"...a more civilized time."

[El Sitherino]

I've decided to make this thread to get on to those that complain about the crispity of the Prequels.

 

I've grown tired of this, "it's too pretty." "it's too artistic and beautiful, unlike the OT where everything was dirty"

 

well lets see, Obi-Wan himself stated in A New Hope that it was a simpler more elegant time.

 

observe

el·e·gant Pronunciation Key (l-gnt)

adj.

 

Characterized by or exhibiting refined, tasteful beauty of manner, form, or style.

 

it's a time of beauty, before a war was taking place. We can see in our own world that things can go from incredibly beautiful to horribly ugly and mass produced looking. Nazi Germany is a good example, before all that, Germany was a wonderful place, with incredibly beautiful works all over. Then come the nazi's war is declared, everything goes to hell, things look ugly, etc.

 

 

When it was the Old Republic it was elegant, beautiful, peaceful. Then came the emperor, he came into power, suddenly everything was just cheap and mass produced. There was no time spent making things beautiful, just operational and able to use in war.

 

The Naboo fighters were beautifully crafted ships that were able to have time spent on them to make them look glorious, because it was a time of peace, there were no major universal wars. The x-wings, tie fighters, y-wings,. they all were just mass produced weapons of wars.

 

You look at pre-war cars, they're beautiful, well crafted, you look at war-era cars, and often post-war cars, they're boxy and not as beautiful, they're cars for efficiency not style.

 

Jar-Jar is there as a comic relief and a key secondary character. He is the one that was needed that couldn't see past palpatines plans, They had to exagerate his idiocy to get this point across, as annoyingly hysterical as he was, the point came across, he's a bumbling dumbass that can't turn left without help. But there is one thing he can do, screw things up royally with speaking.

 

 

you spout about R2's rockets, you ever hear of rusting, or wearing of gears? Cars have issues like this, my grandmothers car's trunk can't open anymore without us having to go to the back and pry it open, it's an old car and the gears and stuff that made the trunk open with the lever have worn and rusted. So using this thought, it's natural he can't use those anymore. "why not get them fixed you ask?" well first we can assume luke doesn't know about these, second they have better things to spend time repairing than an astro droids rockets.

 

3-PO's head functioning without being on the body, perhaps he used to have a working battery pack that could keep his head working, but over time it lost it's aiblity to function. Like the early iPods that had faulty batteries that once they stopped working you had to get a new iPod or send it in to have it's battery completely replaced. once again, they had better things to do than repair a droids secondary battery/power source.

 

 

I grow weary of these so called super fans that can't see passed their own ego-centric arguments that they refuse to give up on. If you open your mind and try to explain things that occur in the movies yourself, they don't seem so bad. If you think about things it makes sense, it's not just some bull**** that George Lucas made while tripping on acid and hugging his bags of money.

 

 

Now, if you don't like the PT's good for you, don't watch them. If someone asks why you don't like them, fine, let them know. But I grow tired of people just going into random threads spouting "the PT was/is crap" "george has lost his F-ing mind" there is such thing as a place and time for comments, keep those comments in a designated thread, unless asked otherwise, please.

Don't think I'm trying to limit your rights or take them away, this is just a plea, for those of us that accept the PT's as great movies, what I really hate is my opinion being questioned, and criticized. I am as much a star wars fan as anyone, my love of the PT's does not make me some stupid 10 year old child.

Basically, I just grow tired of being treated as some naive child for enjoying the PT's and constantly have hateful words flinged at me when I say I enjoy them.

 

Sorry to have gone into a tangent, I was just upset with having so much of this PT hate thrown around.

[Kjølen]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

they have better things to spend time repairing than an astro droids rockets.

 

they had better things to do than repair a droids secondary battery/power source.

 

Simply from a different standpoint, George Lucas might have had better things to do than have a reason why things worked in one episode but didn't in the next.

 

But I do agree with you. They are movies. Enjoy them, don't pick out what's wrong, enjoy what is cool. XD

[Shok_Tinoktin]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

you spout about R2's rockets, you ever hear of rusting, or wearing of gears? Cars have issues like this, my grandmothers car's trunk can't open anymore without us having to go to the back and pry it open, it's an old car and the gears and stuff that made the trunk open with the lever have worn and rusted. So using this thought, it's natural he can't use those anymore. "why not get them fixed you ask?" well first we can assume luke doesn't know about these, second they have better things to spend time repairing than an astro droids rockets.

 

 

Or maybe they got removed along the way. Say, Artoo was in a ship of some form that was in a mild crash. The ship was only mildly damaged, so they were able to use parts from him on the ship. Or maybe they upgraded him, and replaced the rockets with some other form of technology.

