PC Recommendations

[Char Ell]

I'm about ready to bite the bullet and get a new system. My P4 1.5 GHz w/ 64 MB Nvidia GeForce graphics just doesn't cut it anymore. Well, it hasn't for a while but the time has fully arrived for me to get the latest and greatest I can afford...

 

I've pretty much decided on the Dell XPS Gen 5. I find It offers the most bang for the buck but I thought that maybe some of our more tech savvy forum members might have some other suggestions on a good gaming platform that might be better than Dell's gaming system.

 

Ideas/comments anyone?

[EmptyWords]

if you wanna get something 100% gaming, go for alienware, but since they charge you LIST prices for everything, i say go to a store and get a custom ordered pc, and you might come off better. but im not a computer genius, im jsut speaking what i think would be better

[stingerhs]

well, i wouldn't so much as recommend a specific brand as opposed to simply recommending different pieces of hardware, since that's what will deturmine how well you system runs in the first place. basically, i'd follow a couple of guidelines:

 

1. When you pick your processor, keep in mind one very important detail: Intel does not make the best processors. this has been proven a number of times, and especially recently with the duel-core processors. currently, the performance leader is AMD in both the single-core and duel-core markets, and not to mention AMD is way ahead in terms of 64-bit capable processors. if you have money to spend, i personally recommend either the Athlon64 FX-57 (single-core) or the Athlon64 4800 X2 (duel-core). at the moment, that also means that i don't recommend any Dell system due to Dell only offering Intel processors in their systems.
   
2. be very careful at the moment with video cards. if you're searching for a deal, this is not the time. a lot of people are watching ATI very closely for the pending release of the R230-based card. supposedly, it has the power to spank the living crap out of nVidia's GeForce 7800 GTX. and once its released, you can be sure that the prices for video cards might go down a bit. but if you're insistant on getting a new computer now, you could splurge for a system with an SLI setup with TWO GeForce 7800 GTX cards. granted, that'll set you back about $1200 without buying anything else. from what i hear, though, that's currently the fastest setup for gaming you can get. my personal recommendation: wait for ATI to release their next generation of cards. nVidia is bound to lower prices in order to steal sales away from ATI. and my recommendation there is to go with a GeForce 7800 GT. its not quite as fast as the GTX, but you definately can't go wrong there.
   
3. get a sound card of some kind, preferably a Sound Blaster X-Fi. personally, i wouldn't recommend shelling out the dough for the X-Fi Fatal1ty or the X-Fi Pro since they don't get you that much more for your money. but i do recommend going for one of the X-Fi processors due to all the audio goodies they come with. sure you could stick with integrated sound, but you will miss out on the quality.
   
4. Get a DVD-burner of some kind. trust me, it comes in handy when you need to back up a lot of files.
   
5. unless you're really into video editting or audio editting, i wouldn't recommend going for a HD larger than 120GB in size. honestly, if you can fill up a 120GB HD with nothing but game installs and MP3's, you really need to get a life.
   
6. if you're gonna get a monitor, you really need to take a hard look at what's more important. LCD monitors are finally catching up to the quality of CRT monitors in terms of graphics quality in gaming, so you won't find much of a difference there. otherwise, you need to decide what's more important: deskspace or money. CRT's are much cheaper than LCD's, but they take up a ton of space (and they weigh a ton). LCD's are still quite expensive, but they don't take up hardly any deskspace. so, you'll just have to decide for yourself which is more important.

 

that's really about it, unless you decide to build your own computer from the ground up, which is what i plan to do in about a year or so. things get a bit more complicated if you take that route, but i think just paying attention to what i suggested in terms of hardware will go a long way for you. remember: if you don't pay attention to what you buy, then don't complain when something goes wrong.

[EmptyWords]

try newegg.com they usualy have the best prices around, unless you wanna try ebay, but i wouldnt trust ebay

[Char Ell]

Thanks for the advice stinger. I've built a couple of systems but it's been a few years since I built my last. It seems to be though that unless I want to pirate software (and I don't) it's cheaper to buy from a manufacturer. I would go with Alienware like EmptyWords recommends because I like their Aurora 7500 but they're $400-$500 US dollars more expensive than a comparatively equipped Dell system. I can't justify spending that much more to myself. And as far as the AMD vs. Intel performance goes I've always used Intel. It's not that I'm against AMD but Intel is all I've ever dealt with. And since I live in the Phoenix area and Intel has a couple of fabs some miles south of where I live there is always the possibility I could get a job there... Then what would I do with my AMD system?

