Banning gay marrages should it be allowed

[SkinWalker]

God's reasons are not irrelevent, because he made everything, why wouldn't the Creator of life and everything on this earth, have a say in what is right and what is wrong, and where His reasons are relevent or not.

 

What if I assert that the creator of all is Watanka and that Watanka has nothing to say about homosexuality at all? My creator is the correct one, not yours. Yours is heresy, blasphemous and an afront to all that is actually holy.

 

But if your god is real and really has something to say, let him say it. He doesn't appear to actually say anything at all. Therefore, let us turn to humanity and logic to reason out what should be legal and illegal. Until such time as someone offers a logical, reasoned argument as to why same-sex marriage should be made illegal, the reasoned, logical arguments win. And there are many, not the least of which is that it is beneficial to society to create more combined income families.

[ET Warrior]

The core of the matter here, is that it should not technically affect Christians in any way if gay marriage is allowed or not. It shouldn't affect anyone who isn't gay themselves. Just like I don't feel bad for eating beef while Hindu's cannot, or pork while Muslims cannot. I don't feel bad about eating during Ramadan, I don't feel bad about working on Sundays. And nobody seems to give me any trouble for doing that, though I am in fact violating their religions. It's because it's not what I believe in. The fact that I do it doesn't affect them in any way, so why should they even bother me about it? They don't, and shouldn't.

[Master_Ginn]

But if your god is real and really has something to say, let him say it. He doesn't appear to actually say anything at all. Therefore, let us turn to humanity and logic to reason out what should be legal and illegal. Until such time as someone offers a logical, reasoned argument as to why same-sex marriage should be made illegal, the reasoned, logical arguments win. And there are many, not the least of which is that it is beneficial to society to create more combined income families.

He has said it, it's in His word, called the Bible. And what has humanity gotten us? Nothing but death.

The core of the matter here, is that it should not technically affect Christians in any way if gay marriage is allowed or not. It shouldn't affect anyone who isn't gay themselves. Just like I don't feel bad for eating beef while Hindu's cannot, or pork while Muslims cannot. I don't feel bad about eating during Ramadan, I don't feel bad about working on Sundays. And nobody seems to give me any trouble for doing that, though I am in fact violating their religions. It's because it's not what I believe in. The fact that I do it doesn't affect them in any way, so why should they even bother me about it? They don't, and shouldn't.

What do you mean by technically? Like in a physical way?And you bring up a good point, but like i said in our country it should be legal if we are truly free. And i don't know if you mean the whole sunday thing is Chritianity or another religion,if it is Christianity you are refering to, the sabbath is actual on a saturday. And once Christ came and the church was formed, the whole resting on the sabbath was no longer needed. Basically the sabbath was a day to rest, just as God did when He formed the Universe, and not resting on the sabbath was deemed as not trusting in God that He could privide for you even if you didn't work. At least thats kind of how I interpretate it.

[lukeiamyourdad]

What do you mean by technically? Like in a physical way?And you bring up a good point, but like i said in our country it should be legal if we are truly free.

 

But we are free and it doesn't mean that freedom leads to anarchy. The reason why we are not free is the simple principle of your freedom ending where the other's start.

In this case, Christian freedom is not hampered at all since nobody is forcing priests of any religion to perform homosexual weddings. Thus, your freedom is hampered in no way.

 

I do wonder why it's more politically correct for Christians to try and stop homosexuals at every turn but they won't dare to hamper the rights of a Muslim man.

[Master_Ginn]

I do wonder why it's more politically correct for Christians to try and stop homosexuals at every turn but they won't dare to hamper the rights of a Muslim man.

Perhaps it is because all sorts of religions are practice here in the U.S. and its been that way since long before most of us were born. They've been here for so long and the two co-exist and it cannot be changed. It is apart of "everyday life". And Christians can stop gay marraige before it can be made "everyday life". That is why there is a "political correctness"(if it even deemed politically correct) going against gay marriage.I'm having a hard time getting this out, so if this is confusing i will try to restate this in better words.......if they come to me.

but I AM technically a christian I was baptised as one but I DON'T BELIEVE in religion any more because it conflicts so much with my system of values and to ban gay marriage based solely on religious reasons is not a VALID reason at all because of the SEPARATION of church and state and there is NO legal reason to ban such a thing

So do you still believe you are a Christian, but just not in religious terms? I'm a little confused.

[ET Warrior]

What do you mean by technically? Like in a physical way?

No, I mean that it doesn't affect you in any real way. Like, it's something that happens, and you notice it happening, but it doesn't happen to YOU, so it doesn't matter.

 

if it is Christianity you are refering to, the sabbath is actual on a saturday.

I actually didn't know that, but that isn't my point anyways. My point is that there are a LOT of things that I do that violate a lot of different religions, but it doesn't matter because it's not affecting them.

[RevanA4]

So do you still believe you are a Christian, but just not in religious terms? I'm a little confused.