 

 

btw, good thread.

[Lieutenant_kettch]

Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin

Or maybe they got removed along the way. Say, Artoo was in a ship of some form that was in a mild crash. The ship was only mildly damaged, so they were able to use parts from him on the ship. Or maybe they upgraded him, and replaced the rockets with some other form of technology.

 

 

btw, good thread.

 

very possible, and i like the ship scenario, however, i think that R2 can no longer use them, they are there, but he no longer can use them, for example, that little critter gets fried a lot, jawas and power outlets do that, so i think it is plausible that all the electricity coursing through his body wiped them out...

[adillon]

i actually read something (unofficial) on TFN that R2's rockets weren't used in later episodes (i.e. the OT) because the warranty had expired on them and he didn't want to risk them failing mid-flight ... or something along those line.

 

anywho, back to the point ... this is a good thread sith. i believe that anyone posting in these forums is a star wars fan of some kind, some common ground where we can partake in some mature discussions about the brainchild of GL. we're all entitled to our opinions, there's no doubt about that. but to be flamed or berated for expressing that opinion is ridiculous.

[Sivy]

yes, on the OT DVD documentary GL said that he wanted everything to look used and dirty. whereas in the PT everything was to look new and hand built instead of manufactured.

 

people say the PTs don't feel like star wars... well thats the point. we're supposed to see things the way they were, before the "dark times"

[Prime]

You are bang on Sivy.

 

I can't remember where I read/saw it, but Lucas has stated that that is why the PT looks so clean. He is trying to show how the galaxy has degenerated under the rule of Palpatine.

 

War and atrocities have that effect on things.

 

As for the ships in TPM, they are much sleeker and smoother on purpose. Doug Chiang (the lead artist) used the analogy of cars. TPM is like the 50's and 60's where cars were smooth and rounded. Then in AOTC things had started to move more to the boxy look of the 70's. Now for ROTS almost all craft will be boxy like the 70's and 80's, which is much closer to what we see in the OT.

 

Also, my guess is that ROTS will be much closer to the gritty look and feel of SW, since the Clone Wars have been going on for some time.

[Lieutenant_kettch]

GL was obviously able to pull of his goal of the clean/dirty deal.

 

However, i have to disagree with you that the prequels do not feel like "star wars". They are in a similar environment to the EU books, where things start to clean up. Overall, the star wars theme and environment should not be based on one set of movies, but of the entire movie saga and as many books as you can read. This gives you a better grasp of how the SWG was throughout the years. You wouldn't say 1990 America is any more real than 1790 America, because the country adapted to the times, just like SWG has had to adapt through different governments and ideologies.

[TicaL]

Couldn't agree with all of you more, the people who come up with the random "it doesn't feel like star wars" bull, are people who are like Supershadow. Sad enough to quote and write lies to engage the naive into believing there own pityful and stupid thoughts.

 

Also if PT's were dirty and dark then these type of people would of complained that the film was too much the same. They should really take a leaf out of the Jedi's book, don't judge IMO.

 

[*Yoinked*]

I could not have said it myself InsaneSith, everybody is dead on...

 

-Adam G.

[FiEND_138]

Yeah, what everyone else has said.

 

Finally people who remember one of the most important lines from the "OT" to keep in mind when watching the "PT". Rather than "No disintigrations.", or "Best pilot in the galaxy."

 

You people give me hope...............

[Nairb Notneb]

I have enjoyed them. I feel that the similarities and the differences have been adequately balanced.

[Prime]

I'm glad it is not a complete rehash of the OT...

[Nairb Notneb]

If they were the same three movies simply repeated, then what would be the point? In this story of Anakin Skywalker, there are two major themes; Anakin's fall from grace and his return. Each segment has its own characters and themes that are unique, but there are minor characters that arc over and that link the two together. It has been done well, even if it was done backwards.

[El Sitherino]

indeed. I think some people just expect too much from Star Wars, expect everything to make perfect sense. It's star wars, they have sound in the f**king space battles. You can't hear sound in space. Star Wars is good because of what Alec Guiness said about it "it clearly defined good and evil" The clear definition of good and evil and right vs wrong is what makes this a compelling story, screw the visuals, this series is great because no matter who you are you can identify with the characters from both trilogies and the story is simple, yet deep. It's all our struggles brought into one single storyline . Star Wars is great because you get what you put into it.

