear as he did pre-robotic hand? ; )

 

If we want to go to the "Dark Path" theory, Anakin was basically already there in Episode II (and if you go by the EU, in the Clone Wars series as well). Though we all have heard rumors and speculated that he "becomes" Darth Vader in Episode III, by the fact that his body is damaged so much that he needs the suit.

 

 

Anyhow, I relistened to the ROTJ commentary during the Vader funeral pyre scene.

 

Lucas says that Anakin is able to retain his identity "when he died."

 

However, Lucas doesn't go on and explain "oh and since I'm now taking Obi-Wan's statements about the 'good man who was your father being destroyed' literally, Anakin died in Episode III as a young man of 21 years of age and from that point on only Vader existed, and that's why I replaced Shaw's ghost with Hayden Christiansen's." Which would have settled it! Oh well.

 

Taking his words one can easily also get the interpretation that we knew all along (only news to someone who hasn't seen the trilogy before), that at least certain Jedi are able to "come back" after they die in spirit form. I notice too he doesn't mention Qui Gon Jinn, who came back after his death. Note that like Obi-Wan, he appears first as only a "voice." We've all heard the story that Liam Neesan was in an accident preventing him from appearing in Episode II as a Jedi Spirit, but that this was originally the plan. Instead he was just a voice speaking to Yoda about Anakin.

 

Well, all I can say is, I agree, Lucas better give us a good explanation for all this in Episode III...

[Lynk Former]

Maybe Lucas wants you to think about it rather than him explaining it all to you.

[Kurgan]

Could be... could be.

 

Or perhaps he hasn't himself decided yet! (hope not)

[Codja X]

Perhaps the ghosts appear as how they see themselves - Since Anakin wouldn't have seen himself in a mirror for the best part of a couple of decades (or perhaps couldn't bear to look at himself), then the projection would be as a young man.

 

Obi and Yoda are used to their old appearance, so that's what their ghosts look like. Why don't they appear young? They probably can't remember what they look like young, having no holiday snaps to remind them:)

 

But is it that big a deal?

 

Just my 2 cents

[Lynk Former]

Anakin was the only one of the three to have such a wierd situation. Obi and Yoda died when they died and they accepted who they were when they died.

[coupes.]

Ghosts obviously don't have a physical body, I guess they simply chose how they want to appear to someone. Obi-Wan Wouldn't want to appear as his young self as Luke wouldn't recognize him. On the other hand, Anakin wouldn't want to apear as he looked like when he was a sith, so he probably chose to look like he did before he went to the dark side.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Lynk Former

Anakin was the only one of the three to have such a wierd situation. Obi and Yoda died when they died and they accepted who they were when they died.

 

IIRC, so did Vader/Anakin.

 

He asks Luke to "help me take this mask off", so that he may "look on you with my own eyes."

 

When Luke says "I've got to save you." he says "You already have, Luke."

 

"Tell your sister, you were right about me... you were right."

 

"Now go, my son, leave me."

 

He even smiles! I'd say that's pretty telling that Anakin accepted who he was, and his fate, and died in peace.

 

 

As far as appeance is concerned, Luke wouldn't recognize him as he appeared (in the new version), that's another reason it seems odd. I suppose if a ghost can choose his appearance he could have made himself look like his friend Jar Jar Binks if he wanted (George, please, that was a joke! Noooooo!!!!)

 

If it was something to do with when he "went over to the Dark Side" that begs the question of when that took place. Was it when he slaughtered the Tusken Raiders? Was it during the events of the second season of the "Clone Wars" animated series? Or was it when he first donned the Vader mask (as we presume is going to happen in Episode III)? To me his slip into the Dark Side is more a progression or a path than he suddenly wakees up one morning and says "EVIL!!!!!" : )

[Lynk Former]

Well it's really a point of view thing.

 

When Vader/Anakin said his last words the meaning is different for me. ("the truths we cling to rely greatly on our own point of view").

 

 

Really it all boils down to how each individual takes this information and molds it in their mind. There's no right or wrong answer unless Lucas finally tells us for sure his reason... so like I said before, maybe Lucas wants us to figure it out rather than him telling us.

