Kurgan Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Still, a lot of pc's can run the game at 60 fps. So why can't they attempt to do so online? 20 is just too low, unless the netcode for the game is just that bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_IX Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 The netcode IS pretty bad, based on the average pings I get. ~100. I get ~30-50 on most games (CS, etc.). If you look at other connectivity issues (staying on a server, pings of people on servers, etc.) it becomes clear that they needed a way to cut down on the net code problems and this was one way of doing it. The low max fps "hides" the other problems. Combined with other issues I'm sure it was just a stop-gap fix to max the FPS. I hope it's removed/worked around later because it's pretty annoying. We know the engine can handle higher FPS very well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italegion Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 - Players can join games from other regions, North America, Europe, Asia, etc. er...what means exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffking Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 If spawn protection is in, i would suggest that you are no longer protected the moment you fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Originally posted by italegion er...what means exactly? Apparently you couldn't do it before. ; ) I'm guessing each country filtered out the other countries from the server list or something like that. Or perhaps they just weren't compatible (ie: no joining outside your home nation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italegion Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 before what? i always played in international servers .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 In the out of box version? I dunno. I don't work on the devteam... I'm just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 It is indeed a weird fix. The clan in which I am has members from the USA and they can connect just fine to our UK-based server. it just appears in there ingame server browser. perhaps it only applies to non-dedicated servers. Dedicated servers from other regions were available already. edit: nah, the last isn't true either. I was able to see a non-dedicated server from a clanm8 from the USA in the ingame server browser, while I live in the Netherlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rends Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 ...Players can join games from other regions, North America, Europe, Asia, etc. Well even if they talk about the next PC version patch could it be that this is related to PS2 or xbox version? Rends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Originally posted by Jet Black Depending on the way the game and network code is designed, people with a higher framerate could be at an advantage without the cap (they would receive more packets and therefore see a more realistic representation of the world around them). This was a big issue in both JO and JA (at least IIRC it was both). Players with a higher ping would often have the advantage because the saber collision detection was tied to the framerate. Those who had poor pings and framerates would often "miss" because when the saber's location was calculated, it had already passed through their opponant's collision box. Originally posted by Jet Black So, depending on how the game was designed, they may or may not be able to 'remove' the online FPS cap (if my understanding is correct, which it may not be). They might not be able to remove it if much of the game logic is based to some extent on the framerate. So it may be too late to make the change for this game. It just seems to be a poor choice for a way to put players in an "equal footing." It screws over people on a LAN or who have a good framerate. I'm guessing that there are many servers were all the players' connections could easily support 60 fps. Yet they are stuck in the 20-30 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Played some serious MP last night for the very first time really. There are basically only 3 servers (in the in-game browser) listed with decent ping to me, but they fluctuate rapidly. I get anywhere from 150 ms - 320 ms and I'm on DSL. The low framerate + the lag makes it very hard to hit people and lots of deaths from projectils that appear to miss or are still far off. The best way to get kills is still with splash damage or vehicles. Sadly the top server always has a password protection. These are servers with three yellow bars. The rest have 1 red. I will admit ASE provides better results, so I think it's the browser that's goofy. The other problem is without a stable Linux thing and hosting services, there are very few servers available, period and they aren't that fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_IX Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Yeah, the server selection is abysmal... part of the reason why I don't play. It's cyclical. Hard to get playing cause of so few populated servers, so few servers because so few people play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micks75au Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Yes a catch 22.... Hardly encourages you to play if all you get is badly playing servers.We are at a level now in PC games where this should just not be happening. There are many MP online games that have huge areas and a lot of players, that have no where this many issues. I guess