[Nairb Notneb]

That's true with any story and any thing. The scope of Star Wars is expansive too. The story is told as if you know everything about the universe that it exists in. George didn't go into all of the details or backgrounds of the characters, species, tech, history in the movie, yet the EU does and so does the Web site etc. But it is all there. If you watch the Making Of documentaries, you can see that every little detail means something to George Lucas down to the location of the Jedi Hair Braid on the Padawan's head. ( I don't know what it is I just know that Lucas said that it means something). That is also what makes SW great, it is told in a simple manner, but yet it is very deep and complex in details.

[Evil Dark Jedi]

Originally posted by Sivy

yes, on the OT DVD documentary GL said that he wanted everything to look used and dirty. whereas in the PT everything was to look new and hand built instead of manufactured.

 

people say the PTs don't feel like star wars... well thats the point. we're supposed to see things the way they were, before the "dark times"

 

Yep Yep that seems about right.

[Doomie]

Yeah, when i had seen the PT (just after i saw the OT, i started a bit late with my 'fandom'...) I thought it was great. Of course, i was a lot younger back then, but still... It's around that period that i got interested in starwars. So it all made perfect sense to me. People are just afraid that the Star Wars they know is going to change too much for them, but i was introduced to it all at the same time, so it made sense to me, the dark times and stuff...

[Kurgan]

A nitpick about the thread starting post.

 

 

He didn't say it was a more elegant time. Rather he said:

 

 

"...the weapon of a Jedi Knight, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized age."

 

He's saying the Lightsaber is an elegant weapon, from a more civilized age (before the Empire).

 

Nothing at all about the time of the Old Republic necessarily being more artsy or cultured. He refers to the "Dark Times" associating it with the Empire, but that's that. It's because the Jedi were exterminated and they live under tyrannical and bloodthirsty rule.

 

I don't have a problem with the Prequels culture looking more "shiny" and "futuristic" in places, because it's consistent.

 

In the OT we see Tatooine, a backwater world full of rust and dirt. When we see it in the prequels it looks pretty much the same as it does in the classic era. No big change there.

 

Naboo is a planet we'd never seen before. It's a small quaint planet and the dominate people there are pacifists (they have only a small police force and some fighters and speeders more suited to air shows and arresting pirates than for space warfare). The gungans have an army, but they're isolationists from the rest of the planets populance. The Nabooian (Nubian?) humans have a lot of artsy buildings and clothing, so their vehicles also being that way makes sense.

 

Then we have Coruscant, which, although it was added only in the Special Edition to ROTJ (pre-prequels), it was futuristic and big then, and it still is now.

 

The look of the Imperial Army/Navy. They're not concerned with aesthetics, but function. The big ugly ships and such make sense in that way. Plus they're not meant to impress people with their beauty, they're meant to scare the #@$# out of the people and the "enemies of the state."

 

In TPM we see the first use of a color video screen (on the Trade Federation's ship), which might seem amazing, but we have to remember the prior communications, holograms (staticy, scanlined & blue) are still around and used. While it might be harder to grasp since we're viewing them in a 2-D medium (film), in the SW universe, to the SW characters they are supposed to be three dimensional. A color tv screen, no matter how pretty, pales in comparison to a fully 3-D image, even if it has limited color. There's also evidence that the holograms do have some color, if viewed at the proper angles (usually we don't see them that way, since we're not looking at them from the characters' point of view), much like LCD screens in our own world in the recent past.

 

Out of universe the obvious reason for the "new look" is because Lucas has the full power of CGI at his disposal to show all sorts of eye candy and not have to worry about building thousands of extra models and blue screen them in. In-universe it's simply that we're viewing different planets, with different cultural tastes, and an Imperial Military that didn't exist until the classic trilogy era which had no need for making their stuff look pretty.

 

Yes, it's a change, but it's one that makes complete sense, and unlike some differences between the Prequels and the OT (or the EU), it doesn't require any retconning to understand.

[El Sitherino]

I know he was talking about the lightsaber. But taken into context of how it was said, one can assume he also meant the same about the time.

[Kurgan]

Well.. not really. I simply disagree.

 

If you mean like the "Dark Times" = "Dark Ages", maybe.

 

In the Renaissance period on Earth, they (Europeans, specifically Italians) viewed the medieval period as the "Dark Ages" because they were looking back to an earlier period, that of the Romans & Greeks, as the "enlightened" time. Better art, more learning, more civilized, etc. They sought to re-create and expand upon this in their own time. Since then there's always (until recent centuries) been a certain fondness for the so-called "Classical" period.

 

However, when you get right down to it, looking back from our era, all of those periods had their share of barbarity and ignorance. The fact that people in one time idolized or romanticized earlier times didn't change the fact that they all had their bad points.