 

But seriously though, do you think I could build a complete system with:

• Athlon64 4800 X2 CPU
  
• 1 GB RAM (hi-performance)
  
• 256 MB video card (performance equivalent to ATI Radeon X850 XT PE or better)
  
• SoundBlaster X-Fi
  
• 80 GB SATA 10,000 RPM HDD and 160 GB SATA 7,200 RPM HDD
  
• DVD+/-R+/-RW drive
  
• 24" LCD
  

 

along with licenses for Windows XP Pro and a leading anti-virus product for < $2700 US? If you think I can then I'm interested in hearing more because it doesn't seem possible to me. I haven't really done any serious recent research on this though. I'm just going off my experience of about 3+ years ago when I did a cost analysis of building my own system or buying one from a manufacturer. Buying was definitely cheaper than building my own at that time.

[TheOssusKeeper]

I have done both, built my own and bought a new pc, they both have their pros and cons. The one i built was a good mid range pc at the time for the money i spent on building it, but after a couple of years, there was so many advancements that it more or less became out-dated compared to the newer cpu's and the software demanding a faster cpu speed just to run. If you go with new bought pc, go with one that will cover all the requirements of some of the most demanding software. Cpu speed (GHz), Memory (RAM), Storage space (HDD), etc. and also pick a pc that will allow you room to grow (upgrade things)... basically it boils down to personal preference, but you don't want to sell yourself short either when comes to getting a pc. If you get a new one, you might as well get one of the top of the line models of which ever brand you go with. The same can be said if you build a pc, go with top quality parts. And leave yourself room for upgrades. Personally, I like the Dell XPS Gen 5 and the AlienWare pc's, but that’s just me, I'm sure there are others out there that are comparable.

[EmptyWords]

Thanks for the advice stinger. I've built a couple of systems but it's been a few years since I built my last. It seems to be though that unless I want to pirate software (and I don't) it's cheaper to buy from a manufacturer. I would go with Alienware like EmptyWords recommends because I like their Aurora 7500 but they're $400-$500 US dollars more expensive than a comparatively equipped Dell system. I can't justify spending that much more to myself. And as far as the AMD vs. Intel performance goes I've always used Intel. It's not that I'm against AMD but Intel is all I've ever dealt with. And since I live in the Phoenix area and Intel has a couple of fabs some miles south of where I live there is always the possibility I could get a job there... Then what would I do with my AMD system?

 

But seriously though, do you think I could build a complete system with:

• Athlon64 4800 X2 CPU
  
• 1 GB RAM (hi-performance)
  
• 256 MB video card (performance equivalent to ATI Radeon X850 XT PE or better)
  
• SoundBlaster X-Fi
  
• 80 GB SATA 10,000 RPM HDD and 160 GB SATA 7,200 RPM HDD
  
• DVD+/-R+/-RW drive
  
• 24" LCD
  

 

along with licenses for Windows XP Pro and a leading anti-virus product for < $2700 US? If you think I can then I'm interested in hearing more because it doesn't seem possible to me. I haven't really done any serious recent research on this though. I'm just going off my experience of about 3+ years ago when I did a cost analysis of building my own system or buying one from a manufacturer. Buying was definitely cheaper than building my own at that time.

 

 

go to newegg.com and check out the prices there, from there you would probably get an idea of how much everythign would cost, and i think you should get 2 gigs of ram instead of 1.

[stingerhs]

And as far as the AMD vs. Intel performance goes I've always used Intel. It's not that I'm against AMD but Intel is all I've ever dealt with. And since I live in the Phoenix area and Intel has a couple of fabs some miles south of where I live there is always the possibility I could get a job there... Then what would I do with my AMD system?

i don't think Intel execs are going to care that one of their employees uses a competitor's stuff. still, it would have a bit of irony to it.