 

No i do not consider my self a christian anymore I have even gone as far as discounting gods exsitance. to put it more mildly I HATE RELIGION every single one conficts with my system of values

 

and I have YET to see one of you relilgious types give a valid reason for banning Gay marraige and because it is a SIN isn't even close to a valid reason in any sense of the word

 

all I said is I am technically christian because that is what I was baptised as one

[Tyrion]

No i do not consider my self a christian anymore I have even gone as far as discounting gods exsitance. to put it more mildly I HATE RELIGION every single one conficts with my system of values

 

So you hate religion because it conflicts with your views? You're being just as intolerant as the religions you're defying. How do you discount God, as well? It's just as hard to find proof against God as it is to find proof for him.

[TK-8252]

They've been here for so long and the two co-exist and it cannot be changed.

 

Yeah, straights and gays have been around for so long, both co-exist and cannot be changed either. What's your point?

[El Sitherino]

I HATE RELIGION every single one conficts with my system of values

Really? Care to give examples?

 

*echoes ty's sentiments as well*

 

Hypocrisy isn't a good thing.

[RevanA4]

Really? Care to give examples?

 

*echoes ty's sentiments as well*

 

Hypocrisy isn't a good thing.

 

wait one hot second I hate religion I don't dislike people because they are religious if that is what you thought. heck my best friend is one of the most religious people I know

 

examples in most every religion being gay is a sin and marrying someone of the same sex is out of the question. This goes against my values system because I believe in equality in everything and yes I know I don't always seem that way by my post and stuff but I do truly have that belief.

 

second I believe in tolerance which there is none towards other religions

 

and unless my history teacher told me wrong the word Muslim in Arabic means peace and if I am wrong someone please tell me

 

and in most religions my values would be consider against them so why believe in them.

 

damn this is hard to explain

 

lets just say that what I believe in goes against any religion I am aware of.

[Master_Ginn]

and I have YET to see one of you relilgious types give a valid reason for banning Gay marraige and because it is a SIN isn't even close to a valid reason in any sense of the word

Sin is a very valid reason, you being a former Christian should know that.

No, I mean that it doesn't affect you in any real way. Like, it's something that happens, and you notice it happening, but it doesn't happen to YOU, so it doesn't matter.

One could say that about a lot of things, murder, rape, among other things. But you see, murder, rape doesn't happen to me, but it does matter to me, because it is wrong, just as gay marriage is wrong to me. Kind of see what i'm getting at? I know rape and murder are a far cry from being gay, i'm just using it for a comparison.

Yeah, straights and gays have been around for so long, both co-exist and cannot be changed either. What's your point?

Basically, being gay is looked down upon more than being Muslim, that is why its being attacked. Homosexuals have never been accepted in society, am i right? It's an easier thing to fight when it hasn't been socially accepted.

[El Sitherino]

Except murder and rape do effect you whether you know it or not. Plus rape and murder are violent acts against people. Being gay is hardly a violent act in which people are harmed.

[RevanA4]

Basically, being gay is looked down upon more than being Muslim, that is why its being attacked. Homosexuals have never been accepted in society, am i right? It's an easier thing to fight when it hasn't been socially accepted.

 

this statement is exactly why i don't beleive in religion

 

you would have to be in my shoes to even begin to understand how much this effects me

 

so unless you read the first post in this thread and actually are around this kind of thing all the time you WILL never undersand

 

so trying to convince you is pointless

[lukeskywalker1]

this statement is exactly why i don't beleive in religion

 

Former Christian? Baptism doesn't make you a Christian. Study the religion before you try to disprove it. You know, a lot of people like to know what they don't believe in. Not what they think they don't believe in.

 

I know its impossible to fully, or maybe even partially understand a religion you don't believe in, or are not a part of. But please, understand the religion and don't shout out crap about something YOU don't understand.

 

to put it more mildly I HATE RELIGION every single one conficts with my system of values

 

Man, you must have some low morals, if every religion conflicts with your moral beliefs. Man, I thought the Bible said lying, stealing, and murder were wrong... right? And considering the Bible doesn't say not to treat everyone with equality, I would say that you, are wrong. In fact, as stated in the other thread, your supposed to love everyone as you love yourself. Its a fact. Like I said above... don't shout out things, when you really don't understand.

 

Your simply going by what you have heard. Check it out for yourself.

 

so trying to convince you is pointless

 

I'll say that I read the first post, and the posts after that. And I would conclude that from the start, I ruled out convincing you. Not that I am really trying to, just to put my point across, as a Christian.

 

you would have to be in my shoes to even begin to understand how much this effects me

 

Right back at ya, pal.

[Master_Ginn]

so trying to convince you is pointless

As it is with every single person in this thread, so it makes this thread pointless.

[lukeskywalker1]

Always is. *sigh

[El Sitherino]

you would have to be in my shoes to even begin to understand how much this effects me

I demand explination.

[RevanA4]

Former Christian? Baptism doesn't make you a Christian. Study the religion before you try to disprove it. You know, a lot of people like to know what they don't believe in. Not what they think they don't believe in.

