Religion???

[Vikinor]

I wasn't calling you an atheist.

 

 

Atheist

 

adj : related to or characterized by or given to atheism; "atheist leanings" [syn: atheistic, atheistical] n : someone who denies the existence of god

 

 

 

You just don't do religion.

 

 

you lucky. get to sleep in on sunday mornings

[Darth Andrew]

Originally posted by VikingLarz

Oh and is everyone aware of the Pope's condition?

 

Sounds like he will most likely die within the next few days, if not sooner. Well, at he will be going to a better place.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by jedispy

I agree that sentient beings to meet these criteria, however non-sentients also can possess them. My cat, for example, is well aware of his environment and surroundings. He knows that there are dangerous lifeforms outside (mainly lawnmowers and neighborhood children :-P ). He has a sense of self awareness. If he sees a reflection of himself in a mirror, he doesn't assume that it is another cat, yet he notices his own reflection. He also has a sense of danger. These are signs of self-awareness. My fat clearly can figure out primative logical matters (how to open the kitty treat jar, etc...)

 

With all that said, I would not say that my cat is sentient by any means.

Then you're a fool.

Your cat is sentient.

 

sen·tient Audio pronunciation of "sentient" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snshnt, -sh-nt)

adj.

 

1. Having sense perception; conscious: “The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage” (T.E. Lawrence).

2. Experiencing sensation or feeling.

[jedispy]

Then you're a fool.

Come now. Let's be respectful. If this is just going to be a flame war, then I respectfully request that this thread be closed. Arguing your point is one thing. Flaming is totally different. Let's be mature rational people. O.k?

 

Well I guess I wasn't meaning that definition. I was meaning more than perceiving sensations. I wasn't trying to play word games. Whatever you want to call it is fine. If that's your game, then play all you want. I honestly don't care.

 

My point is that my cat is a lesser life form. He will never pay taxes. He will never be able to contribute to the family's benefit, other than simply giving us pleasure as a pet, as a possession. I would say that I love my cat, but my human family members come first. If my cat had rabies, I would not hesitate or even bat an eye at putting him down. However if I had a child that got rabies, there would be no limit to the amount of treatment I would give them, no matter what the cost.

 

Do you get it now? THAT is what I meant. Am I still a fool?

[swphreak]

Then that's just having priorities. Nothing to do with sentient life, because your cat is sentient. Perhaps I missed something because I don't get how putting your cat to sleep has to do with discussing religion? Or was that bit about that Terri person that needs to be discussed in the JK.net Senate Chambers.

[PhireStorm]

Jehovah Witnesses? Didn't they annunciate the Apocalypse 5 times till today - and were always wrong?

 

Not apocalypse, Armagedon. We are certain that it is very close, but we never said a date. You might be talking about 1914, but that is really when satan was thrown down from heaven (previously he went back and forth; no, we believe there is no hell, rather other christain religons derive this from gehenna, which was an ever burning fire that ppl used to destroy garbage, later on in te bible, it said evil doers will be eternally in gehenna, but it just simply means they will be dead, forever) Satan was so mad about being thrown down form heaven, he went on a rampage corrupting mankind, thus starting WW1. It says in the bible many signs will apear, such as more frequent earthquakes, and thus there is. So the end is very near, but not here

 

And on Pre-Marrital Sex, i saw in sumwhere in thar, God says its wrong. If you think, ts also for our protection. It avoids issues of abortion (which is considered killing in the bible), STD, and soforth. Jehovah witness have many moral standard, but it turns out for the better in all the cases, so thats why Im very happy and strong in my religon (I regurally attend sunday, tuesday, thursday, and field service [where we go to ppls doors] almost 10 hours each month), so there is no argument if Im happy or not.

[Mythos]

Well, I meant 1874, 1. October 1914, 1925, 1975 and 2000.

However, since they were not all "official" I agree, that christians annunciate more "end of days".

And the number-mystics had about that much, too.

 

Hey Hey, every religion was sometimes wrong. Some ignored it, some corrected their teachings.

And science was wrong, more often than any religion.

It does not really matter, what you believe in, as long as you remember to check, that it is (still) right from time to time.