But seriously though, do you think I could build a complete system with:

• Athlon64 4800 X2 CPU
  
• 1 GB RAM (hi-performance)
  
• 256 MB video card (performance equivalent to ATI Radeon X850 XT PE or better)
  
• SoundBlaster X-Fi
  
• 80 GB SATA 10,000 RPM HDD and 160 GB SATA 7,200 RPM HDD
  
• DVD+/-R+/-RW drive
  
• 24" LCD
  

 

along with licenses for Windows XP Pro and a leading anti-virus product for < $2700 US? If you think I can then I'm interested in hearing more because it doesn't seem possible to me. I haven't really done any serious recent research on this though. I'm just going off my experience of about 3+ years ago when I did a cost analysis of building my own system or buying one from a manufacturer. Buying was definitely cheaper than building my own at that time.

well, give me about an hour, and i'll get back to ya....

[stingerhs]

i had to make three compromises, but for the most part, its exactly what you wanted. here ya go:

 

Motherboard- ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

$176 linky

 

CPU- AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 1GHz FSB 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor - Retail

$559 linky

 

GPU- BFG Tech BFGR78256GTOC Geforce 7800GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

$405 linky

 

Power Supply- Antec TRUE CONTROL 550 ATX 550W Power Supply 115/230 V

$99 linky

 

Hard Drive- Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 SATA NCQ ST3160827AS 160GB 7200 RPM 8M Cache Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM

$86.50 linky

 

DVD-Burner- Pioneer Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 40X CD-R 32X CD-RW 40X CD-ROM 2M Cache IDE DVD Burner - OEM

$46.99 linky

 

RAM- Crucial 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) System Memory - OEM

$105.98 linky

 

Case- Thermaltake Armor VA8000BNS Black Chassis: 1.0mm SECC, Front Bezel: Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail

$159 linky

 

Monitor- ViewSonic VP201B Black 20.1" 16ms LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 400:1 0.255mm Pixel Pitch - Retail

$599.95 linky

 

Sound Card- Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum (SB0460P)

$199.99 linky

 

OS- Microsoft Windows XP Professional w/SP2 and MS Plus! - OEM

$169.95 linky

 

System Security- VCOM System Suite 6.0 - Retail

$44.99 linky

 

Total Price- $2652.35

 

in case your wondering, i compromised on the HD (couldn't find a 10,000 RPM SATA HD) and the monitor. i still hooked you up with a very nice 21", so i don't think its too much of a compromise. i also slighty compromised on the CPU. instead of the Athlon 4800X2, i posted the Athlon 4400X2. however, both CPU's are literally the same architecture except for the clock speeds, so its pretty easy to just slighty overclock the 4400X2 and get the same chip.

 

note: the X-Fi series of cards hasn't been released to the public just yet, so i had to post a preorder from Circuit City. otherwise, you can pick up everything today straight from NewEgg.com.

 

hope that helps.

 

edit: okay, fixed it. still came in under $2700.

 

and before you start asking about VCOM SystemSuite, i've seen a number of tests to show that it's just as good or better than Norton System Works in a variety of tests. and it nets you a very good firewall, virus protection, and a bunch of other tools that are just plain out nice to have.

[Char Ell]

:king2:All hail the mighty stingerhs!!! :king2:

 

Hey man, that was a yeoman's job you did there. All I was really expecting was a "Yeah, you can do it for less than $2700" or "Nope, can't really do it. You're gonna hafta spend more dough."

 

OK. I'm going to look over your numbers with links (thank you very much) and see if this will work for me.

[TheOssusKeeper]

here is a link to Pricewatch.com...

http://www.pricewatch.com/

it's a search engine of sorts that will help find the lowests prices available for all sorts of pc parts...

 

here is a link i use sometimes for parts... they are not always the cheapest price around but sometimes they have some really good deals...

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Home.jsp

[stingerhs]

oh yeah, and i forgot to mention that i got you an SLI motherboard, so if you want to get a second GeForce 7800 GT, you'll have that option open to you. good luck man.

[Bob Lion54]

Running 2 video cards dosen't conflict or cause issues? (I've heard that wierd things can happen with a duel-prossesor. Or maybe I'm just thinking of certain things being incompatible with a "duely". If I understand correctly.)