[Sivy]

yeah, but that never works... look at matrix 2 & 3. people don't like having to work stuff out for themselves. we're the action film generation. kiss kiss! bang bang!... not "so this is a metaphor laden with eastern philosophy blah blah blah" less thinking! more explosions!

 

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Lynk Former

Well it's really a point of view thing.

 

When Vader/Anakin said his last words the meaning is different for me. ("the truths we cling to rely greatly on our own point of view").

 

 

Really it all boils down to how each individual takes this information and molds it in their mind. There's no right or wrong answer unless Lucas finally tells us for sure his reason... so like I said before, maybe Lucas wants us to figure it out rather than him telling us.

 

Sure, sure, I agree with that. And Lucas may give us an answer that we don't buy, and so we just make up our own thing. That's subjectivity for you. Good art & myth is multivalent anyway.

 

As for me, Anakin is back the moment he goes for Palpatine. He dies on the "Good Side." That instead chooses to be the unstable bratty 20 something from 24 years ago just ruins it.

 

Then again, I haven't seen Episode III, so perhaps it will be done in a convincing way and I'll drop my objection. But for now it just looks odd and the explanations weak.

 

I mean Anakin could have chosen to look like himself as a little child right? Back when he was NOT on the Dark path, he hadn't killed anyone, was full of hope, etc.

 

But there is also the issue of maturity. A mature person accepts their faults and looks past their painful experiences to the knowledge they have gained and moves on. They don't run away from their problems by pretending they're a kid again and nothing bad or complicated ever happend to them. In other words: they take responsibility.

 

Sure, maybe Vader's past is just too painful for him to contemplate throughout the eternity of the afterlife and he had to "let go" of that pain in order to achieve peace (something not possible in his lifetime), but by the time he reaches that state as a 21 year old he's already built up quite a record of painful experiences and mistakes (uncontrolled rage, his acts of mass murder, his marriage to Padme, attacking his master, etc). And again if he's reaching out to and bonding with Luke, why not choose a form that he will recognize?

 

As to "well we're spoiled and we want explanations" I disagree. Lucas felt so strongly about the story that he decided to make a major change like this and didn't really go into the "why." And since he's going out of his way to explain all the backstory with the prequels, we EXPECT him to explain it. So it's not our fault, rather the blame can be cast on Lucas. Had he not made the prequels we'd still be watching Sebastian Shaw at the end of ROTJ. If he then turned around and change him into a 21 year old we'd all be like "huh???" (even more so than now).

 

Okay, I'm just rambling now, without Lucas to explain it, it's up in the air. See you again in about 7 months. ; )

[Vagabond]

You know, Kurgan, I think back when all of us were so excited about Lucas making the prequel trilogy, and there was much rejoicing. Had I known then what I know now, I'd have been much more careful about what I'd been wishing for. With the prequels unmade, I was left to imagine the wondrous place and events that lead to my favorite movies of all time.

 

But then all the flirting about what the genesis of Star Wars might have been was replaced with the tangible - a product of modern-day Lucas's often bewildering sensibility.

 

I often find myself wishing back for the day when the prequels were unmade, before the days of Gungans, midichlorians, Naboo, changing lightsaber colors, changing Anakin ghosts, altered blaster-shot timelines, and obscenely overused CGI. I often pine for the days when starships were made of models, when the looked like actual objects you could touch, rather than video game cutscenes.

 

But I should have known - the signals were all there. Although the space battle from Return of the Jedi was the best I've ever seen, the battle of the Ewoks was an omen of any prequels to come. I should have known - we should have all known. While the Emperor's overconfidence was his weakness, perhaps our faith in Lucas was ours.

 

Had the prequels not been made, then we would not be discussing the rationale for Anakin's ghost, the unmystical and troubling midichlorians; the DVD's would not have been rushed out the door to precede Revenge of the Sith, and thus might not have had some of the strange issues that exists today, such as the inconsistency of Luke's lightsaber color in A New Hope.

 

Or not - like we were discussing earlier today, George Lucas is to Star Wars, as Michael Jackson is to his own face - he just has to keep tweaking it, until finally all he's going to be left with is a mess.

[Lynk Former]

Well none of this would be an issue if Lucas just got his brain working and figure out the fans want the original original trilogy x.x

 

*pokes GL in the eye*