 

Likewise it's not as if art disappeared during the middle ages, in fact there was quite a bit of it produced, and some of it simply couldn't have been done during the time of the ancient Greeks or Romans.

 

Does Obi-Wan romanticize the Old Republic? Apparently so. He talks about the Jedi Knights being the good guys (guardians of peace and justice) and he refers to the Dark Times as bringing about (or being) the time of the Empire.

 

But that still doesn't explicitly say that art died as a result of the Empire either. Coruscant looks just as busy and showy as it did before, as did Naboo (in the 2004 DVD edition).

 

Do Totalitarian regimes tend to have a bad effect on art? Well, they can. Note the example of the Emperor's statue shown toppling in ROTJ SE. But we see no real evidence that they've stomped out creativity and style in the galaxy, the movies simply focus on different areas, that don't look the same.

 

Obi-Wan's feelings expressed in that scene are focusing on the style of law enforcement he prefers (Jedi rule, rather than the Empire's rule by fear) and government (the Republic vs. the Empire). For all we known he loves the art and starship design these days. The Jedi aren't supposed to be possessive guys, and they still dress in those drab brown robes after all these years.

[El Sitherino]

Well, whether or not you agree with my assumption of Obi-wan's speaking is irrelevant. The main arguments stand. You said yourself in your first post. The empire was more concerned about function than artistry. Meaning less concentration on aesthetics, more concentration on production.

 

 

Anyway, in the end argueing over such trivial things that really don't change the story will only prove to divide us when we used to be united.

[Kurgan]

I said in my first post that it was a nitpick. I'm sure you read that part. ; )

 

I do agree with you that the prequels are a legitimate part of Star Wars and liking them is just as "FANtastic" as liking the OT.

 

However, I simply arrive at the conclusion in a different way.

 

I also somewhat disagree that as Star Wars fans we "need to be united."

 

Who says that you HAVE to like all of Star Wars to be a true fan? There's lots of aspects of the franchise I don't like. I don't have to like some specific book, etc to be a "true fan."

 

I know you (rightly) decry some fans claiming that liking the prequels is a sin against Star Wars, but on the other hand I'd say that demanding somebody like them is equally intolerant (in the sense of SW fandom).

 

Star Wars has a lot of content in it, as fans we can pick and choose what we like in it, or like all of it if we want.

 

Before the prequels there were lots of (somewhat snobbish at times, I'll admit) fans who basically set ESB up as the ultimate in Star Wars and bashed ROTJ and anything connected with the Ewoks. That same kind of thinking extends to the prequels. But what can you do?

 

There can be other reasons for disliking the prequels, as you said, besides "It doesn't feel like Star Wars." And a person can hate them with a passion without bashing fans who do like them. That I agree with as well.

 

Just say "well I don't like X or Y, but I'll let people like it if they want to."

 

Live and let live? I can agree with you on that!

[El Sitherino]

I wasn't saying we all have to like it, but that people should stop fighting about it. If you don't like it, fine. But I have grown tired of this constant bringing up needless arguements about parts of Star Wars you don't like, just out of the blue.

 

If the arguement is relevant to the thread, fine. But if it's something like "news about episode 3, etc" I don't think people should constantly go in those threads and their post be "the prequels suck" or something similiar. The unity I'm talking about is that we all like Star Wars, some bits we don't like, but we shouldn't just argue with eachother and cause fights because we like different parts than eachother. And I was also trying to address the issue that it is Star Wars, maybe not the Star Wars you(generally speaking, not you specifically ) blinded yourself to see, but it is 100% pure Star Wars, like it or not.

 

I never wished any and everyone to love all of Star Wars, just that we accept that we all like different aspects of it, and cease the constant bickering.

 

My whole point was that the prequels are Star Wars, and people can like them without being some kind of horrible fanboy that'll eat anything up.

[dark jedi 8]

i'll tell you right now that i love the prequals and OT. honestly how many franchises could span 6 movies and still have the popularity of star wars? this is a unique monster that GL created. whether people say they like it or not the PT is a new hope to star wars. it has spawned a whole generation of fans and rekindled the love from previous fans. people may bash the PT but i'm sure they (not necessarily the same people but people in general) did the same when the OT was released.

 

i think to be a true fan you don't have to love all of the movies or read all of the books or try to understand those damn card games. i think a true fan appreciates the rhelm of oppertunity that GL provided us. you can use your own imagination. star wars is a creative playground that GL built. a tall tale for people to escape, if just for an instant, the harsh realities of our own world. that is how i feel anyway. movies are movies, for them to be perfect God or some other divinity would have had to write them. so for people to expect the movies to adhere to perfection is just plain silly.