 

If not, I might have to look into that.

[Killwithhonor]

heres a link, better than alien ware and u cant customize this stuff here u go, dont listen to anything else this is the best you can get!

http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/

[ChAiNz.2da]

Running 2 video cards dosen't conflict or cause issues?

If it's an SLI bridge enabled video card it won't conflict. They're built specifically for that reason

 

I have SLI bridged video cards on a dual processor setup and it runs like a dream... unfortunately, if the game/software isn't designed to accomodate it, you won't see any "miracle" performance hikes...

[Bob Lion54]

^^^^^

Ah. Thanks for the info. I was at best buy a few hours ago. Well, I figured I might as well check out the video cards. I saw a Geforce 7800 GT SLI for $499!!!!

 

And thats for 1!

 

By the way, do you need duel processors to run SLI?

 

Also what do you guys think of the GeForce 6800 GT Overclocked? Seems reasonably priced at $399.

Right now I have the GeForce 5600 FX at 256mb. Would I notice a hugh difference?

 

Oh, and by the way, one of the things I want to be able do is use the DVI capabilities of my monitor.

 

My card looks like the one on the left. My monitor , the one on the right.

Are they compatible? I've been looking into it, but my all I could figure out is my head hurt.

 

Sorry if I'm "hijacking" the thread, but I think(hope) these questions might help Hai Wan, too. That, and I'm thinking of an upgrade myself.

[ChAiNz.2da]

Nope, single GPU's will work fine for SLI bridging

 

The 6800 GT OC is a great card. I believe Achilles has one...

 

I'm using the GeForce 6800 Ultra PCI Express 512MB DDR3 cards (SLI Bridged) and they (of course) work much better than my system that has an old FX5200 Ultra in it...

 

Still though, my system is not the "norm"... I'm a professional video editor and my job pretty much requires having these specs. Dual processing of course will have it's advantages, as well as SLI bridging... but if your system is for gaming and the occasional word processing / typical computer uses... I'd advise to save your pennies and don't go overboard with unnecessary 'horsepower'...

 

The 6800 GT OC or ATI comparable (stingerhs would know what to suggest), some decent RAM and a single processor in the 2.0-3.0+ ghz range would be an ideal system with mega performance that anyone would drool over

[Bob Lion54]

AH crap! I was editing when you posted!

 

But cool , thanks for the info. Again!

[ChAiNz.2da]

AH crap! I was editing when you posted!

 

But cool , thanks for the info. Again!

DVI capability should be 'standard' with the 6800's, even my FX5200 works with dual monitor setups

 

You'll need a DVI to VGA (or vice versa) adapter to take advantage of the setup. Unless of course one of your monitors is VGA and the other is DVI... hehehe

[Bob Lion54]

Ok thanks again.

I think I'll have a good setup with the 6800. Just FYI, right now I have

Pentium 4 @ 3ghtz

1.2 gb ram

 

Sorry if I hijacked, but hopefully others will find the info usefull too.

[EmptyWords]

^^^^^

Ah. Thanks for the info. I was at best buy a few hours ago. Well, I figured I might as well check out the video cards. I saw a Geforce 7800 GT SLI for $499!!!!

 

And thats for 1!

 

By the way, do you need duel processors to run SLI?

 

Also what do you guys think of the GeForce 6800 GT Overclocked? Seems reasonably priced at $399.

Right now I have the GeForce 5600 FX at 256mb. Would I notice a hugh difference?

 

Oh, and by the way, one of the things I want to be able do is use the DVI capabilities of my monitor.

 

My card looks like the one on the left. My monitor , the one on the right.

Are they compatible? I've been looking into it, but my all I could figure out is my head hurt.

 

Sorry if I'm "hijacking" the thread, but I think(hope) these questions might help Hai Wan, too. That, and I'm thinking of an upgrade myself.

 

for 399 you can buy a damn 7800GT, noadays you can buy a 6800gt for around 250 even less sometimes

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

couldn't find a 10,000 RPM SATA HD

What about the WD Raptors (SATA 150)? Also, I'd recommend at least 600 watts for better stability, the 7-series eats up a lot of power.