time will tell if these guys bit off more than they can chew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 What is funny is that even if I find a low-ping server, it still lags. The FPS is still crappy (for some reason they capped it) and people still move pretty lag. Don't you guys think the bots shouldn't be in Multiplayer? Perhaps they are the cause of something. They're always everywhere so much that it is annoying, I only want to play with Humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Black Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Maybe I'm in the minority, but most of the time I'm successful finding a good server (played the last two nights) and don't have huge issues with lag or the FPS cap. There's some balance issues that are annoying (I think the Jet Trooper's one-shot-kill weapon is too powerful vs the CIS) but overall I had a blast. It's just too bad that I'm in the minority and people will slip away without some fixes soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahoo.s2f Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I am one of those who is getting more and more bored out with this crap ... put more effort into finding a server to stay on then playing ... This server/serverbrowser issue is starting to grow more and more irritating and if no patch SOON i will trash this game. too bad tho cuz i do like it when i do get to play.... maby i should have stayed with the "liberated" version of the game.... *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by Master William What is funny is that even if I find a low-ping server, it still lags. The FPS is still crappy (for some reason they capped it) and people still move pretty lag. Don't you guys think the bots shouldn't be in Multiplayer? Perhaps they are the cause of something. They're always everywhere so much that it is annoying, I only want to play with Humans. I like bots in games, and I've listed the reasons why so many times I don't need to do so again. However, the AI in this game is so poorly programmed I don't blame people for not wanting to use it. But it's up to each admin. It's always silly to be playing when I'm alone vs. a team of like 4 people, without even one bot to help me. But this game is about big battles, and the online community is so small, you need every bit of help you can get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hmmm, about the bot AI, I always play with it on hard level, and find it pretty challenging. Of course, that could be because I suck But in any event, the bots usually give me a run for my money, often beating me, and me just as often beating them. Oh well, maybe I just need to play more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mima kake Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Well the bot's are quite easy I reccon. Nothing beats a human player. But SP it's good practice to figure things out. Still having fun though with this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I confess, I've been playing them since day 1 on "Medium" rather than Hard. I'll have to try Hard (which is also being improved for the next patch they say), but so far, Medium is pathetic. On Mos Eisely for example, about 3/4 of the people on the map (both on your team and the enemy) will just STAND THERE in front of walls, often facing the walls, and you can walk up to them and shoot them to death, often without them turning to face you or firing a shot in their own defense. On Endor the bots will often crouch behind debris and trees (which is good) but will shoot INTO THE WALL trying to hit someone behind it. Also whenever there are Speeder bikes, Bots will rush to them, hop on and crash directly into a solid object, or another speeder bike and die. This is especially frustrating when you needed the vehicle and aren't quite close enough for your "order" to register. About the Orders, it usually takes me 3 or 4 taps of the order button to get a bot to do what I say. If we are low on tickets for example, I can mount a vehicle and tell people to get in, but they will get in, then immediately pile out. If I am in a Droid Tank, I'll hop out and tell the guy inside to "stay put" so I can capture a control point. But he'll move around slightly and run me over! Finally, if I'm standing perfectly still firing off into the distance (at a far off enemy), bots will run directly in front of me (to stand in front of me like they are the Secret Service and I'm the President) and get shot by me. Likewise if I happen to run in front of some bots, they won't hold fire, but continue firing, even if I'm directly in front of them and I get hit. Bots never seem to check at their feet to see if there's a grenade there. They just stand there and continue firing. I often give them a "disperse" order, just in case, but it rarely helps. Grenade at bot's feet = death for them, since they don't dodge. I'm guessing that perhaps these bots just weren't built for Friendly Fire On (which is the setting most servers use). Overall: Not good! And the Jedi are poorly executed. The fact that they are immortal is their only real benefit, since they ignore orders, don't capture anything, and generally just wander around. I've been in many situations where I'm close to a Jedi and getting attacked by a group of bots, but the Jedi will just ignore me and them and run off in some other direction, letting me get killed. I thought they were supposed to help? ; p About the only real challenge the bots have is that they seem to be able to "see through" stuff that we humans can't (such as