 

 

 

 

Another think:

 

Heretical thesis: Shouln't all religions agree, that children are to be raised agnostic, untill they are old enough to think for themselves?

I mean: No matter what the right religionä is, there are millions of children, that are told to believe in false deities from thier parents. And they have to believe it, this is kind of brain-washing.

What do you think?

[PhireStorm]

Teaching them is the parents decison. and to be fair, i explained 1914, it wasnt the apoclypse, but Christ becoming King and throwing satan down.(its a big timetable, and i really dont wanna explain the little i know of it) And 2000, you might be thinking of everyone, the Y2k bug, ppl in my congregation thought that 2001 would definitly come.

[jedispy]

StarWarsPhreak, you are right, this got way off topic. By sentient, I meant only that there is a distinction from humans and animals. I was not necessarily attempting to make a scientific statement, and what I said was taken entirely out of context. I had to look back and see where this silly argument started. It had to do with question on unborn humans, whether they are sentient or not. If sentient means possessing senses and self awareness, then I suppose, amorally (devoid of moral meaning), then they would not be sentient. They may have feelings of pain, but humans don't develop self-awareness until later. However, I suppose I have my own definition of sentience (if that makes me a fool, then so be it.) I interpret the part in Genesis where it speaks of God breathing life into the human He created. What does that mean? Does it refer to possession of a soul? Sentience? Scientifically, I have no clue. Frankly it doesn't matter. However I believe that it sets us apart from all other animals.

 

I also look at sentience potential. As I stated earlier, I do not support abortion (I'm not looking at getting into a big abortion debate. That's a big ol' can 'o' worms that I'm not going to touch). Nevertheless, I believe that a fused human sperm and egg make a complete human being. Yes it is a single cell organism, incapable of thought, feeling, or sensation. However, life is sacred, especially human life. It is my opinion that this lifeform is a pre-sentient being.

 

PHEW. That was my point. Blown entirely out of context. I'm almost sorry for bringing it up.

 

I respect that you guys all have your own faiths (even StarWarsPhreak, who professes no creed at all has his own convictions). Good for you. I try to be open-minded when it comes to other people and their faiths. For example, I am not Catholic. I do not recognize the pope as any religious authority over me. However, I respect that this is a sad time for many in that denomination. The Bible says to be all things to all people. Therefore, I mourn for my Catholic brothers.

 

Shouln't all religions agree, that children are to be raised agnostic, untill they are old enough to think for themselves?

I guess I agree with phirestorm on this one. It's up to the parents. The Torah commands that Jewish parents raise their kids in the beliefs and customs highlighted in the Law of Moses. This is something that is carried over to most of Christianity. I think it's a good idea to raise your children with the system of beliefs that you hold to. It makes sense. For example, I like the Minnesota Vikings (even though they suck....whoa man we need to get better) I'm going to raise my boys to like them too. It is human nature, whether it's religious or not.

 

According to the Bible, all people are sinners and fall short of God's glory. So what it means is, even if my parents are Christians, it doesn't mean anything in regards to my eternal welfare. With that in mind, I prefer to raise my children in a way that I believe will benefit their eternal welfare. The choice is still theirs, but I prompt them along. Is that wrong? I don't think so. Muslims do it. Jews do it. Heck, even hardcore atheists do it. It's human nature.

[PhireStorm]

i agree with JediSpy, life, no matter what kind is valuable. what seperates from the animals is the ability to reason. no animal has ever been recorded on reasoning, possibly learning, but those are completely different. ex: A Monkey burns his hand on stove, doesnt do it again because it accoistiates hurt with stove, but humans reason, since the stove is off, "I ont get burned". I talking about capable humans, not babies. This is why human life is so valuable. And God breathing life into his nostrils just means he became alive. Nothing more. Jehovah Witness' dont believe in a soul, becasue it indicates in various places that the soul if life. When you die, so does your soul. And when your dead, your dead, not in heaven. Later on after armagedon on the paradise earth, you will be resurrected on earth, not heaven. The heaven is limited to the annointed ones, Jesus, Jehovah, and the angels. The annointed ones are 144,000 individuals annointed at pentacost 33 c.e. Many of them fell out of faith, so new ones were appointed. Only 8,000 annointed are left today. Then the Great Tribulation will come, which is when all government ban religion. ( i think, not sure, from memory)

[Sabretooth]

When I saw the thread title I knew this would end up in a debate/argument/war sooner or later...