 

I know its impossible to fully, or maybe even partially understand a religion you don't believe in, or are not a part of. But please, understand the religion and don't shout out crap about something YOU don't understand.

 

dude I used to got to church and the whole nine yards so DON'T lecture me I know both sides

 

Man, you must have some low morals, if every religion conflicts with your moral beliefs. Man, I thought the Bible said lying, stealing, and murder were wrong... right? And considering the Bible doesn't say not to treat everyone with equality, I would say that you, are wrong. In fact, as stated in the other thread, your supposed to love everyone as you love yourself. Its a fact. Like I said above... don't shout out things, when you really don't understand.

 

Your simply going by what you have heard. Check it out for yourself.

 

Right back at ya, pal.

 

you don't know me so DON'T make conclusions that you have no proof of

 

and I have read the bible cover to cover and lets say "GOD" is in tolerant of those who don't believe as he thinks they should. now how the puck is that treating other fairly I ask you. answer it isn't so how is your "god" right I ask. this is just one of the many values of mine that religion goes against.

 

and as for being gay is a sin who the heck said that and what makes you think he is right jeeze (yet another one of my values that is looked down on by religions)

 

and christianity leaves no room for you to question you beliefs who is that right It isn't (yet another one)

 

damnit I'm constently questioning everything as to its validity you can do that when you are following a religion.

 

so stop and just the fact that you are argueing with me is another sign of intolerance amoung religions

 

so how can you say that you are right you can't geeze

[RevanA4]

I demand explination.

 

this whole banning of gay marraiges is very much a part of my life plz reread my first post cuz I don't feel like retyping it.

[Tyrion]

this whole banning of gay marraiges is very much a part of my life plz reread my first post cuz I don't feel like retyping it.

 

I've reread your first post, and it still doesn't affect you. It affects your friends yes, but whether or not they're married shouldn't mean a thing to you.

[Darth Andrew]

dude I used to got to church and the whole nine yards so DON'T lecture me I know both sides

It depends on when you left Christianity. Did you leave it in your teens, or did you leave a year or less ago? I'm just asking, as if you left in your teens when you would most likely start studying your faith in-depth, you still wouldn't know everything that can be be known to fully understand your faith.

 

and christianity leaves no room for you to question you beliefs...

Heck, I sometimes question my beliefs, but I'm never labeled, "Heathen, BEGONE!" It's in human nature to question the existance of (a) God, so if I was straying away, I would pray to him to help me understand more, and if the nonexistance of God troubled me so much that I didn't believe in him, well, I could then just simply leave it.

 

so stop and just the fact that you are argueing with me is another sign of intolerance amoung religions

Wait, so if I argue with my best friend over which MLB team is the best, one of us is intolerant? You're intolerant if you point-blank refuse to accept something. So while those in this thread who don't want gay marriage because of our religious views, we can most likely grudgingly accept it.

[Aash Li]

*yawns* When did this thread turn into such a flame war?

 

Point: the bible says man should not lay with man... and while that is a pretty sexist view point, we could go along with that to the other extreme and say that it says nothing about women laying with women.

 

Point: some religions, and old guys in robes behind pulpits say its a sin. No ones discounting that fact.

 

Point: in order for the US to retain its title of land of the free, and its claim that it doesnt have a state religion, it cant morally ban gays and lesbians from marrying or getting hitched or whatever you want to call it. Otherwise its hypocrisy. And if you thought about it honestly you would see this point... but Im repeating myself...

 

Saying you hate religions because you dont agree with their view points and values isnt really hypocrisy. Alot of religions have codes and "values" that I dislike and dont agree with, I dislike religions because they tend to drive a wedge in between the peoples they are trying to draw together, and this is largely because different people interprete holy scriptures differently leading to factions and sects and schisms and jihads and what have you.

 

My vote when I first cast it was to allow for gay marriages and not ban them .. not sure what I had voted originally though.

 

Its not anyones place to tell someone else how to live when you get down to it. The bible in the new testament, which is technically the only part youre supposed to pay attention to according to itself says that youre supposed to love your neighbour as yourself above any and all other commandments (paraphrased), and you cant very well do that if your full of hate and bigotry.

 

Anyway, this thread is boring now, so I doubt Ill be checking back (sorry Revan)...

[RevanA4]

I've reread your first post, and it still doesn't affect you. It affects your friends yes, but whether or not they're married shouldn't mean a thing to you.

 

and why the heck shouldn't I care weither or not they can marry what kind of friend would I be If i didn't

 

edit: I am leaveing this thread alone for a while

[Tyrion]

and why the heck shouldn't I care weither or not they can marry what kind of friend would I be If i didn't

 

The reason you shouldn't care is the same reason why Christians shouldn't care. It does not affect you. Wether or not gays marry should be entirely up to them, not what you or someone else wants them to do. Yes, you should be concerned about their rights but in the end this doesn't affect you at all.