trees, bushes, etc). I'd be curious to see if that is really how the AI is handled. Because on maps where you can't see anybody, you have to rely on your radar and if your crosshair turns red when you're moving it around. Whereas the bots just nail you from far off. They win by sheer numbers or the fact that they can see you when you can't see them. Standard bot tactics appear to be to stand perfectly still (sometimes ducking) and firing continuously in your general direction. Very little strafing or dodging when it could actually help them, like humans do. I figure giving the bots perfect aim is the only solution they were able to implement for the difficulty. In Single Player the solution was to just throw more and more of them at you. Due to the "hot-spots" your team has no sense of strategy, just rush like lemmings into a choke point and then get mowed down by grenades and each other. Another thing is that if I steal and enemy vehicle, and order bots to get in they are often reluctant to do so. I need to tap the "get in" button maybe 5 or 6 times to get them to do it. I am not surprised that in this particular case it's harder, but that's something they should fix too. Having more options for bot orders would be nice too, and the ability to give orders over longer distances or form squads, etc. Perhaps a special order to target a specific bot and have him do what you say, and another for any bots in the general vacinity? The UT games had some great voice orders for bots. Quake3 gave you a lot of options too, though it was text/command line based. Needless to say, the AI needs some serious improvements. I hear tell that veteran Battlefield players are saying these AI are a step up. But I guess I'm spoiled by the good AI of FPS games like the UT series. I admit, out of box, JA's bots were pretty sad, and the bots in this game have their share of problems (but it depends on the map, on some maps they are worse than others). So far, sadly, while SP SHOULD be a good place to figure things out, it really isn't. Instant Action is pretty much the game itself, but the framerate differences will throw you totally off from real MP, plus the shoddy AI on both sides. You learn how to move and use vehicles, but the bots could really stand to be a lot better. It's not excuse to say "well, everyone will just play without bots so they'll never notice." Given the poor showing of the online community thus far (for understandable reasons), many people don't have the luxury of just playing large human-filled MP games instead. I love playing humans online, that's the point of multiplayer, but bots can really help the experience and aide in training. But these bots just aren't very good in that role, period. ; p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rends Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 No more new official patch posts at the LA board since 20. Okt. No more new posts from Devs (Psych0fred) here at this board about the Linix server and the tools for the Mod comunity. Well i fully understand that working at the stuff needs time but one thing you need to do is to stay in contact with us! Rends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I have not played this myself, but it sounds like a truly awful game. And the very low number of online players out of the gate doesn't bode well for the MP game lasting very long. It is most unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I'm gonna have to disagree Prime. You said yourself, you have not played. You need to wait to play before passing judgement. I, and a few others at echonet find the gam quite enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I concur - this game really is fun. There are some frustrating things about the user interface that are very goofy, but the game itself is quite fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky_Baccy Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 That's very good news about the admin updates Prime: While in fairness the game does currently have a lot of shortcomings (AI for one - though I do find it moderately challenging on Difficult), as Phreak and Vag have said it *is* remarkably fun to play if you can find some real people The game works as a concept, but is perhaps lacking somewhat in implementation... I honestly have no problem with the 30FPS cap, but that could just be me. I'm not saying I don't notice it - just that it doesn't put me off. Guess I'm weird I really like the dynamic of this game, because a lot can change in a very short amount of time, and the way our little group plays it is very strategic at times - it keeps you on your toes, which keeps it fun to play I've always preferred playing MP with friends over joining a random public server, because I just find it a lot more fun, so I'm much less bothered by the general lack of take-up in the MP community than I might otherwise be - though I still think it's a shame :\ Phreak, myself, and about half a dozen others have been playing impromptu games regularly via Direct Connection to one of the group for the past few weeks, so we've not really fussed too much about the various problems with the game - it's just been too much fun to play to complain about I just wish Pandemic would (be allowed by LEC to) release a Linux dedi-server, because then I could put one up 24/7 on my server and be able to host more than six players at a time, like I'm limited to now by hosting dedicated games from home on WinXP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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