 

So frail are the politics of the Cantina...

[jedispy]

Well I certainly did not intend on any religious debates. Here in America, you can believe whatever you want. If you want to say that Jesus is the son of Bill Gates, and we have to worship Windows, then by all mean, worship it. I don't care.

 

I did present questions for other people. I apologize for stirring the pot a little on those questions. However I respect each person's faith statements.

 

For example, I disagree with most of what PhireStorm says (frankly much of it is not found in the Bible, or is taken wildly out of context) but it's o.k. He/she is a'ight in my book, and I'd play Xbox with him/her any day of the week, and I'd gladly stand in line for hours upon hours outside of ROTS on 5/19/2005. No argument there. Am I right fellas?

[PhireStorm]

Originally posted by jedispy

(frankly much of it is not found in the Bible, or is taken wildly out of context)

 

I take extreme offense. I live my life around the bible. Unless you personally read the bible, and study it, I wish you will not insult. If your comparing it the Catholics, it IS different, but not wrong.

I can back up my statements, such as in Genesis 2:7, it says, " And Jehovah God proceeded to form man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul. In Jeremiah15:9, it says, "her soul struggled for breath", and in Deuteronomy 19:21, it says, "And your eye should not feel sorry: soul will be for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, foot for foot". So if a soul is what most catholics believe in (the spirit that goes to heaven), then why does it say these things that are similar to life, or the body? Just because you never heard of it doesnt mean it isnt there. I wont offend your beliefs, so please dont offend mine. I will defend myself

[jedispy]

Well actually I do read the Bible. I read it quite often. I've also read the New Testament in the literal, original Koine Greek, and had a native Greek teacher. I've done textual criticism on the different families of documents. I would like to study Hebrew and read the original Old Testament texts. (incidently, I am limited to the Septuagint since I've studied the Greek.)

 

My purpose was not to offend, but looking back I see how it was offensive. Guess I've annoyed enough people in this thread. It's not really going anywhere anymore anyway. It's just become a discussion of:

"My religion is better"

"Nuh-uh b1tc#, mine is"

"shut up tard"

"no you shut up"

 

As fun as that is, I've got too much living to do. Later.

<Jedispy unsubscribes from this thread>

 

image taken from http://www.bustedtees.com

[General Kenobi]

I vote we all get this force thing down and become jedi We could make it a "Church of The Jedi." Only difference is Jedi's Witnesses will use sabers on your doors if you don't answer

[Sabretooth]

Originally posted by Darth Melignous

"Church of The Jedi."

 

"Temple of Jedi."

 

No Church, no Mosque, no *insert name of worshipping place here*. It's a TEMPLE of the Jedi.

 

[NiCK-LeSS]

i believe in satan (Just kidding)

 

i dont think i believe in any religions.

[The Hidden One]

Jedi Witness's, the new religion!

Where YOU control the fate of the galaxy!

not availble in all quadrants.

[Astrotoy7]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

Then you're a fool.

Your cat is sentient.

 

yes indeed pf course cats are sentient. speaking of which...here is Lizzy, my 6 week old pure breed british blue kitten ! mreow !

 

* * *

 

bah, these threads are always ugly....

 

Kurgz, can we amend the rules to include "no religious discussion outside the senate chambers"

 

there are wonderful religious debates raging in the senate, plz go there peoples...

 

It's not really going anywhere anymore anyway. It's just become a discussion of:

"My religion is better"

"Nuh-uh b1tc#, mine is"

"shut up tard"

"no you shut up"

 

werd. no fun at all.

 

*thread closed until religious harmony is achieved in the world*

 

mtfbwya

[El Sitherino]

I have decided this thread needs more kittens. If action must be taken, blame astro.

 

[Astro]..aawww so darn cute !!