DVI capability should be 'standard' with the 6800's, even my FX5200 works with dual monitor setups You'll need a DVI to VGA (or vice versa) adapter

I'd recommend getting a monitor that uses DVI though (the video cards come with the connectors anyway though), playing games in HD is awesome. For something like that, I'd recommend an LCD TV that doubles as a monitor, you can usually get them bigger for less money. For instance a Samsung 23.4" LCD monitor is around $800, but I got a 32" LCD TV for the same, which also functions at higher resolutions (up to 1920x1080), than the Samsung. Also, the ATi R230 isn't living up to the hype in most tests, it also comes with 16 pipelines, instead of 24 like the 7-series. But here are my recommended specs:

 

ABIT Fatal1ty A8N-SLI

AMD FX-55 San Diego

OCZ Dual-Channel Platinum (DDR-400, 2 Gb)

WD Raptor 10,000 RPM (74 Gb)

BFG Tech GeForce 6800 GT OC's (1 or 2)

Case (pick one, I'd recommend a Lian Li though)

 

It comes to $2103, plus whatever other accessories you may need (CD-DVD, monitor, OS).

[stingerhs]

Also, the ATi R230 isn't living up to the hype in most tests, it also comes with 16 pipelines, instead of 24 like the 7-series.Also, the ATi R230 isn't living up to the hype in most tests, it also comes with 16 pipelines, instead of 24 like the 7-series.

first, the R230 hasn't even been released yet, and we still don't have any word from ATI as to what the specs are. however, it is rumored that th R230 card is going to have a whopping 32 pixel pipelines combined with a 90 nanometer chip (a first for ATI). technically, that translates into a performance increase roughly equivalent to about 30-55% over the current ATI frontrunner, the RX850 XT.

 

and with the GF7800 GTX only giving about 20-40% better performance over the RX850 XT, the R230 is supposed to be about 10-15% better performance-wise than the GF7800 GTX. that doesn't sound like much (and it isn't), but it will probably give ATI the edge it needs to regain the market it lost by releasing the card months after the GF7800 GTX.

The 6800 GT OC or ATI comparable (stingerhs would know what to suggest), some decent RAM and a single processor in the 2.0-3.0+ ghz range would be an ideal system with mega performance that anyone would drool over

the ATI comparable would be the Radeon X800 XT. if you want something even faster, the Radeon X850 XT is also available (for a $150 upcharge).

 

and so you guys are aware, the ATI equivalent of the SLI configuration will be released soon. i forget what its called, but its supposed to allow both ATI cards to act like one unified card. its also supposed to effectively double the available pixel pipelines (in theory, anyway) since both cards will function as one unified card. the real benefit to this setup will come whenever graphics are fed in multi-threaded as you'll be able to render almost double the amount of polygons while getting the same speed. but until that day, performance gains are likely to be like the SLI setup: fairly modest at best.

 

hope that technical babble makes sense.

[Char Ell]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice!

 

@ChAiNz - I'm suffering from serious computer envy after your posting about your system specs

 

I'm definitely getting an SLI capable setup but I think I'm just going to go with one video card for now (financial constraints). If however (please let there be) KotOR 3 is coded such that it will be able to take full advantage of two vid cards in an SLI config...oooooo...ahhhhhh..... I would definitely buy the 2nd card for that!!!

 

*** Hai Wan crosses fingers and toes and wiggles his nose in hopes that his wish will come true***

[ChAiNz.2da]

I'd recommend getting a monitor that uses DVI though (the video cards come with the connectors anyway though), playing games in HD is awesome. For something like that, I'd recommend an LCD TV that doubles as a monitor

I definitely and completely agree

 

My 6800's are dual DVI's since my Apple cinema displays require them, but I also made sure my TV had monitor capabilty as well. You never know what will happen, so I like having options

 

question though. The 10,000rpm WD Raptors (SATA 150). Do they have to be configured in a RAID array? Or will they work with a PCI Express hook? Speeds like that remind me of the old SCSI days and the hours of cursing getting the damn RAID to work right... hehehe

 

@Hai Wan

hehehe... trust me, if it wasn't for my job... I wouldn't have half the system I have now (nor would really need it)...